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sudden
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New HBS website and 2010 Class Profile Updated on: 25 Jul 2008, 14:34
Originally posted by sudden on 25 Jul 2008, 13:48.
Last edited by sudden on 25 Jul 2008, 14:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Only school I did not get an interview at... losers. I obviously should have been an international female minority working in consulting or VC / PE with less than three years of experience-- duh, why didn't I think of that!

I am also shocked at the trend toward younger applicants and the pathetically low 3% of accepted students coming from IM. Really? Seriously? 3%? It's tied with "Other" category, that's ridiculous.

(No sour grapes here, lol)
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I am curious to know what the Stanford numbers look like. If HBS only had a 12% acceptance rate, Stanford must have been around 7-8% I would think.
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sudden
I am curious to know what the Stanford numbers look like. If HBS only had a 12% acceptance rate, Stanford must have been around 7-8% I would think.
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Here's what I'm wondering - what is the acceptance rate at HBS or Stanford for people at the sweet spot (3 years of experience at matriculation). That's where I am at and if I were to guess it may be closer to 20% for HBS and 15% for Stanford?
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Stanford should be at 6-7% this year, as it was 7.8% last year.

terp, if you write your essays well and fit well with Stanford, I think you have a good shot at 15-30% admissions rate. :)
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kryzak
Stanford should be at 6-7% this year, as it was 7.8% last year.
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That would imply that those who got waitlisted were in the top 7-8%. Awesome. Somebody get me a cookie.
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kryzak
Stanford should be at 6-7% this year, as it was 7.8% last year.

terp, if you write your essays well and fit well with Stanford, I think you have a good shot at 15-30% admissions rate. :)
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It's so subjective and hard to tell - but it's definitely worth a shot on my end. Still worrying about Essay A although I think I'm making a bit of headway.
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sudden
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Stanford should be at 6-7% this year, as it was 7.8% last year.

That would imply that those who got waitlisted were in the top 7-8%. Awesome. Somebody get me a cookie.
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hahahahaha

Seriously, if they spent more than 5 minutes on your application, pat yourself on the back.
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Wow. HBS really is going younger. Thats good for me 8-)

What other top schools are going younger? Anyone know?
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Wow. HBS really is going younger. Thats good for me 8-)

What other top schools are going younger? Anyone know?
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Pretty much all of them. 25 is the new 28.

There are only a handful of holdouts.
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I think it depends on the industry though. MC and IB are typically on the younger side. Industry, engineers, and folks like that are on the older side. Besides schools seeming to trend younger overall, I think its the economy and the type of people b-schools like to admit. Bankers are very popular with schools now look at that industry over the past few years. IBs hired heavily several years ago but the industry has been tanking so people are getting let go or are deciding that going to school is a good idea at the time. While a few years ago people would stay in the workforce because the banks were doing so well and it seemed pretty stable. So a lot of young people with highly desirable profiles are applying.

I tend to think that certain people NEED to be older to really have a chance. If you are an engineer, typically your first few years out of school are highly technical and specialized. You are doing the leg work on projects not so much leading things. Its the nature of the career. Engineers also are the group that most often already have advanced degrees.

If you didnt go to a ultra elite undergrad, get a high gpa, and then get a bluechip career for a few years, having more work experience will most likely improve your chances. I bet if you look at the people with less than 3 years work experience a much higher percentage of them will be Harvard, Stanford, UPenn, Princeton, Yale, Columbia...etc undergrads and will work for the more impressive name companies than the rest of the student body.

I really dont think its the age that is whats getting these people into b-school, I think its what their profiles are like. They may just be admitting more of these folks than in the past and with a 30%+ increase in applications over the last few years there are certainly more to choose from.
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I think it depends on the industry though. MC and IB are typically on the younger side. Industry, engineers, and folks like that are on the older side. Besides schools seeming to trend younger overall, I think its the economy and the type of people b-schools like to admit. Bankers are very popular with schools now look at that industry over the past few years. IBs hired heavily several years ago but the industry has been tanking so people are getting let go or are deciding that going to school is a good idea at the time. While a few years ago people would stay in the workforce because the banks were doing so well and it seemed pretty stable. So a lot of young people with highly desirable profiles are applying.

I tend to think that certain people NEED to be older to really have a chance. If you are an engineer, typically your first few years out of school are highly technical and specialized. You are doing the leg work on projects not so much leading things. Its the nature of the career. Engineers also are the group that most often already have advanced degrees.

If you didnt go to a ultra elite undergrad, get a high gpa, and then get a bluechip career for a few years, having more work experience will most likely improve your chances. I bet if you look at the people with less than 3 years work experience a much higher percentage of them will be Harvard, Stanford, UPenn, Princeton, Yale, Columbia...etc undergrads and will work for the more impressive name companies than the rest of the student body.

I really dont think its the age that is whats getting these people into b-school, I think its what their profiles are like. They may just be admitting more of these folks than in the past and with a 30%+ increase in applications over the last few years there are certainly more to choose from.
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HBS and Stanford are definitely admitting a lot of kids with state school backgrounds and <=3 years of WE. I believe Columbia and Chicago are, as well. I agree with your statement for a school like Kellogg or Wharton.
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great analysis river, I never thought of it that way, but it makes sense.

Probably explains why Kellogg and Haas are the older schools, since they have a relatively larger % of admits in non-IB type jobs. Wharton I'm not sure, but they may be holding out just because. :)
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HBS and Stanford are definitely admitting a lot of kids with state school backgrounds and <=3 years of WE. I believe Columbia and Chicago are, as well. I agree with your statement for a school like Kellogg or Wharton.
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I hate to break it to you but people with state school backgrounds are vastly outnumbered by people from top privates. Going by who was admitted to Kellogg I can tell you that there are lots of schools represented but a large percentage come from just a dozen schools. Yes there are schools like U Michigan that send lots of people and some schools place well in the top schools in their region. I bet you will find a lot more U Illinois people at Chicago and Northwestern than at Columbia. It definitely is possible to get into a top school but talk to students at these schools and you will notice they admit people from the elite undergrads in FAR greater numbers.

I am not knocking state schools (I went to one) but its part of ones profile and not having a top 10 or 20 undergrad on your resume immediately puts you at a disadvantage. Yes there are differences between majors and gpa's. An engineer who had a 3.8 from a good school might be looked a lot better than someone with a 3.2 in sociology from Harvard. Unfortunately brand does matter.
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there are a few exceptions with top state schools, but unfortunately (for state school applicants), I have to agree with river's analysis. If you come from the top 3-5 state schools in the nation (Berkeley, Michigan, Virginia(?), UCLA), then your application will probably be treated pretty well by the adcoms of top MBA schools, but outside of that, it's either by a regional basis (like U of Illinois for the Midwest) or won't compare with top private schools.

It's definitely a sad reality...
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Wow. HBS really is going younger. Thats good for me 8-)

What other top schools are going younger? Anyone know?

Pretty much all of them. 25 is the new 28.

There are only a handful of holdouts.
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That's not really true. Harvard and Stanford are pushing the youth thing much harder than the rest of the top schools. And even Harvard does not have a median age of 25. If 41% of students had 3 years or less of work experience then 59% had more than 3 years. That most likely puts the median (50%tile) work experience at about 4 years. Since the average college graduate is 22 that means the median age of entering Harvard students is 26. And Harvard has clearly been pushing the youth movement more than anyone else. If their median age is 26, I'd be willing to bet most other top schools (excluding stanford) have a median age around 27. And don't forget that 50% of every MBA program is still filled with people over the median age. Schools might be a going a little bit younger, but its not nearly as exagerated as some seem to think.
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Wow. HBS really is going younger. Thats good for me 8-)

What other top schools are going younger? Anyone know?

Pretty much all of them. 25 is the new 28.

There are only a handful of holdouts.

That's not really true. Harvard and Stanford are pushing the youth thing much harder than the rest of the top schools. And even Harvard does not have a median age of 25. If 41% of students had 3 years or less of work experience then 59% had more than 3 years. That most likely puts the median (50%tile) work experience at about 4 years. Since the average college graduate is 22 that means the median age of entering Harvard students is 26. And Harvard has clearly been pushing the youth movement more than anyone else. If their median age is 26, I'd be willing to bet most other top schools (excluding stanford) have a median age around 27. And don't forget that 50% of every MBA program is still filled with people over the median age. Schools might be a going a little bit younger, but its not nearly as exagerated as some seem to think.
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I think the real question to ponder is that of admit rates. 41% of HBS' class has <= 3 years of experience and 59% of the class has > 3 years of experience. However, I strongly doubt that the same breakdown can be said for applicants. If I were to guess, only 25% of applicants to HBS or any other top school have <= 3 years of WE and about 75% probably have > 3. Take a look at the profiles on GMATClub, profile evaluation requests on other forums, Admissions411, etc. - they're not the most accurate measure of course, but I think they paint the picture that the average applicant has 4-6 years of WE.
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kryzak
there are a few exceptions with top state schools, but unfortunately (for state school applicants), I have to agree with river's analysis. If you come from the top 3-5 state schools in the nation (Berkeley, Michigan, Virginia(?), UCLA), then your application will probably be treated pretty well by the adcoms of top MBA schools, but outside of that, it's either by a regional basis (like U of Illinois for the Midwest) or won't compare with top private schools.

It's definitely a sad reality...
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I think this is truly overplayed. The reality is that most kids coming out of the state schools won't have very impressive work experience. If they're in IT, Accounting, or some other back office function that makes it difficult to show leadership - that is the reason they will get dinged, not because they went to University of Iowa or SUNY Buffalo. By the same principle - I dare anyone on this board to find me a Harvard, Princeton, or Yale undergrad who works as a staff accountant. I'd be truly impressed if someone showed me that.

Remember, Undergrad was quite a while ago for most people and selecting where you wanted to attend Undergrad was truly ages ago. I think Adcoms are far more concerned with what you've been doing the last 2 years than what you've been doing at any other point in time. It's the most accurate snapshot of what you will be like at B-School. People mature, change, turn around all the time and you want to make sure that you are catching them at their peak.

In fact, I think HBS and other schools really enjoy admitting students from state school backgrounds - as long as they are convinced that these are some of the top kids that graduated from their state school and they shot out of that school like a cannonball into a rapidly accelerating career with a lot of leadership/impact. It adds to the diversity of the class significantly.

I think it's the same thing for undergraduate admissions to a degree. Is the kid from Groton or Andover or Harvard-Westlake or some NYC prep school who graduated with honors likely going to succeed and be a good fit for Harvard or Princeton or Yale? You can bet on it. But can you fill your whole class with kids like this and turn away people just because they went to a public school in Alabama? No way.
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terp, you might want to check with terry12 on Stanford. He mentioned to me that pretty much everyone he met there during admit weekend were from top private schools, and very few from state schools. If they were, they're from Berkeley, UCLA, or Michigan.

I don't know Harvard that well, but based on Stanford's record, I guess one can extrapolate a bit.

As for median ages, Stanford is at 26, with the 80% range from 24-30. This was from last year's class.
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kryzak
terp, you might want to check with terry12 on Stanford. He mentioned to me that pretty much everyone he met there during admit weekend were from top private schools, and very few from state schools. If they were, they're from Berkeley, UCLA, or Michigan.

I don't know Harvard that well, but based on Stanford's record, I guess one can extrapolate a bit.

As for median ages, Stanford is at 26, with the 80% range from 24-30. This was from last year's class.
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I am most worried about Stanford and Wharton in that regard. Terry's comment seems absolutely right on mark about Stanford. Harvard has a huge class though and has plenty of space for state school kids.
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I am most worried about Stanford and Wharton in that regard. Terry's comment seems absolutely right on mark about Stanford. Harvard has a huge class though and has plenty of space for state school kids.
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Probably true for Harvard.
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