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willget800
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Fuqua Scandal 30 Apr 2007, 11:40
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i think the professor ran the software program on all students essays..
and the software program looks for some "red flags" and then the prof goes and checks the red flags out..
atleast thats what the news article said somewhere.. i will try to dig it out..
these programs also work with softawre coding projects..
i dont know what those red flags were.. but some of them are answers directly from known websites, direct paragraphs reused from others..
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dabots
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Fuqua Scandal 30 Apr 2007, 11:57
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anybody think this will hurt apps next year? :wink:
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flapjack
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Fuqua Scandal 30 Apr 2007, 14:36
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dabots
anybody think this will hurt apps next year? :wink:
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Apps at Duke? Honestly, I think that the way that Duke Unversity threw the lacrosse players under the bus in the "fake rape" case hurt the entire university (including the business school) far more than this did.
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aaudetat
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Fuqua Scandal 30 Apr 2007, 14:44
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I hate to sound cynical, but I wonder if the cheating rates are much different from one school to the next.

We could assume - as others did - that at schools where teamwork is exulted and competition is minimized that students will feel less pressure to do so. Or that GND policies will also limit the urge to cheat. But I think that we're looking at a bunch of people who are used to high-stakes games and tend to focus much more on the ends than the means.

I am NOT saying that MBA students are bad people or anything like that. It just gets so easy to slowly cross those lines when you're working so hard to get the job done and do it right.
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pelihu
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Fuqua Scandal 30 Apr 2007, 15:09
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I tend to agree that the same sort of thing could happen at almost any school. I wonder what the nature of the cheating was - whether it was blatant or whether it was a misunderstanding. If it was something that happens all the time, then I fell bad for the unfortunate people caught up in it. If it was blatant, then I think it's terrible that these people tried to gain an advantage over their fellow students by cheating.

I think that potentially, it could affect applications and yield for a year or two to come. Some people might not apply because they don't want to be associated with the incident, and some people might be pushed to peer schools that they liked similarly.
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amorica
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Fuqua Scandal 30 Apr 2007, 15:25
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a little more info here..

https://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/568763.html

looks like the students were meeting in groups on a take home test..

34 students does seem like a lot, but there over 400 students in the class...so thankfully for the school it looks like a small minority...
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Fuqua Scandal 30 Apr 2007, 16:19
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amorica
a little more info here..

https://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/568763.html

looks like the students were meeting in groups on a take home test..

34 students does seem like a lot, but there over 400 students in the class...so thankfully for the school it looks like a small minority...
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Those students should incur harsh penalties. What made them think they were entitled to collaborate while the others in the class followed the rules and worked on their own? It's not like they were bouncing ideas off each other for a paper. Working together in a group on an essay final an egregious violation of the rules.

I know that some top schools have a Grade Nondisclosure policy. However, I have to assume that Duke must not have one, meaning that grades are very important to the students.

I actually think that 34 students cheating out of a class of 400 is a lot of people.
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died4me
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Fuqua Scandal Updated on: 01 May 2007, 07:53
Originally posted by died4me on 30 Apr 2007, 18:12.
Last edited by died4me on 01 May 2007, 07:53, edited 1 time in total.
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on another side, I think it is positive that Duke reinforced the Honor Code.

More than 50% MBA students said that they have cheated. We all know that the cheating is not rare for any school.

It is very unfortunate that this many folks commited this ugly crime, but I am glad that the professor didn't keep his mouth shut and raised a red flag!

I am trying to see some positive sides from this ugly incident.


GO FUQUA! ( of course, I am biased :lol: )
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rustmonster
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Fuqua Scandal 30 Apr 2007, 18:22
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flapjack
I actually think that 34 students cheating out of a class of 400 is a lot of people.
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I agree, and two additional observations seem to me reasonable to make:

1). It is unlikely that all 34 people got caught the first time they had cheated, so it is likely they had cheated before.

2). It is unlikely that everyone who cheated, in fact, got caught, so it is likely that more than 34 students in the first year class cheated this year at Fuqua.

If #1 is false, it implies that these 34 just had terribly bad luck to get caught the first time they cheated.

If #2 is false, it implies Fuqua either got very lucky or has a great detection system. I doubt, though, that any business school would contend that it catches every cheater.

I tend to think #1 and #2 are both true, particularly in light of the recent Business Week article indicating that 50+ percent of MBA students admitted cheating. That strikes me as an incredible, even disheartening, figure. I'm too paranoid to cheat.

PS This is not to single out Duke. It probably happens everywhere. Duke is, in fact, to be commended in my opinion for bringing down the hammer despite the bad press it would bring.
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Fuqua Scandal 30 Apr 2007, 19:46
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Another article on the whole thing...no new information really.

https://www.businessweek.com/bschools/co ... index+page
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lepium
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Fuqua Scandal 30 Apr 2007, 20:15
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I think the kids mentioned in this post:

https://www.gmatclub.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=45107

Are the ones who later on grow up to cheating at B-school (well, some of them do, others win Nobel prizes, etc.).

I think it's an attitude issue. If you are mature enough you'll figure out that you'll learn the most by avoiding shortcuts. I honestly can't figure out why someone would cheat in B-school. Maybe in high-school/junior college you are still a teenager, trying to figure your personality out. But B-school? C'mon, people, we're supposed to be grown ups here!

L.
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amorica
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Fuqua Scandal 30 Apr 2007, 21:32
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what happens to the students who are expelled?..

thats got to be a rough position..you gave up your job,income,etc. to attend fuqua..you cheat...get expelled. I would imagine the tuition is non-refundable..

what do you do?...try and find a job? How do you explain to employers why you are not in school anymore?..

I wonder if they will try an pursue an MBA elsewhere?..

What if an international student was expelled? I wonder if they would go back to their native country..

Tough situation all around...
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Fuqua Scandal 01 May 2007, 01:47
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amorica - tough situation indeed, but one of their own making.

Duke's chat about having a solid ethics code and this being an example of it is pure spin. Duke busted near 10% of the class for cheating in various forms. They busted 2% for such a gross misconduct of cheating that they have kicked them out of school, and nearly a further 4% badly enough to suspend them (which, in fairness, could be as good as expelling them due to financial issues).

To claim then that this is an example of ethics is just facetalk. Any school which experienced significant levels of cheating would act the same - Grad school isn't a bought degree, and all Universities have standards they must maintain. The school tried to keep this as quiet as possible (without blocking anything due to information laws), and it has very slowly become a international story as people have found it out - this is a story from several months ago. Duke is that keen to be open about its ethics policy.

In all, Duke has a problem either with a course structure or a group of students. Good that the school busted them, but to try and claim this all proves how keen and open they are about ethics that they kept it as quiet as possible through admissions season? Not convinced.
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Fuqua Scandal 01 May 2007, 04:57
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3underscore
amorica - tough situation indeed, but one of their own making.

Duke's chat about having a solid ethics code and this being an example of it is pure spin. Duke busted near 10% of the class for cheating in various forms. They busted 2% for such a gross misconduct of cheating that they have kicked them out of school, and nearly a further 4% badly enough to suspend them (which, in fairness, could be as good as expelling them due to financial issues).

To claim then that this is an example of ethics is just facetalk. Any school which experienced significant levels of cheating would act the same - Grad school isn't a bought degree, and all Universities have standards they must maintain. The school tried to keep this as quiet as possible (without blocking anything due to information laws), and it has very slowly become a international story as people have found it out - this is a story from several months ago. Duke is that keen to be open about its ethics policy.

In all, Duke has a problem either with a course structure or a group of students. Good that the school busted them, but to try and claim this all proves how keen and open they are about ethics that they kept it as quiet as possible through admissions season? Not convinced.
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I give them credit for their handling. I don't think that all top b-schools would have the guts to essentially expel nearly 10% of a class. I really don't...
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lhotseface
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Fuqua Scandal 01 May 2007, 09:51
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Spare a thought for people like us..who spend 12-14 months to get in to a school that they were truly excited about. I am so annoyed that a bunch of bad apples ruined it for everyone else. I even gave up a fellowship at UCLA to attend Duke.
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dukes
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Fuqua Scandal 01 May 2007, 09:58
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lhotseface
Spare a thought for people like us..who spend 12-14 months to get in to a school that they were truly excited about. I am so annoyed that a bunch of bad apples ruined it for everyone else. I even gave up a fellowship at UCLA to attend Duke.
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Lhotseface, I'm sure its no fun to have your school end up in the news like this and I can see how it may take a little away from the excitement you had when you first got in, but I seriously doubt that it will impact you in a significant way. B-schools tend to be competitive with each other and people who are bad-mouthing now would be bad-mouthing regardless of the circumstances. I'm sure it will blow over very soon and the things that made you chose Duke over UCLA will be just as valid when you graduate as they were when you made your decision.
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johnnyx9
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Fuqua Scandal 01 May 2007, 10:45
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I agree, I don't think this is really a negative for the school. I think it shows that the school takes their honor code seriously. It shows recruiters that Fuqua takes ethics very seriously.
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pelihu
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Fuqua Scandal 01 May 2007, 11:36
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I don't think it's a poor reflection on the school; I agree that it shows they take their honor code seriously. I do believe that it could have a negative impact on their image and their ability to attract students for a few years. Applicants that are on the fence who are considering a few comparable offers might just decide that they don't want to be associated with the scandal. If you're a Duke student or alum, then you obviously stick up for your school. But if you're just thinking about applying, or considering multiple offers, you might just decide it's not worth it.

The quality of instruction and the quality of the school will not be affected, I'd guess application volume and yield might be somewhat lower for a year or two. Probably no impact on the long-term reputation of the school.
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09App
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Fuqua Scandal 01 May 2007, 21:06
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Does Duke have grade non-disclosure for recruiting? If they do, this is even more shocking.
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3underscore
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Fuqua Scandal 02 May 2007, 02:29
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I really can't believe that people think any top Grad School would just breeze along in a position where 10% of the student body have been clearly involved in cheating (they won't have charged them without being pretty certain).

That some people believe Duke come out looking good from this as they kicked people out like they should is absurd.

"Value their honor code" - so they should. That is why they have the thing. It isn't on pink paper with frills on just to seem ethical.
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