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mcelroytutoring
UPDATE: Not to be outdone in the never-ending battle of the MBA standardized test duopolies, ETS has just announced a much-shorter 1 hour, 58 long version of the GRE, which will begin on September 22, 2003.


😂 the the race to the 1-question test.
Poor GMAC, they got only 2 months of bragging rights of having the shorter test… and GRE is coming out sooner. Ouch.

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UPDATE: Not to be outdone in the never-ending battle of the MBA standardized test duopolies, ETS has just announced a much-shorter 1 hour, 58 long version of the GRE, which will begin on September 22, 2003.

Wow!

We seem to be witnessing one of the most exciting (turbulent :)) times in the history of standardised testing!

PS: @mcelroytutoring; I think September 22, 2003* is a typo; must be September 22, 2023*

Thanks!
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Noted (and edited), thanks. 2003 was a long time ago!

Everyone wants an easier, quicker exam these days—and getting rid of the experimental section / argument essay on the GRE is undoubtedly a universally welcome development. The question is: how short is too short? I can't see how these exams could become any shorter, and yet still provide the sufficient sample size of questions for an accurate test score.

To state the obvious, a shorter GRE with 46% fewer questions (just 54 multiple-choice questions instead of 100, 80 of which counted toward your score) means that every question on the upcoming test will be worth more points—and that the exam's scoring curve will be more sensitive to careless and/or unlucky errors.

Thus, if anything, score variability aka "the casino effect" on both the new GRE and GMAT Focus will increase as a result of these changes.
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I guess technically GMAT already got shorter a few years ago and went from the 3.5 hr format to sub-3 hour format a few years ago when they took off 10 or 11 questions…

Frankly, I don’t know that I see much allure in the new GMAT. The new questions, sections, change your answer junk, difficulty changing, etc seems really complicated…. And I have a feeling a lot of people will hat DI section. SC was a much more manageable section.

Oh yes, and I bet GRE is not changing their scoring where the 655 is the new 700… 🤦‍♂️

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The new questions, sections, change your answer junk, difficulty changing, etc seems really complicated….

Oh yes, and I bet GRE is not changing their scoring where the 655 is the new 700… 🤦‍♂️

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For past one-minute, looking at the screen, 've been echoing your sentiment and laughing... :lol: :facepalm_man:
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We requested that GMAC put efforts to ensure that the b-schools (and student community) understand that ~655 is the new 700 and ~705 is the new 760 to avoid psychological benchmarks attached with such scores over so many years; they confirmed that they are working in that direction.
GMAC appears to be providing us with somewhat contradictory information regarding "classic" GMAT score equivalents on the GMAT Focus.

For example, according to the new percentile tables for the GMAT Focus, and the most recent percentile tables for the classic GMAT (but not the recently released score concordance table for the GMAT Focus), a classic GMAT 700 score equivalent (87%) would actually fall somewhere between a score of 635 (85%) and 645 (89%) on the new exam.

Note that classic GMAT scores of 770 and above are now also listed on the concordance table as "100th percentile"— which helps confirm my suspicion that these are actually just scores above 99.5%, rounded up. A score of 750 on the classic GMAT is now also listed as 99%, most likely rounded up as well (although on the 2nd table a 750 is still listed as 98%, strangely). Finally, notice that on the second table, all GMAT Focus scores of 735 and above are equivalent to a perfect 800 score on the current exam!

I still have no idea why GMAC thought that deflating GMAT Focus scores was a good idea...but here we are, nonetheless.


A quick glance at these two concordance tables is enough to realize that they contain conflicting data. For example, note that the first table lists a 750 as a 715 Focus equivalent / 99%, and the second table lists a 750 as a 695 Focus equivalent / 98%.

Likewise, the first table lists a 700 as a 655 Focus equivalent / 90%, and the second table lists a 700 as a 645 Focus equivalent / 89%.

What's up with that?

Classic GMAT Percentiles

GMAT Focus Percentiles

Official GMAT Focus vs. GMAT Classic Concordance Table (just released / images seen above)

I guess it's almost time to rename my 700+ GMAT score guarantee...
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One of the thing which is making me excited is the new logic based DS as claimed by ExpertsGlobal5 , but I wonder wasn't the existing DS section especially algebra already required logic to solve.. 🤔 was there any sample given in the seminar what exactly logic based DS mean ? Or if you could share some idea about it what it actually is.

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One of the thing which is making me excited is the new logic based DS as claimed by ExpertsGlobal5 , but I wonder wasn't the existing DS section especially algebra already required logic to solve.. 🤔 was there any sample given in the seminar what exactly logic based DS mean ? Or if you could share some idea about it what it actually is.

Posted from my mobile device

In the focus edition test-takers will encounter two types of DS:
1. DS that require math - same as the ones in the current version.
2. DS that doesn't require math - NEW addition

Example shown at the seminar for the NEW type:
The illness was caused by a virus, a bacterium, or a mold. Was it caused by a virus?
(1) It was not caused by a mold.
(2) It was caused by neither a bacterium nor a mold.

They took this "simple example" for explanatory purposes; we should expect more challenging questions at higher difficulty levels.

Hope this helps!
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Archit3110
One of the thing which is making me excited is the new logic based DS as claimed by ExpertsGlobal5 , but I wonder wasn't the existing DS section especially algebra already required logic to solve.. 🤔 was there any sample given in the seminar what exactly logic based DS mean ? Or if you could share some idea about it what it actually is.

Posted from my mobile device

In the focus edition test-takers will encounter two types of DS:
1. DS that require math - same as the ones in the current version.
2. DS that doesn't require math - NEW addition

Example shown at the seminar for the NEW type:
The illness was caused by a virus, a bacterium, or a mold. Was it caused by a virus?
(1) It was not caused by a mold.
(2) It was caused by neither a bacterium nor a mold.

They took this "simple example" for explanatory purposes; we should expect more challenging questions at higher difficulty levels.

Hope this helps!

There was a sense/thought the Focus Edition would be more Quant friendly in a way to the current version but if half the DS questions in the DI section are Verbal-based that would balance things.
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There was a sense/thought the Focus Edition would be more Quant friendly in a sense to the current version but if half the DS questions in the DI section are Verbal-based that would balance things.
Right.
So Data Insights will stay half-quant and half-verbal, like Integrated Reasoning.
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There was a sense/thought the Focus Edition would be more Quant friendly in a way to the current version but if half the DS questions in the DI section are Verbal-based that would balance things.

I have contrary thoughts.
Has anyone else noticed the mean scores for each section in GMAT Focus Edition? The mean score for Verbal is the highest among the three sections, and that for DI is the least. In the traditional GMAT, the mean score for Verbal is 28. However, in the new Focus Edition, the mean score for verbal is 79!
Generally speaking, in the traditional exam, Asians have a tendency to score higher in the Quant section, whereas native speakers have a tendency to score higher in the Verbal section. It will be interesting to see if there would be any demographic appropriation of the new GMAT Focus Edition.
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Thanks askhere.

Archit3110
This example and one more was taken in the event. I was a bit hesitant of sharing it openly (as GMAC sounded cautious about sharing the slides).

Nonetheless, all of this will be common knowledge in a few days; once the official mocks are out, things will be a lot clearer.

Thanks.


askhere
Archit3110
One of the thing which is making me excited is the new logic based DS as claimed by ExpertsGlobal5 , but I wonder wasn't the existing DS section especially algebra already required logic to solve.. 🤔 was there any sample given in the seminar what exactly logic based DS mean ? Or if you could share some idea about it what it actually is.

Posted from my mobile device

In the focus edition test-takers will encounter two types of DS:
1. DS that require math - same as the ones in the current version.
2. DS that doesn't require math - NEW addition

Example shown at the seminar for the NEW type:
The illness was caused by a virus, a bacterium, or a mold. Was it caused by a virus?
(1) It was not caused by a mold.
(2) It was caused by neither a bacterium nor a mold.

They took this "simple example" for explanatory purposes; we should expect more challenging questions at higher difficulty levels.

Hope this helps!
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GmatTutorKnight

There was a sense/thought the Focus Edition would be more Quant friendly in a sense to the current version but if half the DS questions in the DI section are Verbal-based that would balance things.
Right.
So Data Insights will stay half-quant and half-verbal, like Integrated Reasoning.

True.

GMAC seems to wish to maintain balance between Quant and Verbal as means for testing candidates' skills.

Regards,
Experts' Global
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Good morning TargetKellogg2024,

That's an interesting thesis about Verbal scores—but unfortunately, knowing that the average GMAT Focus Verbal subscore of 78.99 is now somewhat higher (relative to the new 60-90 scale) than the current average Verbal subscore of 27.51 (relative to the old 0-51 scale) does not conclusively tell us anything about the difficulty of the new GMAT Focus Verbal section.

In my opinion, it's much more likely that the GMAT Focus scaled score conversions have simply changed relative to performance, since classic GMAT Verbal subscores were always deflated relative to Quant subscores anyway. Note that the average GMAT Focus subscores of 74.41 on Data Insights, 77.71 on Quant, and 78.99 on Verbal are now much closer to one another than the current averages for Quant (41.3) and Verbal (27.51).

These new scoring scales appear to be GMAC's effort to finally "even things out" when it comes to making Quant and Verbal subscores more comparable.

Given that the content of the GMAT Focus has barely changed, with the lone exception of logic-based Data Sufficiency questions on the Data Insights section, I would expect the 23 Reading Comprehension and Critical Reasoning questions that remain on Verbal to stay difficult for most non-natives, even though Verbal subscores (but not percentiles) will appear higher thanks to the new scaled score conversions. The good news is that we will find out soon when the official guides finally ship!

In my experience, ESL speakers are actually quite skilled at Sentence Corrections, and will not benefit disproportionately from its removal on the GMAT Focus. CR and RC are now the only two Verbal sections left—which is good news for some test-takers, and bad news for others.






90% cutoffs: 81 for DI, 86 for Q, 84 for V

95% cutoffs: 83 for DI, 88 for Q, 85 for V

99% cutoffs: 85 for DI, 90 for Q (actually "100%"), 87 for V

"100%" cutoffs: 89 for DI, 90 for Q, 89 for V
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I'm considering taking GMAT to apply for government scholarships next year. Should I wait for GMAC or should I continue with GMAT?
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Good morning TargetKellogg2024,

That's an interesting thesis about Verbal scores—but unfortunately, knowing that the average GMAT Focus Verbal subscore of 78.99 is now somewhat higher (relative to the new 60-90 scale) than the current average Verbal subscore of 27.51 (relative to the old 0-51 scale) does not conclusively tell us anything about the difficulty of the new GMAT Focus Verbal section.

In my opinion, it's much more likely that the GMAT Focus scaled score conversions have simply changed relative to performance, since classic GMAT Verbal subscores were always deflated relative to Quant subscores anyway. Note that the average GMAT Focus subscores of 74.41 on Data Insights, 77.71 on Quant, and 78.99 on Verbal are now much closer to one another than the current averages for Quant (41.3) and Verbal (27.51).

These new scoring scales appear to be GMAC's effort to finally "even things out" when it comes to making Quant and Verbal subscores more comparable.

Given that the content of the GMAT Focus has barely changed, with the lone exception of logic-based Data Sufficiency questions on the Data Insights section, I would expect the 23 Reading Comprehension and Critical Reasoning questions that remain on Verbal to stay difficult for most non-natives, even though Verbal subscores (but not percentiles) will appear higher thanks to the new scaled score conversions. The good news is that we will find out soon when the official guides finally ship!

In my experience, ESL speakers are actually quite skilled at Sentence Corrections, and will not benefit disproportionately from its removal on the GMAT Focus. CR and RC are now the only two Verbal sections left—which is good news for some test-takers, and bad news for others.






90% cutoffs: 81 for DI, 86 for Q, 84 for V

95% cutoffs: 83 for DI, 88 for Q, 85 for V

99% cutoffs: 85 for DI, 90 for Q (actually "100%"), 87 for V

"100%" cutoffs: 89 for DI, 90 for Q, 89 for V

Hi mcelroytutoring,

Absolutely! I agree with you that the Verbal section wouldn't be any less difficult. I just feel that it will be relatively easier to score higher. Well, this high score will apparently not be comparable to high scores in the current version of GMAT, as you have mentioned, but will surely give a sense of high score because of GMAC's attempt to reduce the standard deviation of the Verbal scores.
I mean, what I feel is that if I answer 23 out of 36 questions correctly in current version of GMAT, I will score 28 (let's assume) and if I am given the same level of questions in the Focus Edition and if I score 16 out of 23 in that, I will score 78. Seeing a 28/51 is much worse than seeing a 78/90 to me.
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Ngocvb10
I'm considering taking GMAT to apply for government scholarships next year. Should I wait for GMAC or should I continue with GMAT?

It hardly matters.
I would not put your life on hold because of a couple questions will be removed from the test 😎

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