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venky1979
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Kellogg Reco query 01 Jan 2007, 11:41
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Does Kellogg call/contact the recomenders
any body any idea?
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Kellogg Reco query 01 Jan 2007, 16:47
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I thought all schools called and verified recs?
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Kellogg Reco query 01 Jan 2007, 19:20
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According to Montauk's book, it's rare or never that schools call up and check on the recos. That's why these letters have to be so in-depth, as opposed to the short and simple recommendation letters former supervisors sometmes write for employment purposes (which are almost always followed up with a phone call). He's talking about programs in general, though, so I don't know if Kellogg follows suit.
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Kellogg Reco query 01 Jan 2007, 20:48
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aaudetat
According to Montauk's book, it's rare or never that schools call up and check on the recos. That's why these letters have to be so in-depth, as opposed to the short and simple recommendation letters former supervisors sometmes write for employment purposes (which are almost always followed up with a phone call). He's talking about programs in general, though, so I don't know if Kellogg follows suit.
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As far as I know, none of my recommenders have been contacted (they would have told me) and none of my friends who went to Kellogg reported they had recs called. I would imagine that unless there's a specific reason to, they won't. It would just take far too much co-ordination and time.
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 07:34
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Wow, guess I was way off base on my earlier comment. Seems odd that schools wouldn't take just a few minutes to call each recommender simply to verify that they are a real person and that they did indeed write the LOR.
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 07:36
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Wharton does extensive research on recomenders I believe
I know one case where Wharton verified the contents of reco with the recomender.
They called up and asked specific details about various statement made.
This was done prior to interview notification
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 07:51
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Wow, guess I was way off base on my earlier comment. Seems odd that schools wouldn't take just a few minutes to call each recommender simply to verify that they are a real person and that they did indeed write the LOR.
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The problem, I think, is that isn't just a "few minutes". Imagine calling someone, leaving them a message, waiting for them to call you back - which they might do, but only a few days later, at which point you have to find the candidates file, etc, assuming of course that you are there to answer the call - or else he leaves another message for you, but doesn't answer a key question that you have to ask so you make a mental note to get back to him again. Do that for 1500 applicants... ugh.
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 08:03
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They could send out an email and fix an appointment/telecon
Logistically still manageable
Afterall they are going to teach you management [:)]
Thats thier job isnt it?
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Kellogg Reco query Updated on: 02 Jan 2007, 10:07
Originally posted by rhyme on 02 Jan 2007, 10:01.
Last edited by rhyme on 02 Jan 2007, 10:07, edited 1 time in total.
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venky1979
They could send out an email and fix an appointment/telecon
Logistically still manageable
Afterall they are going to teach you management [:)]
Thats thier job isnt it?
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Uh....

Not that manageable you ask me. More than 4,500 applicants a year and you want to schedule a quick conversations with 9,000 recommenders around the globe? That sounds manageable to you?

Throw in that you basically have maybe 6 months, max, in which to do it? That's 1500 or so recommenders per month, or more than SEVENTY a day that you have to call. Even with ten minutes per recommender, thats 11 hours of calls a day, not including time to actually co-ordinate and schedule anything!

Never mind basic logistical issues such as time zones and the fact that neither the recommender nor the adcom would have access to someone's calendar - imagine the nightmare that would ensure "Are you free on tuesday at 1?" ... "No, I have another recommender scheduled then. How about Wed at 3?" ... etc... There's also other conflicts like recommenders overlapping, people not getting back to you in time, recommenders bailing on the call because of a last minute conflict (very likely), holidays, sick days, vacations, etc etc etc...

Think of the man hours needed - such a herculean effort for such little return. What would you really get out of it anyway?
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 10:07
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Maybe not both recomenders but for applicants they would be interested in Which I feel would narrow down the list
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 10:10
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say they decide 50% they are interstd and extending interview invite and they want to have one recomender typically current line manager
so your figure drops to 11/2*2 = less than 3 hours per day

There must be atleast 6 to 7 people in the adcom not to mention the MBA students whom the recruit as part time readers bringing down the time to laround 20 to 30 minutes per adcom per day

certainly manageable
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 10:10
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I think they outsource these efforts to a background check firm. Ofcourse, they may just reserve this for accepted applicants and stick the prospective students with the fee.
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 10:12
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venky1979
Maybe not both recomenders but for applicants they would be interested in Which I feel would narrow down the list
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Thats still a pretty major effort - were talking an incoming class size of 700 or so people - with offers out to twice that amount - 1400 or so - with "interesting" candidates were talking probably closer to 2000. Thats still nearly twenty calls a day. I come back to the basic concept of effort vs return. Thats a lot of man hours for very little value, unless you turn them into real conversations - in which case 10 minutes is nowhere near enough - and in which case, you can't outsource it because someone familiar with the school and the process and what they are looking for would need to make the calls.
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 10:15
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venky1979
say they decide 50% they are interstd and extending interview invite and they want to have one recomender typically current line manager
so your figure drops to 11/2*2 = less than 3 hours per day

There must be atleast 6 to 7 people in the adcom not to mention the MBA students whom the recruit as part time readers bringing down the time to laround 20 to 30 minutes per adcom per day

certainly manageable
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You should look at the problem not just from the perspective of time to make the calls themselves, but also the time necessary to schedule them, the tight timelines in which this would need to happen and the horrific logistics involved. Balanced against the return, there's very little value.
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 10:16
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Talk abt return a reasonable of recos must be fake
Recomender has no clue of whats written :)
and this is the best way to catch hyped up info on the essays earlier on
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 10:18
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Maybe u are right
But dont know what the stats are
But I know 2 cases Where Wharton seems to have called the recomenders
Actually only one in each case
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 10:20
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I can't speak for other schools but I think Wharton uses a firm called Kroll to perform background checks, including verifying recommenders. Now this is limited to students who will be attending.
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Kellogg Reco query Updated on: 02 Jan 2007, 10:26
Originally posted by rhyme on 02 Jan 2007, 10:22.
Last edited by rhyme on 02 Jan 2007, 10:26, edited 1 time in total.
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venky1979
Talk abt return a reasonable of recos must be fake
Recomender has no clue of whats written :)
and this is the best way to catch hyped up info on the essays earlier on
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I don't think that many recos are fake - that is - totally falsified, to the extent the recommender doesnt even know about it. I think a lot might be self-written, but not totally fake, made up and submitted through some yahoo.com email address. And anyway, if your recommender asked you to write it, they are likely just going to say "sure i wrote it. Yea I recommend him." anyway - they aren't going to say "no, I dont recommend him and the rec is full of crap". If they didn't want to support you they would have rated you poorly on the app to begin with when they submitted it (or not offered to write a rec in the first place) in which case, there's little point of make the call at all. Moreover, if someone really faked the whole thing - they aren't going to provide the real phone number of their recommender - they'll provide their own or a friends.

It also doesnt solve the problem of how you deal with recommenders you cant get a hold of - a very realistic situation.
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 10:24
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sujith
I can't speak for other schools but I think Wharton uses a firm called Kroll to perform background checks, including verifying recommenders. Now this is limited to students who will be attending.
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Most schools do run background checks of admitted (and accepted) students (no point in wasting money on those that turn you down).
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Kellogg Reco query 02 Jan 2007, 14:09
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I would agree with Rhyme - way too much effort to call many of them.

I did see something for one of my schools (Yale? Stanford? Don't remember.) that said if your recommender submits his form from John.Smith@gmail.com, they are more likely to check into it than if it comes from jsmith@mycurrentworkplace.com.
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