Johns Hopkins Carey Business School

@ Jackolicious - A real-life Hopkins MBA... Please keep posting here. There are a lot of people who are interested in this, but there is almost no information about the program beyond the website.

I have my heart pretty set on Yale for this year, but as an R2 who hasn't yet heard from them, I'm fearing the worst. I'm very interested in non-profit management and healthcare, and I'd like to be working toward my MBA while still employed.

My preferences for an MBA program:
-Part time
-East coast
-[strike]Top 15 program[/strike] Strike that, rather Strong Brand
-Strong social component

Hopkins fits the bill on these fronts. Though the fact that it is unranked and there is so little written on it that's more than 2 years old, does give me pause. (Also, as an aside, how does the Hopkins "Brand" look overseas?)

Here is my BIG question regarding the full time program: What kind of people are they attracting? Do you have an average GPA/GMAT/GRE for the class? I didn't see anything published.

I had similar concerns when I was determining whether or not to forsake an acceptance to other top 25 programs for JHU. Over the past few weeks, each day increases the likelihood I attend JHU. The faculty is world class, the curriculum is phenomenal and the global immersion is second to NONE.

The quality of the student body was something I would like to know as well, but you can take solace in the undergraduate institutions represented which include JHU, Carnegie Mellon, Yale, London Business School, etc. Accordingly, it passed the vetting process for some pretty fancy undergrads.

Additionally, the quality of the recruiting/internship placement appears to be phenomenal. Companies like Goldman, JPMorgan, Booz Allen, etc. are on the list which is a good sign. The humanity emphasis is no doubt a differentiator in this competitive environment but make no mistake about it, you don't start a world class business and MBA program to avoid banking/consulting like the plague. That would be like starting a world class law school to train public defenders for the good of the people. Not going to happen. JHU MBA offers career tracks, courses and projects in the traditional MBA fields and you are learning from world class faculty.

@EmoryNole - I don't believe LBS has an undergrad...

Did you visit the Carey school? I'd be interested in your experience/impressions. For work reasons, I can't visit at the moment, but plan to in the coming months.

Haven't visited, hope to in April, like you, I can't swing that right now with work and I am also a graduate student at the moment. You may be right about LBS, it may be a faculty member from there but I read in the acceptance packet someone is from there... Regardless, the point remains that it doesn't appear as if it is being used as a chance for mediocrity to get behind a big name, which was the root of my concern. I have spoken to some of my current professors (Wharton/Emory/UT/Duke PhD's) and they know/have known faculty from JHU and they all said the program is doing great things.

Yeah, I think the program will take off once it gets it's accreditation. It probably won't make much of a splash until it gets its AACSB stamp of approval, which could be a few years off, as they only just recently started this full time MBA program. Once that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if they debuted as as top 20-30 program, and then settled somewhere within the top 15 within the next ten years. Maybe that's a bit too far too fast, but Hopkins has the money, name and ambition.

It would be nice if they stayed away from the classic consulting and banking tracks. With so many other B-schools competing in these spaces, why even bother? As an aside, it's interesting to see what is happening at Yale SOM right now; a business school that was supposed to stand apart from other management schools by focusing on public management and social good is getting pulled in the more classic banking/consulting directions by their new dean.

I think Hopkins Carey - by focusing on healthcare management, medical drug and device development, non-profit/social enterprise, and international business (in partnership with top ranked Nitze SAIS) - could carve out a really attractive "alternative" program. This flagship Global MBA program should lean heavily on Nitze, include a language requirement, and prefer students with impressive international experience (I like that this first class is 50% foreign and about 50% female). Maybe even build out a strong Washington DC campus as well... because 1. It's hard to see Baltimore as the center of anything very important and 2. sorry, but there are no really attractive programs in DC at the moment, and I'm sure a full time Hopkins Global MBA would find fertile ground.

Sorry, lots of unsolicited advice for you Carey, but I can't help being interested in the direction the school will take.

Hopkins has the money for sure. But it's really hard for any program to be accredited and then immediately hit the Top 30. I agree that they have the ambition, and won't even have a business school in the first place if it couldn't be at least a Top 25 program perennially in the near future.



It seems that many schools are tying to offer a more "ethical" approach or "global" approach. However, management/strategy consulting and banking are the big money items and are the way to increase GMAT score averages more quickly imo.



Several things:

1. I agree that JHU needs a clear established campus location, whether it's DC or Charm City. Their website only says that students can take classes at four different locations, and that is a bit scattered.
2. The MBA program unfortunately doesn't really lean heavily with SAIS. SAIS offers a joint MA/MBA program with Wharton, Tuck, and INSEAD. SAIS has to cut ties with these schools soon if their MBA is going to be a Top 20 program, because a joint MA/MBA needs to be from the same institution if possible and JHU offers both degrees... Maybe the ties will be cut as soon as the MBA program gets AACSB accreditation.
3. I don't think that DC/Baltimore has "no attractive programs," but there is no bona-fide Top 20 program in DC. Georgetown is the best full-time program in the DC area, but from a full-time perspective, it is also a school that's in the tier below the Whartons and Kelloggs so maybe that's what you're talking about.

Kinda strange that DC doesn't even have a bona-fide elite university in general, where Georgetown is overall as close as it gets. Not saying that Georgetown isn't a great school overall since I'm applying there. But Georgetown isn't a Harvard or Yale. DC is a huge legal market but Georgetown is the only school in the elite T-14 tier and GW is right below them. UVA is probably the closest elite business and law school to DC, but it's also 100 miles away so I don't consider them a DC school.
4. As for health care, I agree that this is something Hopkins can exploit. I don't know if Duke and WashU do the same. GW does have an online Healthcare MBA fwiw.

****

Let's say that JHU gets AACSB accreditation within the next couple years and the program starts rivaling Georgetown soon after (Top 25-ish) or maybe even better within five years. The part time market could be rocked as well, both in DC and nationally.

Locally: Georgetown only offers a lock-step evening MBA with no flexibility, and that doesn't work with some DC area locals who want or even need such flexibility. Hopkins offers these options and not to mention, they have four locations, which can work to their advantage. If JHU Carey trumps Georgetown 10 years from now, the part time market will look different locally, and could bump Georgetown's, GW's, and Maryland's rankings down for the Part Time Program.

Nationally: JHU offers a weekend MBA, and this is in line with Chicago, Kellogg, and NYU. Should JHU be a Top 15-20 program, they will definitely start reeling away some of the students who may otherwise be interested in those three schools and it could impact their rankings too...

I'm not applying to Hopkins, but I am interested to see what happens with their program in the future.

@novanative - Lots of interesting things to think about here...

I agree with most, but disagree that Carey won't rise quickly. I think on the Hopkins University rankings alone, they will attract students and cash, and pull the big MBA rankings in their direction. US News puts Hopkins U at #16 in the world (and #13 nationally). In the international rankings they are ahead of Duke, Berkeley, Northwestern, Brown, UCLA, NYU... I don't want to give it more credit than it deserves, but I just can't see them having an MBA outside the top 20 nationally in 10 years (except maybe on the Forbes list, which only takes into account salaries). I know it can be hard to move in that space, but I think they can.

You bring up Georgetown, and how Hopkins may rival them in the next few years. Hopkins is as close to Columbia, MIT, and Stanford as Georgetown is to Hopkins (I know, this is getting a bit masturbatory). I don't make this comparison to debase Georgetown (a really great program, obviously), but rather to illustrate the difference between these schools, and my inability to see Hopkins placed anywhere outside the top 20. Who knows...

But setting aside MBA rankings, which are a strange beast, for those of us who are going to be working outside of banking and consulting, and couldn't care less about the names "McKinsey" or "Goldman Sachs", an MBA from Carey is a great value proposition. I agree that if someone is looking for an associate position at Goldman, Carey is not the place to do it, and it probably won't be the place to do it for a long time. But if you want to work in general management, perhaps for a big med device name like Medtronic, any kind of medical upstart, a medical insurance provider, big pharma, hospital management (Kaiser, for ex)... really anything health/public health-related, international NGOs, international affairs/policy/diplomacy, the Hopkins name on you MBA diploma - RIGHT NOW (even while unaccredited and unranked) - will open more doors than, say, an NYU or Northwestern or (gasp) even Wharton. (OK, just my thoughts, but prove me wrong?) I come from a public health background, and Hopkins is in a rarefied place when is comes to public health, medicine, and international (especially NGO) work. I'm not saying the Carey MBA is of actual higher quality (it almost certainly isn't) than current top-20 programs, but the name, the NAME is what matters here. It becomes a kind of self-fulfilling prophesy.

To some of your other points:

- I'm not really saying they should necessarily go the ethical route. Yes, focus on NGO work and social enterprise (they do have a campus in DC). But their real goal should be leveraging their other schools/departments to bolster the MBA (#1 ranked SAIS, #1 ranked Bloomberg, #1 ranked Med/Nursing Schools, their #1 ranked hospital, Zanvyl Krieger). Yes, unfortunately the big money is in consulting and banking. Still, it would be nice to see a program where less than 50% of its students go into those areas. And I don't think numbers would suffer because they turned away applicants with interests in banking and consulting. I think a large portion of rejects to any one school are "numerically" qualified. It may mean they keep their tuition costs slightly lower than other top programs, but not much lower.

- Yes, the location thing is a bit of a mess. Focus on DC and Baltimore (like Wharton in Philly and SF - Philly is their base, but SF is where things are happening).

- I'm not sure SAIS has to cut ties with those other programs. Probably best to keep your enemies closer and retain a close relationship to those schools you hope to join in the rankings, no? Somehow privileging the Carey MBAs in the dual degree offerings, or negotiating Carey MBAs in dual degree programs with the top-10 schools, would be nice.

- You say you aren't applying to Hopkins... why? There's still time!

Biggest reason why I am not applying to Hopkins is because I am open to working in consulting, which is one of the "traditional" tracks. Granted, I am perfectly fine at the start up tech research company I work at, but I do feel that my role could translate into technology strategy consulting if the opportunity presented itself and things weren't working out at my current employer. Second, my bachelor's in poli sci, not in business/econ, so after looking at the local programs, and discussions with friends who had MBA's or were in school already, I felt it was best to go after only the schools that were traditionally established, and therefore with full accreditation, and in DC, it's G-Town, UMD, GW, and American fit that though I agree that JHU is better regarded than all of those schools overall. For the MBA however, Hopkins isn't as established even though I believe it is promising for the right candidate, and I feel that I need that with my MBA at this time when I don't have any solid business education background, so I don't feel it was the best fit for me. JHU could do all of the focuses as you mentioned (SAIS, medical school, etc). I think the banking/consulting ties may improve with the support of undergrad alumni who were able to get into those industries, but of course went elsewhere for their MBA's if they have them.

Second, as a DC area resident for all my life except college, I don't really hear that much interest about Johns Hopkins, aside from the hospital and the Medical School. I know it's a great university, right up there with Duke, Northwestern, and at least half of the Ivies, maybe better actually, but for whatever reason in the DC area, I just don't hear too much about its reputation being out there on the news or discussed about amongst fellow students, like Georgetown and to a lesser extent GW are, possibly sports has to do with it because Hopkins is a D-III school except for lacrosse. Since I'm a Virginian, Hopkins and Georgetown are not popular destinations because it has two elite public universities in UVA and William & Mary which aren't quite as good, but still are first tier institutions and the tuition bill is lower before financial aid. Also, living near DC, many students want to get a little bit away from home, and Georgetown is right in our neighborhood, Hopkins as well. In fact, Georgetown's undergrad student body doesn't have a large number of local students at all, but that could be said about many of the top private universities in the US.

Though I may be getting out of subject here, as a local, I see that Baltimore residents have pride to the extent where they like to say that they're a completely different area from DC and vice versa, but both areas are in many ways the same metro area more or less, so it could be in JHU's advantage to market both cities, and it is an advantage for them to have a campus in both Baltimore (main campus) and DC (SAIS). Smith actually offers its Part Time MBA only at Shady Grove, in DC proper, and in Baltimore, though it is in the UMB (University of Maryland Baltimore) campus, so it does exploit both areas to some extent. The University of Maryland Baltimore is a separate institution from the University of Maryland College Park (Smith is part of College Park), though both schools go by the name "University of Maryland." UMB houses many if not most of the state's professional graduate school programs, which are the dental school, medical school, and the law school among other things.

That's probably good reasoning. Carey is certainly a value stock at the moment, and - regardless of what is said by cheerleaders like me - whether it will ultimately open those banking and consulting doors is yet to be seen. I know the internship placements have been good for the first Global MBA class. I anticipate good job placement and recruitment stats, but - again - who knows...

Best of luck at Georgetown, if that's where you end up!

I just accepted JHU's offer and turned down 2 other offers.
So I am officially part of the GMBA class of 2014.

-F

Congratulations! Please keep everyone here updated on your journey at Carey.

Thanks method!
I will do so with great pleasure

Peace
-F

Just wanted to thank you all for your responses in this thread. I just was admitted to the part time program at hopkins in DC and was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on the DC location specifically. Also I work in one of the less traditional MBA fields (real estate) and was wondering if anyone had any thoughts/experiences with the JHU MBA real estate concentration.

Thanks!

Also recently admitted to the DC PT program. Excited to start in the fall.

In at Carey and excited to matriculate w/ my fellow "trailblazers." Thank you to everyone able to post throughout the past few months.

Never go to JHU Carey. I just graduated from Carey MBA program and never received any help from alumni.
Even when you approach an alum, they usually ignore and never respond. It is so sad. Many students faced the same problem.
So think ten times before going to JHU Carey.

Just out of curiosity, how did you just graduate from a Carey MBA program but posted that you were rejected from Ross on 3/15/2012? Are you applying for a 2nd MBA?