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riverripper
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HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT 08 Aug 2008, 12:48
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I wouldnt worry about your GPA unless its well below 3.0 in an easy major from an unknown school. Its easier to explain away a bad GPA from 4+ years ago, especially if you nailed the GMAT and have done well at work since graduating.
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HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT 08 Aug 2008, 14:29
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riverripper
I wouldnt worry about your GPA unless its well below 3.0 in an easy major from an unknown school. Its easier to explain away a bad GPA from 4+ years ago, especially if you nailed the GMAT and have done well at work since graduating.
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I think a lot of people don't get what you're saying. It's not like you're applying to graduate school right after finishing your undergrad degree. Most people who apply for an MBA have ~5 years of work experience, some have graduate degrees.

If you've got a 3.3 GPA and your first year of undergrad was terrible, don't sweat it. It likely happened more than five years ago. Focus on what you've done SINCE.

RF
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msday
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HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT 08 Aug 2008, 15:18
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riverripper
I wouldnt worry about your GPA unless its well below 3.0 in an easy major from an unknown school. Its easier to explain away a bad GPA from 4+ years ago, especially if you nailed the GMAT and have done well at work since graduating.
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"nailing the GMAT" means something different at HBS today than it did four years ago. When the average is 720, you have to get a 770+ to really "nail the GMAT" and get a free pass for a bad GPA. GPA is a better measure of future success than the GMAT score is, because it represents data from 4 years, not 4 hours. A good GMAT can only compensate so much, right?
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HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT 08 Aug 2008, 15:27
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"nailing the GMAT" means something different at HBS today than it did four years ago. When the average is 720, you have to get a 770+ to really "nail the GMAT" and get a free pass for a bad GPA. GPA is a better measure of future success than the GMAT score is, because it represents data from 4 years, not 4 hours. A good GMAT can only compensate so much, right?
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Yes you need a 740+ now to be safely above average at the top schools. However remember that average is an average for all people so it varies somewhat by demographics. Schools wont admit it but its pretty safe to assume that the Indians and many other Asian students help raise the average. Same with engineers who typically do very well. A 720 for some groups may definitely be considered nailing it while a 770 for others might be close to average.

See I disagree to a point on the GMAT vs GPA debate. I know many people who were very unfocused at 18-22 years old...did terrible in school not because of lack of ability but lack of focus and direction. However, a they hit their stride when they reach the working world and really excel. Also, for the average applicant its 4-5+ years ago, so it is not as good an indicator as a test taken 6 months ago on your abilities. Personally I would rather apply with a 750 and a 3.2 than a 3.75 and a 650. The GMAT is an equal measuring stick...sure it doesnt measure intelligence or abilities perfectly but neither do grades.

Besides, there is such a huge difference between the difficulty of getting a 3.5 at one school than another. I used this comparison in another thread...but it bears repeating, do you think that some electrical engineer from MIT with a 3.1 is going to be looked at as a lesser student than a sociology major from local State U with a 3.8. Definitely not, the difficulty of the major and the school will be taken into account.
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HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT 08 Aug 2008, 16:16
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msday86

"nailing the GMAT" means something different at HBS today than it did four years ago. When the average is 720, you have to get a 770+ to really "nail the GMAT" and get a free pass for a bad GPA. GPA is a better measure of future success than the GMAT score is, because it represents data from 4 years, not 4 hours. A good GMAT can only compensate so much, right?
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I don't believe that is correct. I think multiple sources agree that GMAT score is a better predictor of success in business school than GPA, and specifically the quantitative section of the GMAT. I believe there was a quote in the Montauk book (quoting a Tuck Adcom if I recall) stating this; and I believe the GMAC website gives evidence of this as well.

Thile GPA and GMAT both contribute to the same part of an applicants profile, I believe that they reveal different things. Generally speaking, I think that GPA is more of a reflection of effort (especially over a period of time), while GMAT is more of a reflection of raw ability. I think a huge portion of college students believe that they could have gotten better grades in college if they had worked harder - not necessarily that they were smarter. Other differences are that everyone is tested (more or less) on the same material under similar conditions; and for most applicants the GMAT is a much more recent indicator than college GPA.
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HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT 08 Aug 2008, 17:14
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I think Pelihu and River are on the right track here. The GMAC did some study to compare the first-year performance of B-school students with GMAT score and there's a pretty decent correlation between the two; even stronger than UGPA.

I also know that U.S. News, the most important rankings, weighs GMAT as 60% of the academics portion of their scoring, whereas GPA weigh in at only 35% of the academics portion of their scoring (the last 5% being selectivity, i.e. lower admittance rate). Point being, rankings hungry (UE and E) schools will probably forgive a low GPA moreso than a low GMAT.

Just a guess here, but I would think there are more sub 3.0 GPAs admitted at these schools than sub 620 GMATs.

...OR I'm lying to myself because I had a garbage UGPA and a good GMAT score :lol:
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HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT 08 Aug 2008, 18:21
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From the Economist:

https://www.economist.com/business/globalexecutive/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10316110

"GISMA compared GMAT scores and GPAs (grade point averages) for GISMA's full-time MBA classes from 2003 to 2006 and found there to be “such a small connection between the two as to be insignificant.”

“For overall academic success other traits also play a major role, for example leadership ability, strategic thinking, marketing and communication skills, creativity and persuasiveness—none of which are assessed by the GMAT.”

Let's not obsess over how closely correlated the GMAT is to b-school GPA. All of us know that's only one of the metrics evaluated in the admissions committee's "holistic" review.
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HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT 08 Aug 2008, 19:19
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We could go back and forth about this. Even GISMA said "The school did recognise that the GMAT was a reliable indicator when it came to the more quantitative subjects."

Plus, they only studied their own student for a few years. The GMAC gets results from multiple schools, which may or may not be more reliable. I guess you can take either with a grain of salt.
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HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT 08 Aug 2008, 19:33
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sonibubu
I think Pelihu and River are on the right track here. The GMAC did some study to compare the first-year performance of B-school students with GMAT score and there's a pretty decent correlation between the two; even stronger than UGPA.

I also know that U.S. News, the most important rankings, weighs GMAT as 60% of the academics portion of their scoring, whereas GPA weigh in at only 35% of the academics portion of their scoring (the last 5% being selectivity, i.e. lower admittance rate). Point being, rankings hungry (UE and E) schools will probably forgive a low GPA moreso than a low GMAT.

Just a guess here, but I would think there are more sub 3.0 GPAs admitted at these schools than sub 620 GMATs.

...OR I'm lying to myself because I had a garbage UGPA and a good GMAT score :lol:
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All three of you may be right, but my point was that GPA is a better predictor of success 10 years post-MBA. A successful career, like a good UG GPA, takes long-term dedication and perseverance, not a 3-hr burst of genius.
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HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT 08 Aug 2008, 23:16
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ill weigh on this. for one thing i had a 2.97 gpa, and have a 730 gmat.

first three semesters of college i had a 2.5 GPA. Quite frankly, i had no idea what i was doing, and got involved iwth a lot of stuff. As an engineer major, i was really overwhelmed with calculus, chemistry, etc. I remember just thinking that i was as smart as people getting A's, but had never taken Calculus in high school, and really lacked the study know how and focus to get it done. Further, quite honestly, motivation. I didnt go into college thinking 'i got to get best gpa possible for grad school'. i went in thinking 'im gonna have fun and have fun learning'

I think GPA is very delicately looked at, where as gmat is a hard score. gpa i think they look at alot for trends, did your gpa get better? most of us are applying at around 26. you think a school will ding you cause for 6 months, when you were 18, you didnt put in alot of effort into school? what an absurd notion that is.

i think they will ding you on gpa if you are way below the average and/or there is no evidence that once you corrected yourself on focus (and skill on how to study) there was not an improvement seen in some sense with the GPA.

There are of course the outlier semesters, where there may be F's and D's, which so long as a very reasonable explanation exists, it will be accepted.
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HBS 2008 GPA/GMAT 20 Jul 2017, 23:42
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Hello from the GMAT Club MBAbot!

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