H/W/S selection criteria

Came across this: https://bwnt.businessweek.com/alumni/compare.asp?group_type=s

Have idea how accurate this is but, there seems to be a significant difference between HS alums and the rest 15 yrs down the line. Again, this is a FYI and I have not even applied to those schools.

Yep- and my point is that he applied there not because of brand name but for whatever be the reason. In fact, I believe he also studied at UCB. He has said that he might choose Haas over Kellogg.

I think we need to establish whether the jobs one is able to get after an MBA are more a function of one's prior experiences or one's MBA "pedigree." Are these Harvard grads making that much more money simply because they were already well on their way to the top of the corporate ladder before starting business school, or because they have Harvard on their resume?

And interestingly, according to that BusinessWeek survey Johnson, Kellogg and Simon grads of the Class of '92 are all earning significantly more than Wharton grads.

What does that tell you? IMO, absolutely nothing!

That is a good little calculator/comparer...


Interesting stuff.. again, not sure how accurate it is, but still.

Amazing how low the Ross grads (financially) are compared to Harvard, Stanford, Chicago, UCLA, Virginia. Ross got edged slightly by Cornell and barely beat my undergrad, the University of Washington. Wonder whats up with that.

Wonder what Ross's rank was 15 yrs back? If it was not ranked that high back then, it could explain to some extent.

Interesting. See the assumption that you are making for Harvard grads here? You said that Harvard grads make "that much more money" and perhaps that is because of their experiences/achievements. It appears that everybody (Including us, who are supposed to be in the know) assumes that if someone is from Harvard, he/she must have been a terrific achiever. Will this general image of Harvard grads help them in their future? You tell me.

I will say this again, do not judge other's school selections, people! If we really want, we can pick just ANY person on this forum .. yes, ANYBODY .. and shred his/her school selections into pieces.


I usually tend to agree with what river says. But I don't agree with him here. If one person chose to apply only to H/S, then that doesn't mean that all of his eggs are in one basket. There are other eggs and there are other baskets in his career .. they perhaps just don't go through MBA. He calculated (Maybe through his contacts, maybe through his visits and maybe just through the USNEWS rankings) that it was better for him to continue his career if he didn't get into H/S. We don't know about that person enough to call this approach "silly". I also made the mistake of judging nervousgmat's R2 applications (Since she had an admit already). I wish I hadn't done that. The difference between BW forum and this place is that we just help .. we don't judge. Let's keep it this way.

Or if more Ross grads remained in the midwest after graduation, unlike today.

'that much more money' was in reference to the B-week survey dosa posted, Harvard grads from the Class of '92 appear to be making nearly 600k after bonuses etc., way higher apparently than some of the other schools. I was not making any assumptions.

Good point bherronp.

Sorry, I should have been more clear. I didn't say that you assumed that Harvard grads make more money. I was focusing on the following statement of yours:

Are these Harvard grads making that much more money simply because they were already well on their way to the top of the corporate ladder before starting business school?

Well, I can provide an example here. I am not looking forward to get recruited from school. Now I applied only to Stanford, since after my research I found electives and programs matching my intended field, a professor who is an authority in exactly what I want to do and Stanford alumuni at the right places where I need contacts. So it only makes sense for me to try for Stanford, if I am risking (seriously) 2 years of my life. My plan is that if I do not go to Stanford, I will study part time at Fuqua, since I live and work at a commutable (4 hours) distance from there. For me, there are 2 tiers, Stanford and every other school.

And I agree I started my B-school process like a reputation crazy person, do I need to say anything beyond my id? Yes, just one more, I did not know there is a famous B School named Stanford GSB until 5 months back.

Yes, and what I was trying to get across was whether Harvard had any role to play in the fact that they are making 600k 15 years after graduating. If they were indeed a rising star in the corporate world in 1992, it's entirely possible that in 15 years they would be where they are even without Harvard.

This is an awesome discussion, one sees things through so many perspectives. Hopefully this is the kind of debate that's also encouraged in business schools.

OK-

As one of those who applied to the H/S/W triumvirate, I feel compelled to comment.

As I've made clear in other threads and posts, I'm not from a typical pre-MBA background, and I'm not looking for a banking/consulting job. So my reasons for applying to the schools I did are specific to me and my goals. That's the way it should be.

I'll go through H/S/W one school at a time and describe why I applied to each.

Wharton- The most outwardly obvious choice of the three for anyone interested in medical devices and biotech. The top health management program around, with terrific connections to industry.

Stanford- No organized health care management program. But an amazing atmosphere of collaboration between the business, medical, engineering, and law schools as well as a terrific entrepreneurial program. If you have a moment, take a look at the Biodesign Innovation site:
https://biodesign.stanford.edu/bdn/index.jsp
If I may borrow a phrase from Snoop, that's off the hizzle.

Harvard- A relatively new Health Care Initiative that's still finding its way. But keep in mind, it's linked to the #1 medical school in the world. I have friends in this program, and they're having amazing experiences.

Those are the career-specific reasons I applied to those schools. Outside of these reasons, I'm fully aware that I might change my mind when I get to business school. Why wouldn't I want to provide myself with the broadest set of options available? Any of these schools would give me an outstanding education, with ready exits into consulting or banking. And if I got interested in VC or (who knows, anything's possible) PE, H and S would give me the best shots at those fields.

This isn't to say that these are the best schools for everyone. I really think you have to come up with your own personal list of schools. I would've been thrilled attending Sloan (outstanding entrepreneurship) or Kellogg (great health/biotech management). And I really wish I would've had the time to take a look at Haas, which has great entrepreneurship and health management. As I'll explain whenever I get off my duff and write my "evolution of B-school pursuit" post, I came to this entire process quite late and had to rush it a fair amount.

In summary, I think everyone has to choose a list of schools that's appropriate to his/her interests and personality. For some people, that does include H/S/W

I hope so too. And yeah, this discussion has been quite healthy and interesting.

ps. Just so you guys know, my frequent posts have nothing to do with me attempting to become a VP ASAP.

This would require knowledge of the MBA market in 92. Was it as competitive as today? How many people got MBA degrees? How established were the business schools?

Post-MBA salaries these days are not that much different among the top 10 schools (apparently they were, looking at how badly-paid Michigan MBA grads were back then)

The Harvard figures (Bonus) might be strongly influenced by a select few (if you get 20million bonus as a hedge fund manager you pull up that figure).

The question is also, if the strengths of the H/S/W are still so superior or if they are getting under fire as companies realize that social skills are more important and looking for schools with graduates that provide these better than a H might. (pure hypothesis)

good discussion

i concur with whoever said that for many people it is not silly to only apply where you want to go, even if there is a high probability of not getting in. i only have one application left on the table after having been rejected at Cornell and LBS. i believe the wharton/lauder russian program is such a good fit for me that I think I might just get in, despite it seeming like a long shot on the surface.

if I don't get in, I am up for a promotion at work, and I am totally comfortable staying on my current path. i'm a born salesman. i can be a salesman here or in russia. it would be more interesting in russia, but i'm fine staying here in california. the weather is nice and the girls are just as pretty as they are in moscow.