So, as I see it, this is probably the most important aspect to successful recruiting. Etiquette includes not just manners when you sit down at dinner, but also how you act at company presentations, how you behave at events, and perhaps most importantly how you interact with fellow students. So, let's try to look at each step of the recruiting process. Your first encounter with firms that recruit on campus will probably be at a company briefing or presentation. (note: I met some students from Fuqua and they had their Week on Wall Street at the start of recruiting season before any briefings, while we had our Week on Wall Street as the last event of recruiting season). Early on in the recruiting season, many events will be overflowing with students. The first recruiter on campus this last fall was Lehman Brothers, and I'd say about 150 people (about 1/2 our class) attended; later in the fall, there were 50-70 people that were really interested in banking. Someone from Wharton told me they had 4-500 people at some IB briefings. The key thing to remember at this early stage is to not do anything that gets you thrown off the list. Firms usually brought lots of people for networking after the general presentation, and a lot of students felt the inclination to charge up after the presentation and pepper the representatives with questions. I'll just say that I don't think there is anything that you can possibly do at this stage to help you. Students that were really aggressive only succeeded in hurting themselves. My strategy was generally to hang back, have a drink or something to eat while people rushed up and surrounded the firm representatives, and then after the crowd started to thin I approached 1 or 2 people I thought I could connect with and tried to have a few words with them. Trying to talk to every single firm representative probably isn't a good strategy. I'd always try to follow up with a thank you email that would help them remember me. This is a two step process. First, you need to say something during the original conversation that they might remember. Second, you need to reference that in your email. But you need to do it all without coming across as being too pushy or aggressive. So, try to find some things in your background that are hooks that will help people remember you. So for me, I was a lawyer working in real estate and CMBS, I was an entrepreneur working with factories in China and I collect wine. I tried to speak with representatives that had similar backgrounds, and most of all I didn't offer up any information until prompted. Again, don't be pushy. After the event, send an email thanking the people that you spoke with. Many times firms will provide a list of people attending an event; otherwise try to get a business card from the people that you spoke with. Don't rush back to your computer/blackberry and shoot of emails. I actually had a chuckle with a banker who was laughing about a thank you email that hit his blackberry 30 minutes after a conversation. Wait until the next day, after they have had a chance to get back to their offices. Now might be a good time to talk about interacting with fellow students. Nobody likes pushy classmates at recruiting events. People with sharp elbows definitely didn't do well during recruiting. People that shoved their way into groups and tried to take over conversations were not invited to subsequent events. Firms absolutely definitely notice when people are too pushy, and they don't like it. I have many many examples of people who are plenty smart but just didn't have any self-awareness and ended up making no closed lists. I suggest supporting your fellow classmates, introducing them recruiters if you are able, and complimenting them if you are able. The dynamic will vary at each school, so you'll each have to judge for yourselves. Darden tends to be very collaborative, and those students that displayed teamwork during recruiting did the best; and those students that were most selfish did the worst. I found that recruiters really responded positively when I told them I had a great learning team and that I really gained a lot from working with them; and they were visibly turned off by people who were know-it-alls and discounted their classmates. Also keep in mind that firms are always watching. When you are moving between groups or just taking a break at an event, don't stand off in the corner by yourself. Even if they don't note this overtly, they will start to notice as they get to know you. Try to engage other students while you grab a drink or some food. Firms will also notice is your fellow students drop their heads in annoyance as you approach - yet another reason to make nice with your fellow classmates. After the initial presentation, many firms will host some open invite events for all students - usually for cocktails or something like that. There are some basic suggestions for these types of events. Hold your drink in your left hand; that way your right hand won't be wet and icy cold when you need to shake hands. Dress appropriately for each event. Refer back to part 2 for details, but the basic thing to remember is that you should never be remembered for what you wore. So, don't be the only one in jeans, but also don't be the only one in a suit, and definitely don't be flashy. Watch your breath - it's pretty basic but I got a tip from a 2Y to always carry some mints or gum just in case. Don't drink too much, obviously. It's definitely a good idea to have a few memorable conversations with firm representatives at this point, because they are about to start cutting. A little self effacing humor is a great tool. Tooting your own horn too much is not. At this point, if firms return, they will start doing invite-only events. Some firms do just one invite only event while others will do 3-4. It may be cocktails, but more likely it will be dinner. We also had things like golf and wine-tastings. My best suggestion is to start working on dinner etiquette skills as soon as you can so you are comfortable when the situation arises. If you are uncomfortable and thinking about how to eat and drink, you definitely won't be at your social best - so practice. Eat with your mouth shut; this should really go unsaid, but it seems to be tremendously challenging for some people. Practice, now, every day. Your bread plate is on your left, your water is on your right. BMW (bread, meal, water from left to right) is a good way to remember. Don't be the guy that uses the wrong plate or drinks from the wrong glass and makes everyone have to pass stuff around the table; that sucks. If you get butter for your bread, use your knife and take some butter and put it on your own plate. Do not butter your entire roll all at once. Tear off a bite-sized piece of bread, butter that from the butter already on your plate, and eat. After you have used a utensil, do not put it back on the table. After you use your butter knife, put it on your plate. Don't plank your knife (lean it on the plate onto the table), or any utensils for that matter; place the whole thing on the edge of your plate. When you use your utensils, start from the outside in; the if the restaurant is any good they will take away utensils you don't need, and add ones you do as you proceed through your meal. In the US, you should hold your fork in your left hand and cut with the knife in your right hand, then switch your fork to your right hand to deliver food to your mouth. Generally, you don't want to 'point-and-shoot' by keeping the fork in your left hand to deliver food to your mouth. Only cut with your knife, no matter how soft the food is. Don't use your fork to cut any food, even if it is fish or anything like that, use your knife. Cut off a single bit at a time. Do not cut up your entire meal all at once. I'd also recommend taking really small bites when you are at recruiting dinner because you want to be able to respond to questions without choking on your food. Try to order as many courses as everyone else is ordering. You don't want to be the only one to order an appetizer while everyone else watches you eat; but you also don't want to be the only one that doesn't have soup while everyone else is eating. It may be obvious, but don't order the most expensive thing on the menu, and don't order anything that is market price. Unless you are at a rib joint, don't order ribs or anything you have to eat with your hands. Unless you are very comfortable at the table, don't order anything with messy sauces (like spaghetti). If you are at a loss, ask your host for a suggestion. These are just basic tips, but I'd definitely suggest picking up some kind of etiquette manual and getting in plenty of table manners practice before recruiting begins. The people that were most comfortable with this definitely did better during recruiting. So, that's what I can think of for now. It's really a combination of knowing what to do, and also being comfortable in each setting. Don't just read a book though; practice, practice, practice. I'm interested to hear comments from people at other schools and looking at other industries, and I'll try to add stuff as I think of it. links to parts 1 & 2 https://gmatclub.com/forum/guide-to-recruiting-and-schmoozing-part-58003.html https://gmatclub.com/forum/guide-to-recruiting-and-schmoozing-part-2-what-to-wear-58068.html

I'm a European lefty, and I have to admit that I never bothered learning to cut with my right hand. In some very posh circles what I do might be considered rude, but all in all I've almost never had any remarks. If I have any problems in the US, I'll blame the cultural differences I would like to thank pelihu for providing such a deep insight on US etiquette. I was aware of all the points that he made, except the point and shoot one: I thought I misread the first time I read that passage! I didn't even know that people did that. Talk about cultural differences... (Far Eastern etiquette must be even worse). I would like to ask a question though: the points that pelihu makes, are they rigorously applied in every circumstance in the US, or is that in an ideal world? For example, putting the butter on your plate first is something you should do, but that I don't bother doing unless I'm having dinner for the first time with my step-family What about business dinners? Thanks for the insight!

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Guide to Recruiting and Schmoozing - Part 3 - Etiquette

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gmatclb

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06 Mar 2008, 07:59

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pelihu

I was invited to dinner with a firm (we'll call it firm A) on Monday night. On Tuesday night, I had dinner with another firm B (both would be considered among the 3 most popular for this year) and the person I sat next to asked what I did the night before. I told them I had dinner with Firm A and he responded, oh yeah, you sat next to such and such. How was that?

Don't you think that was too much information to give up? I don't think you should lie, but when the recruiter asks you what you did the night before.... I would just say that I attended a recruiting event and leave it at that. If they want to probe more information, then I'll tell them....

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06 Mar 2008, 09:48

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The thing is, they already knew what I was doing the night before. What I wanted to point out was that word travels amazingly fast around wall street firms. If you go around telling a firm they are your top choice, other firms will definitely know about it as well. Top firms will definitely target the same candidates, but you should always be aware that whatever you do will get around quickly. If you are an ass at a recruiting event, you probably killed yourself not just at one firm, but a whole bunch of them.

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06 Mar 2008, 18:29

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Sounds almost like a game of poker.

You tell them the truth, but you hold your cards close to your chest and only reveal your hand at the end of the game.

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Regarding table manners, I actually think this is very very important. Of course not everyone has great manners but many of the higher level executives have been to many formal dinners so chances are high that you may come across one that is a stickler. And I'll admit, although I'm not a high level exec at a major firm, I'm a bit of a stickler so watching someone make egregious errors makes me cringe a bit inside.

There are many nuances to table manners and you don't need to follow them all but here are some basics:

1) your bread plate is always to your left. don't grab the one on your right because you will screw things up (especially if the table is round). If you forget, just wait until you see other people use their plates.

2) don't put butter on the entire piece of bread and eat it like a sandwich. you need to tear off a bite sized piece, butter it, and then eat it...and repeat.

3) always offer the bread to others before you eat it yourself.

4) left hand is for the fork, right hand is for the knife...cut meat, then switch off so your right hand has the fork. eat. cut only one bite sized piece at a time. yes, if you are European, you do not need to switch and i know that but you may come across an executive who doesn't know that and ironically thinks you're the one who is misinformed so play it safe. if you are left handed, you can do everything with the opposite hand. when cutting, your left hand should hold the fork with your index finger pointed down. don't grab the fork with your fist. also, hold your fork right side up. i really dislike it when a person holds their fork backwards (the concave/convex part)...it's rare but i see mistakes in this sometimes. Also...utensils are outside in and the top ones are for dessert.

5) if you need to rest your utensils, put them on your plate so that the dirty part does not go back onto the tablecloth. when they take your plate, they will take your utensils for that course so you don't need them.

6) when leaving your table to go to a restroom, etc...move your napkin from your lap to your chair. Don't put your dirty napkin on the table.

7) Water glass goes on the right side. Don't order alcohol unless the executive offers it first.

8) Don't get too weird and picky about your food "e.g. I want my steak done medium rare but slightly on the rare side but the outside burnt and partially butterflied but not so that the butterflied opening is chared, etc.". If you are vegetarian, just order something that you can eat from the menu. If the menu does not have anything for vegetarians, ask the waiter and they will almost always make a "grilled vegetable" plate for you.

9) Don't order messy stuff like baby back ribs, spaghetti, pizza, etc...unless you're in that kind of restaurant where this is the main feature.

10) If you get wine, the executive will usually order but if he/she asks you to order and you really feel like ordering, find something midrange (in terms of taste and price). I generally stick with a pinot noir at $80 or so but sometimes will ask if the other person is more in the mood for a shirah or cabernet sauvignon. I usually don't order white (usually stick with chardonnay or sauvignon blanc) unless I know the other person prefers it.

RVD.

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28 Mar 2008, 09:00

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RVD

1) your bread plate is always to your left. don't grab the one on your right because you will screw things up (especially if the table is round). If you forget, just wait until you see other people use their plates.

7) Water glass goes on the right side. Don't order alcohol unless the executive offers it first.

RVD.

A good tip: if you forget, just make little "b" and "d" signs with your hands buy forming a circle with your thumb and index fingers. Your "B" will be on your left hand (bread) and your "D" will be on your right hand (drink).

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28 Mar 2008, 10:24

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my biggest issue with that is I always go: "Is it bread and drink or beverage and dinner roll?"

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15 May 2008, 06:18

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GMATforFal08

my biggest issue with that is I always go: "Is it bread and drink or beverage and dinner roll?"

i wish i ignored your post, now i will be confused too :/

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GMATforFal08

my biggest issue with that is I always go: "Is it bread and drink or beverage and dinner roll?"

i wish i ignored your post, now i will be confused too :/

I won't say where I heard this so that I don't embarrass myself (okay, it was the John Tesh show), but you should think BMW - bread, meal, water. I haven't forgotten since (and I don't have to use my hands).

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22 May 2008, 23:45

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wow, sucks to be a lefty...

I'm a European lefty, and I have to admit that I never bothered learning to cut with my right hand. In some very posh circles what I do might be considered rude, but all in all I've almost never had any remarks. If I have any problems in the US, I'll blame the cultural differences

I would like to thank pelihu for providing such a deep insight on US etiquette. I was aware of all the points that he made, except the point and shoot one: I thought I misread the first time I read that passage! :lol:

I didn't even know that people did that. Talk about cultural differences... (Far Eastern etiquette must be even worse).

I would like to ask a question though: the points that pelihu makes, are they rigorously applied in every circumstance in the US, or is that in an ideal world? For example, putting the butter on your plate first is something you should do, but that I don't bother doing unless I'm having dinner for the first time with my step-family

What about business dinners?

Thanks for the insight!

Audio

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22 May 2008, 23:51

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kryzak

Question for peli, what if you're left handed? Do you cut with your left and hold the fork in the right hand, then switch to eat with the left?

No changes if you are left handed. Still cut with the fork in your left hand and knife in the right hand. I think this even applies to the European style.

The "even" made me laugh :-D

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22 May 2008, 23:54

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RVD

Eating must sometimes be a pretty stressful experience for you! :-D

Kudos though for your insightful post.

suntaurian

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02 Jun 2009, 12:36

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Awesome article !!..Every b-school grad should read this. Thanks Pelihu.

xenok

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02 Jun 2009, 16:55

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4) left hand is for the fork, right hand is for the knife...cut meat, then switch off so your right hand has the fork. eat. cut only one bite sized piece at a time. yes, if you are European, you do not need to switch and i know that but you may come across an executive who doesn't know that and ironically thinks you're the one who is misinformed so play it safe. if you are left handed, you can do everything with the opposite hand. when cutting, your left hand should hold the fork with your index finger pointed down. don't grab the fork with your fist. also, hold your fork right side up. i really dislike it when a person holds their fork backwards (the concave/convex part)...it's rare but i see mistakes in this sometimes. Also...utensils are outside in and the top ones are for dessert.

I don't know exactly what you mean when you say "hold your fork right side up." I do know that if you're eating meat (or anything that requires you to use stab at your food with the fork,) you are supposed to hold it so that the tines point downward (which would mean the convex part of the fork facing upwards and the concave part facing downwards.)

I personally find the American/"zig-zag" style ridiculous, and I've never been in a situation where the Continental/European style was ever frowned upon.

If you want to be really pretentious, you can pay special attention so that food hardly touches your lips. To do this, you really have to eat food in really small bite-sized amounts (unless you have a HUGE mouth), which is probably a good thing.

RVD

5) if you need to rest your utensils, put them on your plate so that the dirty part does not go back onto the tablecloth. when they take your plate, they will take your utensils for that course so you don't need them.

Some would say a utensil that has been used should NEVER touch the tablecloth, even the clean/handle part.

Jerz

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03 Jun 2009, 02:44

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xenok

This is also an American/European difference. In the US style, "right side up" would mean with tines pointing upwards. One other US/European difference, in the US you're not supposed to use your knife or anything else to help guide small foods (i.e. peas, corn) onto your fork. I believe in the European style it's considered perfectly ok to use a knife or bread for this. I agree with you xenok, that most businesspeople these days have been exposed to enough international culture to realize that not everyone follows the American eating customs, and wouldn't frown on people following the European style.

xenok

Some would say a utensil that has been used should NEVER touch the tablecloth, even the clean/handle part.

I have heard the same, with the placement indicating to the waitstaff whether you are finished or still eating (X = still eating, parallel = finished).

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16 Sep 2011, 15:31

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Useful information! Makes me worry a bit about the little knowledge I have about proper etiquette. I may look into getting a book about the basics, as you recommended.