So, as I see it, this is probably the most important aspect to successful recruiting. Etiquette includes not just manners when you sit down at dinner, but also how you act at company presentations, how you behave at events, and perhaps most importantly how you interact with fellow students. So, let's try to look at each step of the recruiting process. Your first encounter with firms that recruit on campus will probably be at a company briefing or presentation. (note: I met some students from Fuqua and they had their Week on Wall Street at the start of recruiting season before any briefings, while we had our Week on Wall Street as the last event of recruiting season). Early on in the recruiting season, many events will be overflowing with students. The first recruiter on campus this last fall was Lehman Brothers, and I'd say about 150 people (about 1/2 our class) attended; later in the fall, there were 50-70 people that were really interested in banking. Someone from Wharton told me they had 4-500 people at some IB briefings. The key thing to remember at this early stage is to not do anything that gets you thrown off the list. Firms usually brought lots of people for networking after the general presentation, and a lot of students felt the inclination to charge up after the presentation and pepper the representatives with questions. I'll just say that I don't think there is anything that you can possibly do at this stage to help you. Students that were really aggressive only succeeded in hurting themselves. My strategy was generally to hang back, have a drink or something to eat while people rushed up and surrounded the firm representatives, and then after the crowd started to thin I approached 1 or 2 people I thought I could connect with and tried to have a few words with them. Trying to talk to every single firm representative probably isn't a good strategy. I'd always try to follow up with a thank you email that would help them remember me. This is a two step process. First, you need to say something during the original conversation that they might remember. Second, you need to reference that in your email. But you need to do it all without coming across as being too pushy or aggressive. So, try to find some things in your background that are hooks that will help people remember you. So for me, I was a lawyer working in real estate and CMBS, I was an entrepreneur working with factories in China and I collect wine. I tried to speak with representatives that had similar backgrounds, and most of all I didn't offer up any information until prompted. Again, don't be pushy. After the event, send an email thanking the people that you spoke with. Many times firms will provide a list of people attending an event; otherwise try to get a business card from the people that you spoke with. Don't rush back to your computer/blackberry and shoot of emails. I actually had a chuckle with a banker who was laughing about a thank you email that hit his blackberry 30 minutes after a conversation. Wait until the next day, after they have had a chance to get back to their offices. Now might be a good time to talk about interacting with fellow students. Nobody likes pushy classmates at recruiting events. People with sharp elbows definitely didn't do well during recruiting. People that shoved their way into groups and tried to take over conversations were not invited to subsequent events. Firms absolutely definitely notice when people are too pushy, and they don't like it. I have many many examples of people who are plenty smart but just didn't have any self-awareness and ended up making no closed lists. I suggest supporting your fellow classmates, introducing them recruiters if you are able, and complimenting them if you are able. The dynamic will vary at each school, so you'll each have to judge for yourselves. Darden tends to be very collaborative, and those students that displayed teamwork during recruiting did the best; and those students that were most selfish did the worst. I found that recruiters really responded positively when I told them I had a great learning team and that I really gained a lot from working with them; and they were visibly turned off by people who were know-it-alls and discounted their classmates. Also keep in mind that firms are always watching. When you are moving between groups or just taking a break at an event, don't stand off in the corner by yourself. Even if they don't note this overtly, they will start to notice as they get to know you. Try to engage other students while you grab a drink or some food. Firms will also notice is your fellow students drop their heads in annoyance as you approach - yet another reason to make nice with your fellow classmates. After the initial presentation, many firms will host some open invite events for all students - usually for cocktails or something like that. There are some basic suggestions for these types of events. Hold your drink in your left hand; that way your right hand won't be wet and icy cold when you need to shake hands. Dress appropriately for each event. Refer back to part 2 for details, but the basic thing to remember is that you should never be remembered for what you wore. So, don't be the only one in jeans, but also don't be the only one in a suit, and definitely don't be flashy. Watch your breath - it's pretty basic but I got a tip from a 2Y to always carry some mints or gum just in case. Don't drink too much, obviously. It's definitely a good idea to have a few memorable conversations with firm representatives at this point, because they are about to start cutting. A little self effacing humor is a great tool. Tooting your own horn too much is not. At this point, if firms return, they will start doing invite-only events. Some firms do just one invite only event while others will do 3-4. It may be cocktails, but more likely it will be dinner. We also had things like golf and wine-tastings. My best suggestion is to start working on dinner etiquette skills as soon as you can so you are comfortable when the situation arises. If you are uncomfortable and thinking about how to eat and drink, you definitely won't be at your social best - so practice. Eat with your mouth shut; this should really go unsaid, but it seems to be tremendously challenging for some people. Practice, now, every day. Your bread plate is on your left, your water is on your right. BMW (bread, meal, water from left to right) is a good way to remember. Don't be the guy that uses the wrong plate or drinks from the wrong glass and makes everyone have to pass stuff around the table; that sucks. If you get butter for your bread, use your knife and take some butter and put it on your own plate. Do not butter your entire roll all at once. Tear off a bite-sized piece of bread, butter that from the butter already on your plate, and eat. After you have used a utensil, do not put it back on the table. After you use your butter knife, put it on your plate. Don't plank your knife (lean it on the plate onto the table), or any utensils for that matter; place the whole thing on the edge of your plate. When you use your utensils, start from the outside in; the if the restaurant is any good they will take away utensils you don't need, and add ones you do as you proceed through your meal. In the US, you should hold your fork in your left hand and cut with the knife in your right hand, then switch your fork to your right hand to deliver food to your mouth. Generally, you don't want to 'point-and-shoot' by keeping the fork in your left hand to deliver food to your mouth. Only cut with your knife, no matter how soft the food is. Don't use your fork to cut any food, even if it is fish or anything like that, use your knife. Cut off a single bit at a time. Do not cut up your entire meal all at once. I'd also recommend taking really small bites when you are at recruiting dinner because you want to be able to respond to questions without choking on your food. Try to order as many courses as everyone else is ordering. You don't want to be the only one to order an appetizer while everyone else watches you eat; but you also don't want to be the only one that doesn't have soup while everyone else is eating. It may be obvious, but don't order the most expensive thing on the menu, and don't order anything that is market price. Unless you are at a rib joint, don't order ribs or anything you have to eat with your hands. Unless you are very comfortable at the table, don't order anything with messy sauces (like spaghetti). If you are at a loss, ask your host for a suggestion. These are just basic tips, but I'd definitely suggest picking up some kind of etiquette manual and getting in plenty of table manners practice before recruiting begins. The people that were most comfortable with this definitely did better during recruiting. So, that's what I can think of for now. It's really a combination of knowing what to do, and also being comfortable in each setting. Don't just read a book though; practice, practice, practice. I'm interested to hear comments from people at other schools and looking at other industries, and I'll try to add stuff as I think of it. links to parts 1 & 2 https://gmatclub.com/forum/guide-to-recruiting-and-schmoozing-part-58003.html https://gmatclub.com/forum/guide-to-recruiting-and-schmoozing-part-2-what-to-wear-58068.html

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Guide to Recruiting and Schmoozing - Part 3 - Etiquette

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pelihu

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06 Feb 2008, 14:22

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kryzak

Question for peli, what if you're left handed? Do you cut with your left and hold the fork in the right hand, then switch to eat with the left?

No changes if you are left handed. Still cut with the fork in your left hand and knife in the right hand. I think this even applies to the European style.

kryzak

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06 Feb 2008, 14:34

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pelihu

No changes if you are left handed. Still cut with the fork in your left hand and knife in the right hand. I think this even applies to the European style.

yes, but which hand would you eat with using the fork? I'm just wondering if all lefties have to learn how to eat with their right hand (using the fork or spoon) to be "proper".

pelihu

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06 Feb 2008, 15:05

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Yeah, the correct way is still to switch the fork back to the right hand when putting food to mouth.

kryzak

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06 Feb 2008, 15:33

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wow, sucks to be a lefty...

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06 Feb 2008, 15:46

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kryzak

wow, sucks to be a lefty...

No, you still have to chew... no sucking allowed :lol:

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07 Feb 2008, 11:14

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thats super duper post. Thanks alot. I regret, that I haven't read it earlier. Everything wtitten here is absolute true.

djhouse81

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11 Feb 2008, 12:18

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As always, Pelihu, a post of substance. I look forward to sitting down putting each Part of your Guide into action soon enough.

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20 Feb 2008, 10:46

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Oh, and Peli, what about not eating until the recruiter starts? People tend to take that cue from the recruiter, though it can be awkward if the recruiter's chatting away and we're all thinking about our cooling salmon!

Definitely agree with that. There's generally someone from the firm that's in charge, generally the most senior person there. It's a good idea to wait until they start before digging in. Perhaps even more important, you should definitely wait until everyone at the table has been served before starting.

Great stuff pel & aaudetat.

Quick question, how does bread factor into "Don't start eating until the most senior person starts eating?"
I guess the safest bet is to just not eat bread.

As for waiting until everyone is served, that's just common courtesy. I'm not even close to being a recruiter, but it annoys me when people dig in before everyone's been served. Though the better restaurants wouldn't dare bring out the meals one at a time.

pelihu

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20 Feb 2008, 16:24

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Actually, the subject of bread is a pet peeve. In almost all cases, the bread basket is meant to be passed. So, if they set down a basket of bread in front of you, by all means go ahead and take one, but pick up the basket and pass it to the person next to you. Don't just grab some bread and leave the basket sitting in front of you. That just forces someone to ask you to pass the bread or to reach. If you want to be extra-courteous, wait until the bread has made it all the way around before digging in.

And while we're on the subject of bread, let's review. Bread plate on the left. If you want butter, use your butter knife and move a chunk to your plate (then pass the butter). Tear off a bite-sized piece of bread. Butter just that bite-sized piece. Consume. Do not break open your roll and butter the whole thing and don't tear pieces off your roll with your mouth.

branson

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21 Feb 2008, 03:44

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pelihu

... and don't tear pieces off your roll with your mouth.

hahahahaaha! legendary!

...although that would be so much fun...

We have theme-restaurant here in Munich in a cellar that used to be a tavern in medieval times. You only get a knife (and your hands) to eat, women have to serve the men beer etc. This could help blow off some steam after all these recruiting events. Making a mental note to book that should I be back here some day.

kidderek

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21 Feb 2008, 11:13

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pelihu

And while we're on the subject of bread, let's review. Bread plate on the left. If you want butter, use your butter knife and move a chunk to your plate (then pass the butter). Tear off a bite-sized piece of bread. Butter just that bite-sized piece. Consume. Do not break open your roll and butter the whole thing and don't tear pieces off your roll with your mouth.

I usually don't eat the bread, but I think I've broken all the bread rules -- reach into the basket, never passing it; buttering the entire bread, and setting it in the middle; tearing at it with my mouth like a lion on its prey. hahahaha

vinviper

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22 Feb 2008, 10:23

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Good tips! Thanks!

[quote="togafoot"][quote="pelihu"] Don't use your fork to cut any food, even if it is fish or anything like that, use your knife. Cut off a single bit at a time.[/quote]

All good stuff. Kudos!!!

A few other pointers :- Generally you should get a knife wish is specifically for fish, if you have ordered a fish dish....

Also here are tips for Chinese/Japanese cuisine (in case you are taken out to those style of restaurants).

[b]BOTH[/b]
Don't stick your chopsticks in the rice so that they are pointed out. putting sticks into rice is something that is done at funerals.
ALways put your chopsticks onto the chopstick holder after you have finished the current dish.

[b]Chinese[/b]
Food is usually shared. It's not 1 plate each, it's usually a set of dishes in the middle. Don't grab a plate and park it by yourself. You can ask someone on the other side of the table to pass the plate over, grab what you want and pass it back.
When pouring tea. Always pour your own tea last. It should be poured in the order of most senior to least senior (usually oldest to youngest) and yourself last.
Scooping rice into your mouth directly from the bowl is acceptable

[b]Japanese[/b]
Don't pass food from chopstick to chopstick.
Always fill up the drinks of everyone around you. Never fill your own up, someone else should do that for you. If you don't want to drink anymore, leave your glass full!
Common plates need to have individual chopsticks or spoon for you to take the food. Never use your own chopsticks
If handling raw meat (e.g. Yakiniku/ shabu shabu or Nabe) and no extra chopsticks have been provided. Use the opposite end of the chopstick to grab the meat to cook.
Japanese rice is usually sticky. Do not scoop the rice into your mouth, You need to pick it up in clumps.

[b]Business Card etiquette[/b]
Accept the card with BOTH hands and look at it. Put it on the table to your right hand side. NEVER put it into your pocket. Always put it into your wallet or into a business card holder afterwards.
When offering business cards, always offer it with the native language of the recipient faced upwards.[/quote]

ishcabibble

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23 Feb 2008, 14:55

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Last week they had an etiquette dinner here for MBA students with a business etiquette consultant to teach everyone these very things! Although I didn't go, I did talk to a couple of people who did and one of the strange things that they said that the instructor said was to always to pass the salt and pepper together. I had never heard of this before. Have any of you?

aaudetat

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23 Feb 2008, 15:44

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ishcabibble

Oh, absolutely. That's one of the "rules"...it's all so arbitrary. If someone says, "Please pass the salt," you grab 'em both and pass them on.

GMATforFal08

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23 Feb 2008, 16:36

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ishcabibble

Oh, absolutely. That's one of the "rules"...it's all so arbitrary. If someone says, "Please pass the salt," you grab 'em both and pass them on.

And don't forget -- not only must you pass them together, but you always have to put them down on the table -- never hand them to someone directly.

branson

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24 Feb 2008, 09:48

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Ahhhh...business school...finally a place where I HAVE to grow up...

aaudetat

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24 Feb 2008, 09:52

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branson

Ahhhh...business school...finally a place where I HAVE to grow up...

You don't have to actually grow up, you just need to be able to act like it for a few hours at a time here and there.

branson

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25 Feb 2008, 02:36

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Thanks aau.
That perspective helps and I will think of it that way.
I DO want my friends to still speak with me post-MBA

togafoot

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25 Feb 2008, 16:13

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What are the rules when eating at a table with a carousel in the middle?

westsider

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25 Feb 2008, 16:28

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togafoot

What are the rules when eating at a table with a carousel in the middle?

Don't attend a recruiting dinner held at a carnival? :-D

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