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18 Jan 2013, 11:03
Shawshank wrote:
joy4ol wrote:
@LatAmMan that's an awfully helpful post there. Thnaks...

@LatAmMan, @Shawshank I understand I can apply to these joint degree program while still in year 1. What is the selectivity level of these MA/MPA type of courses at say Kennedy School or SAIS? Can a person with no related experience (as in my case) get into these programs based on pure interest?

On a separate note, was a little bummed to see that GS, JPM, Barclays, CS, Amex, BOA, hadn't hired a single international candidate from Darden last year (though DB, Citi, Fidelity, Jefferies and Nomura did). Even though I don't see myself going into ibanking right now, this data point is certainly not reassuring. Is it a matter of self-selection or am I missing something very basic here? Can somebody in the know chime in. Btw, Tuck doesn't break this information for internationals so no idea what's up with internationals there. I will also drop in a mail with the career services of both schools.

Yes, you don't need to have public sector experience to apply to policy programs. Actually you would stand out given your private sector work. Apply to kennedy and sais since tuck has formal joint degrees with both programs. Avoid columbia sipa; it has a very weak career services, weak student body and is just a cash cow for columbia university.

As I said before, darden makes little sense for your career goals. I'm NOT bashing darden by any means; it's a great general management program and for vast majority of people, darden will get them to where they need to be. In your case however, you should go to tuck. Or if you are willing to wait, strengthen your resume and re-apply to booth/sloan/wharton next year. But i'm guessing that you want to go this year.

QFT. I know people who have gone to HKS and SAIS with private sector only experience...the adcoms actually really like that kind of experience, as far as I can tell. Admissions rates are in the 20-30% for both schools, last I checked, though the data simply isn't there like it is for top MBA programs. If you have a GMAT in the 80% band for Tuck and Darden you have the scores for HKS and SAIS...the student body in general would stat wise be slightly weaker than a top MBA. Also, agreed completely with Shawshank...SIPA is a cash cow and ought to be avoided.
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Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] ### Show Tags 18 Jan 2013, 13:08 5 This post received KUDOS Go to Tuck. Even though Darden places at BBs, it's still not a core finance school and the competition will be tougher (less spots for each bank, more students). Also as an international student, you will get beat out more by US based students who will do a better job networking for the few spots. In the same time, overall quality of Tuck students will be higher than Darden's, making it a more competitive process from that perspective. 100K is like first year bonus at a BB (pre tax though). You will survive. At Fuqua (similar to Darden) and landed a BB summer associate role. Saw these play out first hand. Senior Manager Joined: 24 Mar 2010 Posts: 347 Followers: 7 Kudos [?]: 107 [0], given: 4 Re: Tuck vs Darden ($$$+chance at prestigious fellowship) [#permalink] ### Show Tags 18 Jan 2013, 14:01 abacab wrote: Go to Tuck. Even though Darden places at BBs, it's still not a core finance school and the competition will be tougher (less spots for each bank, more students). Also as an international student, you will get beat out more by US based students who will do a better job networking for the few spots. In the same time, overall quality of Tuck students will be higher than Darden's, making it a more competitive process from that perspective.$100K is like first year bonus at a BB (pre tax though). You will survive.

At Fuqua (similar to Darden) and landed a BB summer associate role. Saw these play out first hand.

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19 Jan 2013, 14:53
abacab wrote:

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19 Jan 2013, 15:32
joy4ol wrote:
Congrats on your BB summer, Abacab. Is there a substantial difference in the number of recruitment slots that banks decide on at semi-core programs such as Fuqua/Darden? As I said before, I am a bit worried about the absence of international recruits at the top BBs like GS and JPM at Darden last year. You are right of course, about the likelihood of tougher competition for BB slots at Tuck. So if the difference is substantial, this will be an important point to consider.

Yes there is a substantial difference. Banks like Morgan Stanley or JPM might have only 1-2 slots for a non-core school while Wharton or Harvard will have 7-8 spots. Not to mention the numbers you will see for JPM or GS are diluted by PWM roles and some IB roles are actually for international students home countries like Tokyo office which should not be counted. Then there is the group placement where your brand and alumni connection matters, along with post summer offer success. If you were at a place like Chicago, Columbia or Wharton where 70% of students are trying IB, competition is really bad. But a non finance, but top school like Kellogg or Tuck is much better for IB numbers game. There won't be enough qualified students on campus to compete with (many will try for consulting, true for Darden and Fuqua as well). Your short term goal is not IFC, it's a BB. If you land there, you can go to IFC regardless of Darden, Tuck or UNC. So go somewhere that will put you in best shape for BB. Recruiting is a tough game and everyone in each school thinks they will end up at MBB consulting or BB, and only a small portion does.
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19 Jan 2013, 17:06
Actually I know Booth students who wanted banking real bad and didn't get it without taking a dump at MDs desk. EOD at a top MBA almost everyone will be employed and no one will keep track of who didn't end up in first choice. Do agree on the strong consulting movement. Again did everyone who wanted McKinsey got it or ended up at Deloitte or something? Hard to say.

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20 Jan 2013, 14:56
Not saying any place will guarantee a job. Just good to be aware that you could be on the half empty side as easily and best to stack up in the favorable side and put in the leg work.

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22 Jan 2013, 09:18
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Hi all,

I am a second year student at Darden, and wanted to offer a couple of thoughts. Understandably, decision-making time is not always easy and you want to make an informed decision as possible. So I hope my perspective might be of help.

First off, figuring out how many people went to certain banks and comparing across schools can be misleading - and in my view, isn't the right reason to attend a school. I'm not saying the numbers are wrong. But, looking purely at placement numbers doesn't account for the total number of offers that were given out (and then accepted or declined), nor does it account for the vastly different class sizes in some of the comparisons. While I do think it is important to see the types of employers that recruit from each school, I am skeptical that digging deep into the data will be the best basis for your decision.

Secondly - and I will just speak only for Darden since I haven't attended the other programs - but I was very impressed by the caliber and range of employers that Darden attracted in the Investment Banking field. Admittedly, I did not recruit for banking so I didn't go through this particular process. But, I did work at GS for 4 years prior to school, so I am fairly familiar with the industry, and I can't think of a major IB player who I did not see on campus with the exception maybe of some of the boutiques. Point is, banking is one of Darden's strengths as far as recruiting goes. As a side note, I saw some concern on the thread about international student recruiting - I am happy to connect you with international classmates who went into finance/banking, if you send me a message.

Third, I do agree that rankings are important - and cause some of the school decisions to be really difficult - but as important, I believe, is the idea of "fit." In your gut, is there a program that feels right for you? To me, this is very important because the MBA was, in my opinion, a life experience, rather than just a mechanism to change jobs. You will hopefully make friends and networks, learn about truly difficult skills beyond the coursework like communication and teamwork, travel to places you've never been, take part in fun school traditions, encounter unexpected challenges, meet inspiring professors or business leaders, and take steps towards a great career. Consider the environment in which you think you will thrive and take advantage of these opportunities. For me (again, personally), of course I wanted to get in front of the employers I was most interested in, but I tend to think you will have that opportunity at any top school - and at that point it's largely up to you to land it (not a brand name). I made what I thought was a tough choice at the time to come to Darden (I was targeting companies in California, where I also had offers from MBA programs), but I went with my gut; in retrospect, I couldn't have been happier with my decision, and it turns out, I'm headed to California afterwards. I'm not saying that Darden is right for everyone - it might not be! My point is that choosing an MBA program is a personal choice and hopefully through campus visits, honest conversations with students/staff, and some research, you will cut through the noise and get a good sense for the program that feels best for you holistically, including recruiting and other considerations.

Lastly, Tuck vs Darden vs some of the other great programs I have seen on this thread - all great options. At the end of the day, it's what you make of it and, the MBA is a great experience so I think you will have a good time wherever you go.

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