Marshall full tuition vs. reapply 3rd year in a row

Question

My profile: 760 GMAT, 3.92 GPA, 2.75 years as a management consultant with accenture. Have not worked for a year and a half and am currently unemployed. Took time off to train as a competitive cyclist. Unsure of where I want to be long-term but am leaning towards marketing/product development for a cycling manufacturer. Entertainment, sports are also fairly interesting industries to me. I am a white, male, from a midde income family with a business undergrad.

I attended the USC admit weekend and was bothered by the school's inability to address the falling ranking and falling employment %'s.

My major concerns: I want to attend the best school I can and USC's brand is regionalized and falling.
The vast majority of other admits to the school were from California and a significant % of those were from LA. I want a global setting and it felt like an LA reunion. Hell....2 guys in the admit weekend went to high school together. I feel as though my numbers should get me into a better school. Unf9ortunately, I applied to Harvard, stanford, berkeley, chicago in 2013 and was rejected by all 4. Interviewed only with chicago. This year I was interviewed and rejected by UCLA, Northwestern, rejected outright by chicago and duke and waitlisted at Michigan. I want to be the least intelligent person in the program I attend so that I can learn the most and be challenged greatly. At USC, my numbers outdo the averages by significant margins (690 GMAT and 3.4 GPA). It did not feel like the business school was a priority on campus like you see at Ross or at Kellogg. The facilities were very uninspiring.

I am worried that if I decide LA is not for me long-term, then the USC brand will not help me in better job markets like Chicago or D.C. additionally, when you think of the first 3 words that pop into your head about the USC brand, few are as positive as when I think of other top10 schools.

I am paying for school myself so declining full tuition remission is difficult. I have no job prospects and have not worked in a year and a half. I would have to take the first job that came along even if I didn't enjoy it. I would probably have to work there 2 years before getting letters of reccomendation and may need to retake the GMAT if I don't reapply before the 5 year timeframe runs out.

What do you guys think I should do?

mgg234 · Answer

I think definitely re-apply. You can do better with your stats. I'm generally against admissions consultants, but I think maybe you could use one, since if I had to guess why you didn't get into a top 20, it would be because you couldn't adequately spin your unemployment. Being a professional cyclist should be able to make a decent story if spun correctly. That said, you don't want another year gap on your resume, so definitely find a decent job before re-applying.

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domotron · Answer

The key question is how old are you? It sounds like you really are not enthused about going to Marshall. If I were in your shoes and providing you are not too old, I would wait 2-3 years and really build your resume back up. I think being unemployed for a significant period of time was clearly the killer to your chances. I don't think taking the first job that comes along now and re-applying in 6-8 months will get you much better results. By all means talk to admissions consultants to see what they think.

One thing I would say though, you talk about waiting to be the least intelligent person who gets admitted to a program. That would imply that you are probably the last person admitted or most likely to be a borderline applicant. Just from that logic, your chances of admission would be tough. No idea whether that came across your apps but schools are really interested in what you offer and if they feel you are all about "taking" they may also be put off.

gambelda · Answer

I think my 'least intelligent' point was misunderstood. USC has accepted a lot of very smart individuals, but I would rather be a medium fish in a big pond than a large fish in a small one. I will admit that I have a big ego and in many ways I see the large difference between my GMAT score and the average and think to myself that I can do better.

I am 26 years old and turn 27 in October. The difficult part is finding a good job quickly that isn't too big of a step back in the eyes of future schools I might apply to. That would probably make me 29 when I reapply and I would have to reapply in round I of all schools because I believe my gmat score would expire in mid august.

gambelda · Answer

I should clarify. I was not a professional. There are amateur races and I focused my training on those. Most people say an unemployment gap is no problem as long as you didn't sit on a couch. Well 50% of my time was focused around cycling and the rest was me just exploring different things I might like. Unfortunately, that stuff is very hard to verbalize in a resume or essay. I saved very well while working and used it to explore while I was yung. I even graduated undergrad early-in 3.5 years. I certainly think an admissions consultant would have helped.

DefyingGravity · Answer

Given your age and the significant employment gap, I would go with USC, unless you truly dislike the school. At one point you must have thought it was a decent school in order for you to apply. I do actually think it's a solid program, even if it's not a top 10. What made you apply initially?

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bb · Answer

Goes along with the point - never apply to a school you are not planning to attend....

domotron · Answer

I think this significant unemployment gap along with the fact that it was not professional cycling is probably the enormous red flag. While I don't doubt you will have great experiences from that time but it's difficult for the adcoms to fathom amateur cycling and exploring things that interest you for such a long time. Bearing in mind how tough it is to get admitted into a top 10 school, they will really have to go out on a limb to admit someone whose experience they don't understand. Great GMAT and GPA is just not enough by itserlf unfortunately. They have so many applicants with great stats AND great work experience who they deem to be lower risk.

Just to throw another question into the mix, I wonder how potential employers will perceive the gap if you attended USC. It may put you at a disadvantage to your peers?

AbhiJ · Answer

Unless you will have difficulty getting a job post MBA based on the gap in resume you would do good with USC. Duke, Ross, Cornell may accept you next year but you will have difficulty getting in Top 5. Since your goals are not Management Consulting, IB, USC should be good enough.
Please let us know about your final decision. It will act as a point of reference for future applicants.

lawgirl27 · Answer

Hi gambelda,

Indeed you are in a very difficult possition.

First of all, what reasons made you apply to USC in the first place? were you having second thoughts about Marshall since the beginning or was it only after going to admit weekend? (i also agree with other posts that say that you should not apply to a school you will not be willing to go).
Lets say you decide to reapply: what do you plan to do to improve your profile? You must also consider that it is possible that you don't get into any top program when you reapply now or in 2-3 years: what would be your plan B? How determined are you to go to b-school?
What are your biggest concerns about Marshall? Is it your employability post-MBA? Reputation? that you don't like the culture/community? is it its GMAT/GPA average? Do you think you will be unhappy there?

Also you mention that it might be difficult to find a job in Chicago/DC after a few years because you come from Marshall. I am no expert on that but from what many alumni told me an MBA helps you to get the first job postMBA but after that, other factors (such as the quality of your WE) play a bigger role. Of course the network and the brand help but it is not everything.

All this said, I would recommend you to think this through, a full tuition is something to consider seriously and especially in your current situation (in a job you don't like). For what you say it is obvious you would prefer another school but you have also need to think of the worst case scenario in which you reapply and still can't get in: What would you prefer: go to Marshall or stay at your current job/not go to b-school? Analyze all possible scenarios and make a decision. After all, b-school is a lot about opportunity cost.
 
On the other side, if you are not fully convinced about Marshall and then you go there and things do not turn out as you expect you will be comdening your decision forever and asking "what if", but if you wait and reapply and you can still not make it...

However, if you really dislike Marshall and you think you will be unhappy there I think you should not go, even with a full-tuition.

christinemmx86 · Answer

I'm not an Angelino and I was pretty impressed by this past weekend. I do however appreciate your honesty and can understand some of your apprehensions - they're what kept me from committing until now.

Your stats are pretty phenomenal for many programs and though not as high as yours, I'm a fair amount higher than Marshall's averages as well. Still, I was impressed by the admits I met and do believe in Marshall's ranking issues being somewhat of a fluke. Entertainment and tech's off season recruiting schedule skews their data and the choice of many second years to sit on an offer until a California one comes up is indeed pulling them down. Marshall and their Trojan network are easy to reach out to and I've heard similar stories of employment 4 months after graduation to be a choice as people waited out for THE COMPANY they wanted in THE PLACE they wanted. With graduation in early May - it makes sense why this pulls them down on many statistics.

That said this school isn't an HBS or Wharton - and I don't think it's in any way trying to become one. If you're looking for outright prestige I can understand why even full tuition may not be enough for you to feel right about matriculating. I saw everything I needed to follow through and am faithful in what USC has going for it.

While my application success had me leaning towards your desire to be a small fish in a big pond, my plan to switch careers sort of turned me against it. I'd love to say that I could be more easily recruited by a big consulting firm from a better school but in chatting with alums at some of those spots, I was no longer too sure of this given my background. I know that in a stack of resumes from some of the programs I was admitted at, I wouldn't stand out to recruiters. So while it's great seeing big names drawing steady numbers of recruits from certain programs, its never a guarantee.

I used to work in tech recruitment at "a large search engine" (lets just say) out of undergrad and I will say that tech companies are inundated with MBA applicants. Gaps in employment were large red flags and so unless you're predicting a substantial job coming your way in the next month it's going to make it hard for you to be more marketable next year. Even at a decent job, you'd have to make traction fast to be able to market the progress you've made on a resume. At the same time I was most impressed by how happy students seemed at Marshall - and if you're not feeling that way now, I can' imagine you magically falling in love with it. Relocating is a big ordeal and shouldn't be something you question.

Perhaps push for your luck at Ross? Have you visited classes and sent updates to the adcom? Two coworkers of mine are waitlisted and are being very proactive there.

Sorry to hear you didn't love SC - but certainly hoping you find what's right for you.

gambelda · Answer

I applied for the sole reason that I knew USC would accept me, probably with scholarship and I could leverage that scholarship against UCLA. While they are not tiered competitors, they are regional competitors who also have additional focuses in the same industries. I was very confident in admission to UCLA and figured $200 for an application was worth the risk that I might be able to leverage even 5-10k from UCLA down the road.

I guess it wasn't the sole reason - I do like the industries USC covers just as UCLA covers them. But if it was ever a decision between the two schools, I would have chosen UCLA 100% of the time

gambelda · Answer

I don't see the employment gap as a problem when I look for internship or job upon graduation. I can kill it in the program and extracurriculars and networking. The issue for me is that my undergrad was not known as a top school and I turned down a top school to attend and it ended up hurting me, especially when the school let their business ranking tank after I enrolled. I got a great job out of that school by working hard on my own with zero help from the school. The reason I chose that school is they said I could tailor my undergrad degree to fit what I wanted to do (exchange gen ed stuff for more interesting classes to me, etc.) Then when I got there, I found out that was basically one giant lie and I could do nothing like that at all. The Marshall pitch this weekend sounded eerily similar to what I heard when I was comparing undergrads (that you can talk to a professor about an idea and they can create a class around your idea in just a few weeks).

Here are my two issues:
1) I don't want to repeat what happened in undergrad, where simply the school brand holds me back in my job search and the information the school says I can do, I actually cannot.
2) If you asked me if I would rather pay $120k to have a strong brand on my resume or have USC's, my gut tells me to pay the money. If you look at average salaries of the graduates, I can also show you that I can make that 120k difference back in a few years. So the numbers are helping to support my gut.

I'm just worried and using this forum as a sounding board for my thoughts. Everyone's feedback is valued.

christinemmx86 · Answer

Seems like you're not feeling USC - which is the opposite of my experience this past weekend. I would base your decision off this gut feeling.

You're clearly an intelligent and driven individual and should pursue what makes you happiest and what will keep you from any bit of regret. I will say that in regards to UCLA vs USC it isn't a gargantuan difference in recruiting for tech (it's what I know most about from working at Google). But there was an unsaid cut off in recruitment regarding the school name on your resume. USC's name is big in California though it will be the name upon which your undergrad institution will be judged by.

Do any of the programs you were rejected by offer appointments to review your application? My boyfriend did so and was successful largely thanks to adcom members knowing him personally.

Again sad to hear you didn't love USC but definitely feel like you shouldn't settle on what will probably be the last school you'll ever add to your resume. I left this weekend so excited about my next 2 years. If you weren't feeling that way I wouldn't feel right committing to 2 years anywhere, regardless of compensation.

nosoupforyou · Answer

Be careful: If your GMAT expires in mid-august, then virtually no schools will let you apply with it (at least how it stands today; obviously that could change in 2 years).

I was in a very similar situation - I took the gmat early September 2008. When I went to apply to bschool this year (2013-14), my score was considered expired by a mere 2-5 weeks, depending on the school. (ARG!!!). Based on the written policies on each school's website, only Columbia and Kellogg would have accepted my old score (if I submitted the application very early - before the score's expiration date). (FYI I looked into most of the top 15 schools except Duke, UVA, and Ross).

Because of this, I ended up taking the GMAT again. If you don't think you're up for the GMAT again, then either go to USC or apply again immediately.

Additional thoughts:
1. You could down the deposit at USC but apply to Columbia Early Decision class of 2017 ASAP - I believe you would hear back before USC Starts (of course, you would have to be 100% committed to going to CBS)
2. It would probably be worth doing a free consultation with one or multiple admission consultants to get a professional's perspective, rather than internet stranger's opinion. In fact, I believe some offer "ding reviews" that you can pay for - maybe that would be worth it.

gambelda · Answer

My exam would probably expire. Fortunately, I am one of those freaks that LOVES the GMAT. I studied maybe 8 hours over a month long period before taking the exam. I took one practice exam and scored a 730. My real exam was a 760. I don't doubt I can repeat that number. The exam is like one giant puzzle to me and if there was a job that allowed me to sit all day and do GMAT problems, I would take that job in a heartbeat.

I may do the ding review. sucks to pay for an answer to "why I failed", but it may be very helpful. I have heard mixed reviews about these companies. Is there one you would recommend from personal experience?

lawgirl27 · Answer

After hearing your initial reasons to apply to Marshall and your concerns I think you should go with your gut. It seems you were never convinced by Marshall and you didn't enjoy your visit, so the what if will probably haunt you forever.
However, if you want to get into one of your target schools (to which you were previously rejected or other new ones) you will need to make a huge marketing effort and a consultant could help you with that. It seems the job gap was the problem or maybe not the job gap itself but how you "sold" it to the schools. You said you were focusing on amateur cycling but how exactly? For example I have a friend who left his job to do that but he did it to go around the world in a bybicle and manage to get sponsors and started a blog that became quite successful. The details here make the difference. You should make the most of your experience and try to leverage it for your apps. You would also need to do something different to enhance your profile, try to get a better job in which you could have a quick progression or if that is not plausible maybe you could get involved in an extracurricular in which you can show your leadership skills. 
After all, b-schools are looking for future business leaders and that means being able to overcome adversity and make the best out of it. You cannot go back on time so you better maximize what you have and start rebuilding your profile and redesign your application strategy.
However, you need to keep in mind that there is always the possibility that you reapply and still not get in. If I were you I would hire one of those ding reviews people mention in previous posts and also analyze if your objectives are plausible.

gambelda · Answer

I've received a couple PM's asking me to post my decision once I make it. I will do that - I have my deposit in @ USC to reserve my spot but am still undecided and may be so for at least another month. I think my plan is to job search very hard for a month and see if I can dig up something close to what I want to be doing. If so, then delaying for 2 years seems like the logical path because I can easily weave the job into my storyline. If not, then I'll make a decision in a month or later.

noodlesnyc · Answer

You still have time for a Round 2 or 3 app to INSEAD Jan 2016. If you get in, you can always forfeit your Marshall deposit. That would be an excellent option for you to take one last shot at a prestigious program that also includes the global perspective you're looking for.

asimov · Answer

I would take the USC offer. None of the cycling manufactures recruits out of the top MBA schools. USC degree is essentially the same as any other top MBA degree.

I won’t hold the admit weekend against USC. Given that USC is in a big city, I would expect to see a lot of admits from LA to attend. Additionally, even though USC does have a strong pull from California, there is a reasonable amount of students from elsewhere that you will undoubtly find a group to fit in.

Although getting in to a better school after 2-3 years of work experience is likely. It is not worth the difference in starting your post-MBA career earlier and the full-tuition scholarship that you are giving up.

Marshall full tuition vs. reapply 3rd year in a row

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