Rejected three years in a row ..quit trying?

Question

This forum has been extremely helpful during my application periods, so I thought it would be a good place for advice. This year marks my third year of zero admits. Well technically I am on the wait-list at Ross, but I don't see that turning into an admit. In the first two application periods, I foolishly picked only top 10 schools. My stats are hardly impressive (3.0 GPA from a top 50 private U and a 690 GMAT), and I was rejected without interviews in both years. This year I applied to schools throughout the top 15 or so. I received interview invites at Ross (my first choice) and McCombs. McCombs rejected me along with Stern and Darden. I have 5.5 years of experience as a risk manager on a trading desk at one of the world's largest asset managers

My question is: Should I give up at going to a "top 20" b-school? I know my GPA is on the lower end of the spectrum. I was a D-1 football player; and, I didn't manage my time as well as I should have. At this juncture, matriculating at a b-school seems like a pipe dream, but its something that I really want.

My question is: Should I give up at going to a "top 20" b-school? I know my GPA is on the lower end of the spectrum. I was a D-1 football player; and, I didn't manage my time as well as I should have. At this juncture, matriculating at a b-school seems like a pipe dream, but its something that I really want.

cheetarah1980 · Answer

There are people with lower GPAs and/or GMAT scores who have gotten into Top 20 b-schools. In my opinion something else is going on with your apps that's preventing you from having more success. The schools that you've targeted are definitely possible.

Did you enlist any help with your applications each year?

someone79 · Answer

You are in good company. Don't lose hope. Sometimes it takes time to get where we want to go, but it's worth the wait.

LadyRoadWarrior · Answer

First of all - you have some serious fortitude to go through this crazy process three times and not give up!
Looks to me like you might be having execution issues, as your stats are fine (not stellar, but fine). Leads me to believe that you are making some mistakes in the way that you are presenting yourself to adcomms.

I could give better advice with some more context:
1. How many times have you taken the GMAT? Results?
2. What did you study in College?
3. What are your post MBA goals?
4. Who (if anyone) helped you with your applications (buddy at work, former college friend who has an mba, consultants, etc)

cheetarah1980 · Answer

Yeah, what she said. While batman's advice will definitely help your cause it may be unnecessary. Real talk, I had a 2.7 GPA, with a downward trend including an F in a business class 2nd semester senior year. I did not create an alternate transcript nor did I get a 730+ on the GMAT. You need to understand where your profile plays in admissions land. If you were an Indian engineer in IT, I think batman's advice would definitely apply. You need to know the right levers to hit for YOUR candidacy. Since you were a D1 varsity athlete the 3.0 isn't a deal breaker. Your GMAT is below many schools' average but within every schools 80% range. As LRW said something else is going with your apps and it goes beyond your stats.

SCBooth · Answer

1. I have taken the GMAT three times. 620, 570, and 690
2. I studied business admin with concentration in finance and minors in Econ and Philosophy
3. post-mba goals are to shift in strategy consulting.
4. I consulted two individuals that I work with both of whom have MBAs from Stern. They also provided my recommendations.

A bit more bio info: I am a 27 year old African-American male. First in my family to go college. I have been with the same firm for 5.5 with steady promotions since I started at the company.

LadyRoadWarrior · Answer

Thanks! Don't retake the GMAT. 690 is well within the 80th percentile for these schools. I'm not sure that alternative transcript is really necessary either - 3.0 is a perfectly fine GPA in a relevant major, and you have a legitimate story about D1 sports taking some of your attention away from academics. Batman and I just agree to disagree, he's a bit more of a stats ho than I am :lol:

The more I read, the more certain I am about execution issues. Guys with your background get into top 20 programs left and right.

cheetarah1980 · Answer

1. Three times for the GMAT is enough. You had major improvement the 3rd time. My only question would be what was your breakdown. Did you at least hit a Q45? 2. Did you have steady grades, an eclectic mix throughout all four years, upward trend, or downward trend? How did you do in your quant based classes? Did you write the optional essay in your applications? 3. Asset management to strategy consulting could make sense. Your issue here is likely to be in execution rather than the actual goals themselves. Is strat consulting your anticipated end game or is it a means to an end? 4. Alums are usually good sounding boards. However, if they graduated more than 5 years ago they may be a bit out of touch with the current application landscape. Also, how much input did you have into their recommendations? In what capacity do both of these people know you. Although I doubt their recommendations would have HURT your application they may not have helped it either. The more you write the more I think there is an issue with your application execution and possibly a lack of leadership in your profile. This is my best guess based off the limited information given. Without seeing your resume, essays, etc. my gut has to lead on this one. Given your current age I'm thinking that you weren't successful your first year due to a lack of experience in comparison to other applicants. The last two years, if you've had steady promotions at work and improved your GMAT, and applied through the Consortium, and are a URM you are in line with others in your applicant pool. I wouldn't give up. Read the series of posts from Oh Denny on the Senator's blog https://thesenator2014.wordpress.com/201 ... -part-one/ (three part series starts with that post). There are others who have been in a similar position. OhDenny did it and I really believe that you have the tools to do it too. You just have to learn to use them.

cheetarah1980 · Answer

batman, I'm not saying that you didn't give sound advice. And if he did as you suggested he would definitely improve his profile. What LRW and I are saying is that it is likely NOT necessary for him to do as you're suggesting. His application is definitely lacking something. However, I do not think this is stats based. There are people in his exact applicant pool who have gotten into top 15 schools this year with full rides and they have similar or lower stats than SCBooth. He needs to be aware of what lane he is playing in and what the touch points are for it. If he's focusing on improving something that the adcom didn't have a problem with in the first place then he's not focusing his energies efficiently. That's all LRW and I are saying.

SCBooth · Answer

I'd like to thank you all for your recommendations. I had a great deal of input into the recommendations. I let my recommenders read my essays, and made sure to have them address the weak points in my application. As far as leadership, throughout college and my professional life, I think that I have demonstrated my ability to lead. I have a solid community service background and was an editor for the university newspaper for my last two years in undergrad. In my professional life, I was instrumental in avoiding any major losses at the height of the financial crisis, and spearheaded several organization changing initiatives.

At this point, I may just have to concede that this isn't in the cards for me. Assuming I get dinged by Ross, I am not sure if I have that much more relevant material for any essays going forward. I don't see how I can possibly sell myself anymore

At this point, I may just have to concede that this isn't in the cards for me. Assuming I get dinged by Ross, I am not sure if I have that much more relevant material for any essays going forward. I don't see how I can possibly sell myself anymore

cheetarah1980 · Answer

I encourage you not to lose heart. If Ross put you on the WL that means you are admissable. I strongly encourage you to seek out a "ding analysis." I don't know if you've had one done before. I think it can help you see where your application was weak. As I said previously, it's really hard for us to say what went wrong without actually seeing your application materials. I honestly believe you have all of the right pieces to the admissions puzzle, you just need to figure out how to put them together correctly. I sincerely wish you the best of luck

roboas · Answer

You're a D1 football player - I would imagine less than 10% of all applicants were D1 athletes. This is a huge advantage.

You've worked at the same firm for nearly 6 years - use your supervisors / mentors to help you get your applications squared away. Did any of them go to a top 10 business school?

Tell a good story in your essays - make it unique, so you stand out. I think you've presented three salient points in your post that you can use to your advantage to seperate you from others who have similiar stats.

Remember, business and leadership experience go further than stats do in your applications.

method · Answer

Send me your stuff man. Essays, ECs, Recs, all of it. For real, PM if you're willing and I'll send you my email address and we'll go from there. You are top 16 material,  no question about it.

My guess is that your first mistake, assuming you put this in your essays, was naming strategy consulting as your career goal.

OasisGC · Answer

Hello,

I fully agree with previous replies to your thread.

Your profile does not seems to have any issue that can actually block your chances to top 15.

There are multiple factors that can lead to rejection such as

1) Wrong timing
2) Your stories in essays (especially the ones that can highlight your strengths and make you stand unique)
3) Clarity of goals (I have seen many successful candidates getting dings just because unclear goals that really confuse the adcom)

Did you really get the ding analysis done (not necessarily with an admission consultant) or did you seek feedback from the schools (believe me, if you seek feedback, some are more than happy to help with concrete feedback)

Last but not least, do not loose the battle.

I would suggest

1) Get ding analysis done and seek feedback from school
2) Devise strategies to improve weaker areas
3) You can choose to have multiple views on your strategies to improve on your areas (here at GC)

Hit the apps again... i am sure you would be a HAPPY person this time.

All the Best

threestripes · Answer

Hey SCBooth,

First of all, I would like to let you know that your persistence is impressive. Not a lot of people are determined enough to go through this process three times. It only shows how much you want this.

Second, based on what you have shared so far, it seems that your profile is a lot more impressive than mine. I applied with a 690 GMAT and 2.85 GPA, but I was lucky enough to be accepted by a few top 15 schools. Your stats are fine, and the rest of your profile is appealing and unique enough. Therefore, I would have to agree with the others. I believe that there may be something off with your execution. I have posted about my application experience, so you might want to take a look at it (see signature for the link) to see if you could adopt bits and pieces of my strategy when I reapplied this year.

Last, I would like to encourage you to keep trying. You got waitlisted at Ross this year. This means you did something right and that you are a qualified candidate. If you determine what other aspects of your application package you need to improve, I truly believe that you will make it this year (if Ross doesn't accept you this year).

Good luck, and please be assured that I am willing to help if necessary!

Posted from my mobile device

GMATLA · Answer

Your stats are not that weak, so I would have to think there was something else with your application that was poorly crafted, or probably hurt you. A top 25 is within reach, although a Top 10 may not. Also, once you apply to a school once, it is an uphill battle because you have to reapply, and they want to see how you've grown over the year. I would check out our comprehensive reapplicant guide for more information on how to be successful in the process: comprehensive-re-applicant-guide-131675.html

There is no reason why you can't get into a top school, you just have to create a better entire package. If it's your dream, I wouldn't let anything stand in your way. DOn't get down on yourself, and grow through the next application season. Also, don't give up on the school where you're on the waiting list. Do everything you can to try to get in!!! Check out my post here on waitlist management: waitlist-guide-to-earning-yourself-an-admit-129448.html

Also, to increase your chances, a GMAT retake might help, an admissions consultant or essay review specialist can help you build a better application, and growth within your company career etc... can get you there. Figure out what the problem is, and fix it.

Good luck!

SCBooth · Answer

Thank you all for the good advice. If I had to guess, I would assume that my career goals may not be as clear and concise as I thought. Hopefully, Ross works out and I can put this matter to rest.

ShivKaul · Answer

Dear SCBooth,

Just read the posts and thought of throwing my hat in here - just for one important reason - ur persistence. Like LRW said, doing the apps just once is enough to drain someone, persisting for 3 years is almost super-human! I really feel for u and pray that u don't give up on ur dream.

Now coming to what I think about here.
First, I have to agree with Cheets and LRW (although she's not gonna be a fellow Boothie!) here. The problem is OUTSIDE ur stats for sure. I don't recommend u taking the tests just as yet. It is more important to identify ur weak point(s) first. That is of utmost importance. All the suggestions given above are good; u must ask for feedbacks from schools and consultants.

Second, and this is what I just gathered after reading ur posts, u say that u have taken all ur feedbacks from ur two friends who are also ur recommenders, right?? Now, I see a lot of problems here and the MAJOR one is this - I assume that if ur colleagues have given u help on ur essays then naturally they must have helped u edit them too, right? On top of it, they wrote the reccos too. I can almost get a sense that ur essays and the reccos may be sounding alike!!!!! Giving the impression to the adcoms that u may have written the reccos ur self !!!!! Now, I am NOT saying that u did that, but is it possible that the English in these may sound similar??

One thing I can assure u is that if the adcoms get even a whiff of plagiarism or cheating anywhere, they will drop that person like a hotcake! In ur case, unfortunately,it may have been the other way round, since ur friends are writing ur reccos too!

Just have a hard look at ur essays; request ur colleagues to show u the reccos so that u can compare the prose/English/flow etc. Who knows, after reading ur essays, maybe one of ur reccomenders, in order to save time (as they all are busy), may have put almost the verbatim language in the recco too - and that is sure to spell doom.

This may be a long shot but I thought of giving u my two cents! I will be happy if my wild imagination emerges wrong but just in case it ain't, at least u know where the problem lies.

Best,
Sam

novanative · Answer

I think your experience puts you in strong contention for a Top 25 school for sure, though a Top 5 or Top 10 is a stretch. Like everyone above me said, you may not have expressed yourself well enough in regards to your goals, etc.

I think your experience as a D-I football player, your comm. service, and your work experience should be good enough to put you in contention for a lot of great programs. Good luck.

OhDenny · Answer

I wasn't going to weigh in here as I've agreed with most of what everyone's said, (and thanks to Cheetarah for the shoutout), but there is one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet.

Have you considered taking a year off from the application process? The conventional wisdom is that taking a year off will cause you to lose momentum, and give up the process altogether. However, when I made the conscious decision to regroup and rebuild, I felt really energized, and was able to wholeheartedly throw myself into my new job. I'm not saying you have to change jobs, but perhaps doing a pivot to increased responsibilities in your current firm, or getting additional leadership experience in a different practice-area or division. I realized for me, I had just run out of stories to tell that would differentiate me from the pack. The year off gave me a wealth of new stories to tell (overcoming a challenge, facing culture shock, beat expectations, etc.), and even helped me to crystalize WHY I wanted the damn MBA in the first place. In hindsight, I think I just needed that extra year to grow up more than anything else.

I don't think this is a panacea for every multi-year reapplicant, but it certainly helped me a great deal. Just thought I'd mention it for some extra perspective. Again - don't lose hope. You'd be surprised how much capacity people have (including yourself!).

Rejected three years in a row ..quit trying?

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