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riskall
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 13:46
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calculas
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Ok this was a total surprise to me also! but I got a call from the school at about 4:30pm PST this evening to tell me that I am still on the waitlist :( - next round of results are sometime in May.

Although I am not surprised with my continuation on the WL (I have a very low GMAT) but based on my lengthy conversation, I can tell you most of you (700+ scores) on the WL from R1 will make it through. Hang in there.

Anyone else got a call today?


Hi Calulas,
Thanks for sharing. Would you mind sharing what they said about 700+ scorers and why you think that most will get in?

Thanks in advance.




I felt that (and its a well known point) that getting a 700 (or more) gets you 1/3 the way. If you are waitlisted, I am assuming there is something interesting in your profile (and you are already 1/2 way there). So once the peer-to-peer comparisons start, it almost always boils down to GMAT and 700s on any given day have an edge over others (with exceptions ofcourse)
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I think that's quite a leap. There is so much more that goes into an application. I would say a stellar recommendation is probably worth a lot more than a 20-30 point spread in the GMAT. It' hard to know how adcom makes those close calls.
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 14:02
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I just gave a very high-level PoV. We can go on forever getting into the details
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 14:09
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calculas
I just gave a very high-level PoV. We can go on forever getting into the details
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I feel the Haas may have a GMAT threshold, which is probably 700 or higher. Below that, then they expect you to make up for it in other parts of the application. Above that, unless you hit the next threshold of 760, I don't think it matters.

And in the greater scheme of things, I would say GMAT takes a backseat to things such as having direct reports, turning huge profits on projects, etc.

If the GMAT were that important, I think Haas EWMBA would have a GMAT average of 700-710, almost in its FT territory.
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 14:12
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The average GMAT for the ewmba is 692. That's close enough to be a factor. Clearly it's important.

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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 14:27
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pinchharmonic
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I just gave a very high-level PoV. We can go on forever getting into the details

I feel the Haas may have a GMAT threshold, which is probably 700 or higher. Below that, then they expect you to make up for it in other parts of the application. Above that, unless you hit the next threshold of 760, I don't think it matters.

And in the greater scheme of things, I would say GMAT takes a backseat to things such as having direct reports, turning huge profits on projects, etc.

If the GMAT were that important, I think Haas EWMBA would have a GMAT average of 700-710, almost in its FT territory.
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I think it could well be that they expect engineers to score 700+ so that they can have other students from other backgrounds who score less, to promote the class diversity..
Just a guess.. My assumption that non-engineering students don't score more than 700 could well be wrong...
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 14:40
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packet82
The average GMAT for the ewmba is 692. That's close enough to be a factor. Clearly it's important.

Posted from my mobile device
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I don't think anybody is disputing it's important. Merely that we don't know how important w.r.t the less quantitative metrics. The process has a lot of subjectivity in it based on things like essays, perceived quality of WE, recommendation letters yada yada yada.
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 14:50
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packet82
The average GMAT for the ewmba is 692. That's close enough to be a factor. Clearly it's important.

Posted from my mobile device
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My position is

if your work experience is stellar, gmat is moot.
if your gmat is stellar, so what, show me your work experience

For instance, if you are a director at google/fb/MSFT, I don't think the GMAT will stop you no matter how low. Just glancing at the EWMBA website, you can see their "flagship" students and see the similarities. Work experience with proven leadership.

So the way I see it is, they use work experience, which includes recommendations, as the primary filter. Maybe GMAT and GPA are used as tiebreakers and just assurance that they can handle the coursework.

I think statistically, in any given year, you will never get 240 of those "high-powered" candidates applying to Haas, let alone 240 of them saying yes. However, I think you can easily get 240 candidates with 700+ GMATS though. I guess you can say that's looking at it from a supply side perspective.
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 14:56
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I think that's quite a leap. There is so much more that goes into an application. I would say a stellar recommendation is probably worth a lot more than a 20-30 point spread in the GMAT. It' hard to know how adcom makes those close calls.
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There certainly is more to an application than a GMAT score. However, recommendations are a base level that you have to meet. If they're not both stellar, you're going to have a much more difficult time getting in. Past that, schools use them to understand exactly what your responsibilities are at work outside of what you write in your essays.

That said, if you're on the WL and you have <700, you should retake the GMAT. Aside from showing initiative, you need to remove any possible reason that adcom would have to overlook your application. It may not mean anything about you long term, but like it or not, one of the primary metrics schools are ranked on is average GMAT score.
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 15:05
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I think that's quite a leap. There is so much more that goes into an application. I would say a stellar recommendation is probably worth a lot more than a 20-30 point spread in the GMAT. It' hard to know how adcom makes those close calls.

There certainly is more to an application than a GMAT score. However, recommendations are a base level that you have to meet. If they're not both stellar, you're going to have a much more difficult time getting in. Past that, schools use them to understand exactly what your responsibilities are at work outside of what you write in your essays.

That said, if you're on the WL and you have <700, you should retake the GMAT. Aside from showing initiative, you need to remove any possible reason that adcom would have to overlook your application. It may not mean anything about you long term, but like it or not, one of the primary metrics schools are ranked on is average GMAT score.
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Good point. Looking at the USNews rankings for PT programs 15% weightage is given to GMAT and an equal weight to WE. GPA is just 5%. So if rankings is at the back of their minds AdCom would go for WE (not sure how they quantify this) and GMAT over academics. As to your point about recommendations, I think a lot of people get luke warm recommendations from superiors. I am not sure whether such recommendations automatically lead to a ding at a top business school though.
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 15:08
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Well, if you look at the "flagship" students. They are just 23 out of a possible 750+ students enrolled at any given time.
Just like all of us try to put our best foot forward in front of the adcom, I think its equally likely that the schools too have to put their best foot forward.
So by comparing your profile with the "flagship" students is anyways not relevant.
The point is that the adcoms are looking for people who in-general always demonstrate leadership qualities. Your initiatives, etc. go a long way in the application process.
It just goes back to one post by packet82 in which he says it all depends on what you communicate to the adcoms on what you do, how you perceive your role where you are... etc...
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 15:11
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pinchharmonic

My position is

if your work experience is stellar, gmat is moot.
if your gmat is stellar, so what, show me your work experience

For instance, if you are a director at google/fb/MSFT, I don't think the GMAT will stop you no matter how low. Just glancing at the EWMBA website, you can see their "flagship" students and see the similarities. Work experience with proven leadership.

So the way I see it is, they use work experience, which includes recommendations, as the primary filter. Maybe GMAT and GPA are used as tiebreakers and just assurance that they can handle the coursework.

I think statistically, in any given year, you will never get 240 of those "high-powered" candidates applying to Haas, let alone 240 of them saying yes. However, I think you can easily get 240 candidates with 700+ GMATS though. I guess you can say that's looking at it from a supply side perspective.
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GMAT shows effort more than anything. If your work experience is stellar, it gives you more latitude as far as scores go, but it's still important. Being that this is a part time program, work experience factors in to the equation a lot more than a full time program, and that's why the avg GMAT score is ~20 points lower than the FT program. When it comes down to it, the GMAT is simply a hoop you have to jump through.

My thoughts on the admission process are this: You get one or two weak points in your profile. Any more than that and it's going to start raising eyebrows. If you have great WE and essays, but a 650 on the GMAT, you can overcome that. If however, you have a low gmat, good essays, and what could be considered decent, but not stellar work experience, you're going to be closer to a borderline candidate. This goes doubly so if you're in an overrepresented class like engineering. So, why would you waste your one 'gimmie' that the adcom will give you on a low GMAT score?

At this point in the process, if you're on the WL, the only thing you can really change is the GMAT score. Clearly pinchharmonic has more than an adequate score and once you're over the 700 mark it doesn't matter. However, if you're in the 600s, it's going to be a question that comes up when they're looking at your profile. Will it be the deciding factor? Probably not, but it's certainly going to be one of the factors.
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 15:17
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riskall

Good point. Looking at the USNews rankings for PT programs 15% weightage is given to GMAT and an equal weight to WE. GPA is just 5%. So if rankings is at the back of their minds AdCom would go for WE (not sure how they quantify this) and GMAT over academics. As to your point about recommendations, I think a lot of people get luke warm recommendations from superiors. I am not sure whether such recommendations automatically lead to a ding at a top business school though.
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One luke warm recommendation certainly won't do too much damage, adcoms know there are dishonest people out there and we don't actually see what's written. Both recommendations either being luke warm or outright negative will certainly hurt your chances though as it starts to paint a negative picture about you. Outside of a felony conviction or sub 2.0 GPA, I don't think there is a single metric that will result in an automatic ding. They're all holistically reviewed after all. However, there are certainly factors that will make an admit much more difficult to get.

This is one of the reasons the partner I report to was the only recommendation I used on both applications. I picked a different person for the secondary recommendation at both schools. It doesn't hurt to be careful.
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 15:21
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Actually, I take that back. I was at an information session for the EWMBA back in 2008 in downtown SF back when I was graduating from grad school and there was a housewife at the session. She wanted to apply to the EWMBA program because she was bored and had no real ambitions on what she wanted to do with the MBA. That would be an automatic ding.
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 15:25
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packet82
Actually, I take that back. I was at an information session for the EWMBA back in 2008 in downtown SF back when I was graduating from grad school and there are a housewife at the session. She wanted to apply to the EWMBA program because she was bored and had no real ambitions on what she wanted to do with the MBA. That would be an automatic ding.
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Hahaha...I would say so. Also, spending over 100k/3years to get over boredom is a bad deal IMO.
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 16:09
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MBACLASS2013
packet82
2013EWMBA
In 2011, the R2 decision day was April 1st, but the decisions were announced on march 24th and march 31st. The wait list was announced on April 1st.
So going by that we could expect the decisions on march 20th and 27th?

I wouldn't count on it. It's probably going to be the same as R1. Calls to admits the day before and everyone else gets to find out the day of.

He/She might be right. Since 25-29 is spring break and 23-24 is Saturday-Sunday. The phone calls might come on 22 :)
Although personally I will not give up my sleep o that. 26th might be the day of calls.
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Well, technically 1st year evening students still have classes. No spring break for them. Check Haas EWMBA calendar:

ewmba.haas.berkeley.edu/academics/calendar.html

Its possible that admission office is open during Mar 25-29. Well, another 50min to go before admission office closes. Let's see if anybody gets a call.
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 16:30
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On the topic of AVG Gmat, anyone have the numbers for this year? Is it indeed 692? I don't have the "compass" feature at usnews.

At any rate, Haas is right at the threshold of a 700 GMAT average. If Haas were to break that threshold this year, It'd be huge for the school, probably being the first PT program to have a 700+ GMAT average. It'd do wonders for their ranking, which is already the best.

Assuming 260 students, to get add another 8 points to their average would require about 2000 more points total from the fall 2013 class vs 2012. In other words, 50 people getting 40 points higher or 100 people getting 20 points higher or 200 people getting 10 points higher, etc.

In any case, do you think the adcom is cognizant of the running average as they are selecting students? That'd make their decision process unbelievably hard I'd imagine. Nevertheless, Haas would have to consider it to a certain degree. If not to raise the average, to not let their average fall. If that were the case, perhaps pulling people off the waitlist end of RD3 is weighted heavily towards GMAT as they are probably satisfied with class diversity at that point and may need to maintain their average.
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 18:54
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In any case, no one received any call today? Seems like Haas likes to update calculus a few days ahead of all of us.. :)
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 20:48
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speedingdaemon
In any case, no one received any call today? Seems like Haas likes to update calculus a few days ahead of all of us.. :)
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Sounds like the beginnings of a bar joke "Haas walked into a bar and saw calculus sitting alone in a corner...."
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 22 Mar 2013, 23:34
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sorry calculas... but riskall, that was seriously funny!!! rofl!!
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Haas (UC Berkeley) EWMBA 2013 - Calling All Applicants 23 Mar 2013, 15:40
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pinchharmonic
On the topic of AVG Gmat, anyone have the numbers for this year? Is it indeed 692? I don't have the "compass" feature at usnews.

At any rate, Haas is right at the threshold of a 700 GMAT average. If Haas were to break that threshold this year, It'd be huge for the school, probably being the first PT program to have a 700+ GMAT average. It'd do wonders for their ranking, which is already the best.

Assuming 260 students, to get add another 8 points to their average would require about 2000 more points total from the fall 2013 class vs 2012. In other words, 50 people getting 40 points higher or 100 people getting 20 points higher or 200 people getting 10 points higher, etc.

In any case, do you think the adcom is cognizant of the running average as they are selecting students? That'd make their decision process unbelievably hard I'd imagine. Nevertheless, Haas would have to consider it to a certain degree. If not to raise the average, to not let their average fall. If that were the case, perhaps pulling people off the waitlist end of RD3 is weighted heavily towards GMAT as they are probably satisfied with class diversity at that point and may need to maintain their average.
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We won't find out this year's numbers until probably this fall.

I doubt Haas has a running tally of the average GMAT score as they're admitting people, but they're definitely looking at the GMAT score of applicants and it's a weighted part of your application. More than anything, they're looking for people with the drive to go places that will make the school look good long term. GMAT weighs in to it, but it's not the primary factor that they're looking for. If your score is low though, it may be enough to move you to the ding pile when added up with the rest of your application.
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