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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 06 Jul 2016, 12:40
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Is "However" a valid conjunction to join to independent clauses, or to create a subordinate clause??

Shouldn't the two clauses be separated by a semicolon?

Regards,

Nicolas
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 08 Jul 2016, 01:25
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ngbpy
Is "However" a valid conjunction to join to independent clauses, or to create a subordinate clause??

Shouldn't the two clauses be separated by a semicolon?

Regards,

Nicolas
Show more

The use of "however" you are referring to (conjunctive adverb) is not the same as the usage of "however" here.

1. needs semicolon (introduces independent clause): I played well; however I lost.

2. does not need semicolon (no independent clause introduced) : I cannot win however well I play.

You may consider the second as a part of the list "whatever", "whenever", "however" etc. They are NOT conjunctive adverbs and does not introduce an independent clause.

"However much United States voters may agree" is not an independent clause and is of type 2 stated above.
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 20 Sep 2016, 12:01
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A cannot be correct as 'much' is inappropriate.

C looks fine.

E doesn't show the contrast.

B is wordy.

D is chucked out because C is short and concise .

Please correct me if I'm wrong. What is the OE?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using GMAT Club Forum mobile app
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 20 Sep 2016, 12:38
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TGC
27. However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in government and that the government as a whole spends beyond its means, it is difficult to find broad support for a movement toward a minimal state.
A) However much United States voters may agree that
B) Despite the agreement among United States voters to the fact
C) Although United States voters agree
D) Even though United States voters may agree
E) There is agreement among United States voters that

Source: Brutal SC's
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GMATonMind
A cannot be correct as 'much' is inappropriate.
C looks fine.
E doesn't show the contrast.
B is wordy.
D is chucked out because C is short and concise .

Please correct me if I'm wrong. What is the OE?
Show more
Dear GMATonMind,

I'm happy to respond. :-) I don't have the highest opinion of this SC question, but at least it does have a clear OA of (A).

My friend, I suspect what confuses you is the alternate meaning of the word "however." See this blog:
The Word “However” on the GMAT
As I explain in that blog, the word "however" has a common well-known meaning and a second, more sophisticated meaning that confused many GMAT takers. Used in the secondary sense, the construction "however much" is 100% correct.

If you have any question after you read that blog, please let me know.

Mike :-)
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 30 Jun 2017, 05:02
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This topic tests two facts namely 1. the parallel structure of the introducer 'that' and 2. the meaning of 'may agree'.
1. Because there is the introducer 'that' in the non-underlined part, one is compelled by parallelism to use 'that' in the underlined part too. We may eliminate choices B, C, and D for not obeying that rule.
Between A and E, the original text uses the word 'may agree", a sort of speculation while E claims certainty by saying that there is agreement, substantially differing from the original intent.
A is the correct choice.
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 16 Apr 2018, 20:22
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Isn't HOWEVER an Independent Marker ?
so how is it in option A , the sentence before comma is used as a subordinating clause ?
or is it that since here we have "however much" , it is not an independent clause ?
And if no, then what's the correct usage of however ?
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 17 Apr 2018, 20:33
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Raksat
Isn't HOWEVER an Independent Marker ?
so how is it in option A , the sentence before comma is used as a subordinating clause ?
or is it that since here we have "however much" , it is not an independent clause ?
And if no, then what's the correct usage of however ?
sayantanc2k
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Quote:
However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in government and that the government as a whole spends beyond its means, it is difficult to find broad support for a movement toward a minimal state.
Show more

"However much" definitely isn't an independent marker, and it functions differently than just plain old "however." In this sentence, "however much" basically means "regardless of the extent to which" or "no matter how much" -- and both are definitely the sort of qualifiers that would make the clause dependent.

Does that help at all?
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in Updated on: 02 Jun 2019, 03:04
Originally posted by Smitc007 on 01 Jun 2019, 08:08.
Last edited by Smitc007 on 02 Jun 2019, 03:04, edited 1 time in total.
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in government and that the government as a whole spends beyond its means, it is difficult to find broad support for a movement toward a minimal state.

What is referent of "it" in this question? aragonn, generis, hazelnutChrisLele
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 01 Jun 2019, 09:39
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The it refers to "to find broad support for a movement toward a minimal state". We can confirm that by checking what is "difficult": "to find broad support for a movement toward a minimal state is difficult".
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 06 May 2021, 08:39
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ChrisLele
Good question :)

We use 'however' as a conjunctive adverb showing contrast that we forget that it has another function: to express
extent. Let's have a look:

1. However much he prepped, he couldn't get a perfect score.

2. We must address all the concerns, however trivial some may be.

3. However, may concerns are of paramount importance and must be dealt with immediately.

The first two sentences use 'however' to express extent. When 'however' is used in this way it does not require a comma immediately following it. If 'however' is used to show contrast, as in sentence 3, then it needs a comma immediately following it.

Hope that clears up any confusion :)
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Thanks, ChrisLele for the explanation.

One thing I am still confused with is punctuation in your example,

We must address all the concerns, however trivial some may be.

Is the comma before however is correct?

If this usage of a comma is correct, then how will one distinguish this structure from another structure in which 'However' is used as Sub. Conj. ?
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 09 May 2021, 18:38
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Chineben
I agree with you but I feel there should be a comma after the "however"

Dear Chineben

you are utterly correct, and indeed there is a comma. I mere removed that-clauses for clarity.

However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in government and that the government as a whole spends beyond its means , it is difficult to find broad support for a movement toward a minimal state.

When we utilize however at the beginning of the sentence and it signifies: “no matter how", “in whatever manner,” or “to whatever extent”, comma immediately after "however" is unnecessary.

- However you like her, she cannot share your feelings.
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So it is correct to start a phrase with "However" and don't have a comma(,) immediately after it??
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in Updated on: 10 May 2021, 21:03
Originally posted by AjiteshArun on 09 May 2021, 21:24.
Last edited by AjiteshArun on 10 May 2021, 21:03, edited 1 time in total.
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JoaquinCerda
So it is correct to start a phrase with "However" and don't have a comma(,) immediately after it??
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Hi JoaquinCerda,

However can be used in more ways than one. When we use it to go against something earlier in the sentence (introduce a contrast, ~nevertheless) then we would normally expect to see a comma after however, like this: ABC; however, XYZ.

But if we use it before a word like much or many to say "no matter how much" or "no matter how many", then we cannot use a comma between however and the word after it.

1. However much United States voters may agree... ← This means "no matter how much US voters may agree".
2. However, much United States voters may agree... ← This means "nevertheless, much US voters may agree". There is nothing before the however that the however can refer to, and of course, we cannot use much with United States voters.

In general though, you shouldn't worry too much about commas (the GMAT tests very few issues related to the usage of commas, like comma splices).
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 27 May 2021, 15:45
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"However much"! Ive never heard that expression before. I would have said "no matter how much".

Posted from my mobile device
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 27 May 2021, 21:09
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Bambi2021
"However much"! Ive never heard that expression before. I would have said "no matter how much".
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Hi Bambi2021,

In case it helps: however much. No matter how much is a good way to communicate the same idea.
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 28 May 2021, 15:18
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aarkay87

Thanks, ChrisLele for the explanation.

One thing I am still confused with is punctuation in your example,

We must address all the concerns, however trivial some may be.

Is the comma before however is correct?

If this usage of a comma is correct, then how will one distinguish this structure from another structure in which 'However' is used as Sub. Conj. ?
Show more


Hello aarkay87,

I will glad to clarify this one for you. :-)

I guess you are confused between "however" that is used to present the contrast and is always used in an independent clause and the use of "however much" in this official sentence.

In this official sentence "however much" = "no matter how much".This expression will always be part of a dependent clause because when we present any information after "no matter how much", it must be preceded or followed by some other action that will act as an independent clause. The same is the case with the example sentence that you have the doubt about.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 28 May 2021, 15:38
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aarkay87

Thanks, ChrisLele for the explanation.

One thing I am still confused with is punctuation in your example,

We must address all the concerns, however trivial some may be.

Is the comma before however is correct?

If this usage of a comma is correct, then how will one distinguish this structure from another structure in which 'However' is used as Sub. Conj. ?


Hello aarkay87,

I will glad to clarify this one for you. :-)

I guess you are confused between "however" that is used to present the contrast and is always used in an independent clause and the use of "however much" in this official sentence.

In this official sentence "however much" = "no matter how much".This expression will always be part of a dependent clause because when we present any information after "no matter how much", it must be preceded or followed by some other action that will act as an independent clause. The same is the case with the example sentence that you have the doubt about.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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Thanks, Shraddha egmat

My query is not about the usage of 'However much' in the OG question, but it is regarding the correct usage of punctuation.

For example,

However the data were analyzed, the results remained consistent.
The results remained consistent however the data were analyzed.
The results remained consistent, however the data were analyzed.

As per my understanding, this highlighted comma should not be part of the correct punctuation/ structure.

Regards
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 28 May 2021, 15:57
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aarkay87

Thanks, Shraddha egmat

My query is not about the usage of 'However much' in the OG question, but it is regarding the correct usage of punctuation.

For example,

However the data were analyzed, the results remained consistent.
The results remained consistent however the data were analyzed.
The results remained consistent, however the data were analyzed.

As per my understanding, this highlighted comma should not be part of the correct punctuation/ structure.

Regards
Show more


Hello aarkay87,

I apologize for not understanding the question well and thanks for clarifying the same. :-)


An independent clause and a dependent clause may or may not be connected by a comma. The third version of the example sentence is fine because the comma connects the preceding independent clause with the following dependent clause. The usage is alright.


Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
Shraddha
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 26 Aug 2021, 23:01
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Hi, may I know whether the pronoun "it" in the sentence is correct? If yes, what does "it" refer to?
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 27 Aug 2021, 10:44
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smackmyface
Hi, may I know whether the pronoun "it" in the sentence is correct? If yes, what does "it" refer to?
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Hi smackmyface,

That it helps us shift to find... out of the subject position.

1. It is difficult to find broad support for a movement toward a minimal state.
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However much United States voters may agree that there is waste in 27 Aug 2021, 14:00
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smackmyface
Hi, may I know whether the pronoun "it" in the sentence is correct? If yes, what does "it" refer to?
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This is one of those rare "dummy" pronouns that don't really refer to anything. For instance:

    It was difficult for Tim to admit that his all-sardine diet was a terrible mistake.


Clearly, none of the nouns in the sentence make sense in place of "it," but I can't think of any noun that would work here. That's a good indication that we have one of those goofy pronouns that are used to convey a general state of affairs, such as "it is raining," or "it is important to eat chocolate daily." So the "it" in this case isn't an error.

The takeaway: 1) "dummy" pronouns do show up occasionally on the GMAT but 2) they are exceedingly rare, so you don't want to expend too much mental energy worrying about them. You might not see one at all. And if you think you see one, move on to other issues. It's that simple.

I hope that helps!
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