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# Here's the original sentence: 1. The band U2 WAS just one of

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Here's the original sentence: 1. The band U2 WAS just one of [#permalink]

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25 Feb 2013, 09:31
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Here's the original sentence:

1. The band U2 WAS just one of many new groups on the rock music scene in the early 1980's, but less than ten years later, U2 HAD fully ECLIPSED its early rivals in the pantheon of popular music.

Why not use here the Present Perfect in place of the Past Perfect?:

2. The band U2 WAS just one of many new groups on the rock music scene in the early 1980's, but less than ten years later, U2 HAS fully ECLIPSED its early rivals in the pantheon of popular music.

The only difference between these two sentences is the usage of Past Perfect (1) and Present Perfect (2).
Could someone clarify this difference, please?
My first two questions in mind are:
1. In the first sentence, does the "HAD ECLIPSED" inform that the effect of this event is not true today?
2. Does the usage of the Past Perfect in (1) follow from the general rule: Simple Past + Past Perfect, Simple Present + Present Perfect, and thus is semantically (not gramatically) indifferent?
3. If not, what is the semantical difference between these sentences?
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Re: The band U2 WAS just one of many new groups on the rock musi [#permalink]

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25 Feb 2013, 10:16
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Do not bring your general knowledge while interpreting the meaning. Nothing mentions that U2 is still popular and still performs. Replace U2 with a band that no longer performs, such as Beatles and you'd understand what I mean.

The band Beatles WAS just one of many new groups on the rock music scene in the early 1980's, but less than ten years later, Beatles HAD fully ECLIPSED its early rivals in the pantheon of popular music.

Now, Read the following sentence too - this sentence means the effect is still ON:

The band U2 WAS just one of many new groups on the rock music scene in the early 1980's, but in less than twenty years since then, U2 HAS fully ECLIPSED its early rivals in the pantheon of popular music.
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Re: The band U2 WAS just one of many new groups on the rock musi [#permalink]

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01 May 2013, 07:30
sumeetkarora wrote:
Do not bring your general knowledge while interpreting the meaning. Nothing mentions that U2 is still popular and still performs. Replace U2 with a band that no longer performs, such as Beatles and you'd understand what I mean.

The band Beatles WAS just one of many new groups on the rock music scene in the early 1980's, but less than ten years later, Beatles HAD fully ECLIPSED its early rivals in the pantheon of popular music.

Now, Read the following sentence too - this sentence means the effect is still ON:

The band U2 WAS just one of many new groups on the rock music scene in the early 1980's, but in less than twenty years since then, U2 HAS fully ECLIPSED its early rivals in the pantheon of popular music.

Agreed with the reasoning;however,can you justify the time sequence used in above example.

Earlier event : Simple Past (WAS)
Later event : Past Perfect (Had Eclipsed)

On the contrary, when the idea in general is reverse of above.

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Re: Here's the original sentence: 1. The band U2 WAS just one of [#permalink]

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25 May 2015, 05:31
Right: The band U2 WAS just one of many new groups on the rock music scene in the
early 1980's, but less than ten years later, U2 HAD fully ECLIPSED its early rivals in
the pantheon of popular music.

Here, the author's point of view is from a time that is later than time event of 'HAD eclipsed'

Early 80's -------------------> 10 yrs later = early 90's ----------------------->late nineties till -----------------------> NOW
new groups = was ---------> had eclipsed ------------------------------------>authors view = implied----------------> NA

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Re: Here's the original sentence: 1. The band U2 WAS just one of   [#permalink] 25 May 2015, 05:31
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