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jeffdill
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Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Last visit: 01 Sep 2014
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Location: United States
Concentration: Strategy, Operations
Schools: Wharton '16 (D) Duke '16 (WL) Kellogg '16 (D) CBS '16 (D) HBS '16 (D) Kenan-Flagler '16 (A) Ross '16 (M$)
GMAT 1: 660 Q44 V38
GMAT 2: 700 Q44 V41
GPA: 3.55
WE:Engineering (Manufacturing)
Schools: Wharton '16 (D) Duke '16 (WL) Kellogg '16 (D) CBS '16 (D) HBS '16 (D) Kenan-Flagler '16 (A) Ross '16 (M$)
GMAT 2: 700 Q44 V41
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Retake Question 13 Jul 2013, 09:07
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Not sure if this is the right section of the forum for this!

So I just retook the GMAT today. I improved my score from 660 to 700, but unfortunately, all of the gains were in verbal. I really don't know how I only got Q44, I was scoring Q48-49 on my practice tests. I'm really frustrated! :x

Some background: I'm an American, undergrad was in engineering, good GPA. I'm looking to go into General Management / Consulting. I expect my application essays to be very good.

Anyway, you can see my target schools on the left there. My goal was to do round 1 applications for all of them. Obviously HBS and Wharton are big stretches but I'm really shooting for Duke. Will my relatively low quant score eliminate me from contention, or will my strong math background in undergrad help offset my poor performance on the test?

I'm considering retaking the test again, which would probably hurt my applications. Or I could just send them out and hope for the best.

Advice is appreciated!!!
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Retake Question 13 Jul 2013, 10:56
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Why would retaking the GMAT hurt your apps?

This is probably a more appropriate topic for some admissions consultants to weigh in.


Posted from my mobile device.
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jeffdill
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Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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Posts: 66
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Location: United States
Concentration: Strategy, Operations
Schools: Wharton '16 (D) Duke '16 (WL) Kellogg '16 (D) CBS '16 (D) HBS '16 (D) Kenan-Flagler '16 (A) Ross '16 (M$)
GMAT 1: 660 Q44 V38
GMAT 2: 700 Q44 V41
GPA: 3.55
WE:Engineering (Manufacturing)
Schools: Wharton '16 (D) Duke '16 (WL) Kellogg '16 (D) CBS '16 (D) HBS '16 (D) Kenan-Flagler '16 (A) Ross '16 (M$)
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Retake Question 13 Jul 2013, 11:06
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Thanks for moving this, I realized this is a more appropriate section after I posted it!

When I say retaking may hurt apps I mean that studying would take some time away from essays, it might affect the quality, who knows. Plus the cost of retaking! I get the impression I should go round 1 with my profile, so I was hoping to still make those deadlines.

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Retake Question Updated on: 16 Jul 2013, 00:15
Originally posted by Admissionado on 15 Jul 2013, 02:06.
Last edited by Admissionado on 16 Jul 2013, 00:15, edited 1 time in total.
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jeffdill
Thanks for moving this, I realized this is a more appropriate section after I posted it!

When I say retaking may hurt apps I mean that studying would take some time away from essays, it might affect the quality, who knows. Plus the cost of retaking! I get the impression I should go round 1 with my profile, so I was hoping to still make those deadlines.

Posted from my mobile device
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Well, the BIG question is: what is the REST of your profile like?

Getting into a school like HBS (or any other top school for that matter) has less to do with GMAT and more to do with pedigree + experience + essays. The GMAT is more of a "minimum requirement", and technically, a 700 is good enough to get you into any MBA program in the world. The question is rather, what does the REST of your profile look like?
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Joined: 24 Apr 2013
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Location: United States
Concentration: Strategy, Operations
Schools: Wharton '16 (D) Duke '16 (WL) Kellogg '16 (D) CBS '16 (D) HBS '16 (D) Kenan-Flagler '16 (A) Ross '16 (M$)
GMAT 1: 660 Q44 V38
GMAT 2: 700 Q44 V41
GPA: 3.55
WE:Engineering (Manufacturing)
Schools: Wharton '16 (D) Duke '16 (WL) Kellogg '16 (D) CBS '16 (D) HBS '16 (D) Kenan-Flagler '16 (A) Ross '16 (M$)
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Retake Question 15 Jul 2013, 06:56
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JonAdmissionado
Well, the BIG question is: what is the REST of your profile like?

Getting into a school like HBS (or any other top school for that matter) has less to do with GMAT and more to do with pedigree + experience + essays. The GMAt is more of a "minimum requirement", and technically, a 700 is good enough to get you into any MBA program in the world. The question is rather, what does the REST of your profile look like?
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Thanks for the reply, Jon. I just wanted to be sure that my score is good enough to "check the box" for GMAT at a school like Harvard, Chicago, etc. I know the other aspects of my application are equally or even more important, but GMAT score is one of the few things that I can actually control at this point - I don't want it to hold me back. It sounds like you think it should be sufficient.

But as for the rest of my profile:
-25 year old American male
-Graduated in Industrial Engineering at a large state school
-3.55 undergrad GPA, 3.84 major GPA
-700 GMAT (44Q, 41V) - expect an 8 in IR and a 6 in AWA
-Four years work experience (at matriculation) in an engineering position (R&D)
-No real leadership experience in job or extra curriculars (this is the part that concerns me most, but it's not like there's anything I can do about it at this point - my letters of recommendation will have to help with this)
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Retake Question 15 Jul 2013, 07:33
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Hey Jeff,

To your original question and as Jon mentioned, a 700 puts you in the club. With a 3.5+ in an engineering program and a 700, the adcoms won't be concerned with your academic ability. It isn't a differentiator, but it's definitely in play. Also, if you're looking to move to management consulting, it clears the cut off most firms place (a lot have GMAT score requirements kind of like in undergrad firms had GPA cut offs).

My main question for you is why are you looking to apply this year? You'll have 3 years at the time of application and that's a little on the low side when you're not coming from an "accelerated" career path (e.g. I Banking, PE, Consulting, etc.). So to your concern about leadership professionally and extracurricularly, I would say there IS something you can (and should) do about that.

Honestly, I think it may be in your best interest to hold off on applications for maybe a year or two. At work, actively seek out leadership experiences and see if you can line up a promotion. If that means switching companies, that can be an option. Outside of work, find something you're passionate about and use that as an opportunity to develop the skills you may or may not have the opportunity to develop at work.

Your recommendations can only help you so much - they will only be as good as what you can give them.

I don't mean the above negatively by any means - I think your goals and target programs (e.g. Duke) make sense. They're great programs and they'll really help you make that switch. However, a program like Duke is a very tight knit community and really looks at leadership (both professionally and other) to differentiate candidates.

I think you've got a little bit of time - so take that time to strengthen the rest of your profile and, if you have the time, retake the GMAT! A higher score is always a great thing and you have the time to focus on your development areas.

Cheers,

Bhavik
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jeffdill
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Joined: 24 Apr 2013
Last visit: 01 Sep 2014
Posts: 66
Own Kudos:
12
Given Kudos: 27
Location: United States
Concentration: Strategy, Operations
Schools: Wharton '16 (D) Duke '16 (WL) Kellogg '16 (D) CBS '16 (D) HBS '16 (D) Kenan-Flagler '16 (A) Ross '16 (M$)
GMAT 1: 660 Q44 V38
GMAT 2: 700 Q44 V41
GPA: 3.55
WE:Engineering (Manufacturing)
Schools: Wharton '16 (D) Duke '16 (WL) Kellogg '16 (D) CBS '16 (D) HBS '16 (D) Kenan-Flagler '16 (A) Ross '16 (M$)
GMAT 2: 700 Q44 V41
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Retake Question Updated on: 15 Jul 2013, 08:25
Originally posted by jeffdill on 15 Jul 2013, 07:44.
Last edited by jeffdill on 15 Jul 2013, 08:25, edited 2 times in total.
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CriticalSquareMBA
Hey Jeff,

My main question for you is why are you looking to apply this year? You'll have 3 years at the time of application and that's a little on the low side when you're not coming from an "accelerated" career path (e.g. I Banking, PE, Consulting, etc.). So to your concern about leadership professionally and extracurricularly, I would say there IS something you can (and should) do about that.

Honestly, I think it may be in your best interest to hold off on applications for maybe a year or two. At work, actively seek out leadership experiences and see if you can line up a promotion. If that means switching companies, that can be an option. Outside of work, find something you're passionate about and use that as an opportunity to develop the skills you may or may not have the opportunity to develop at work.
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Hello Bhavik, thank you for your reply.

I understand your concern with my relatively little work experience. The reason why I want to apply this year is that I feel that in another year it will be the right time for me to move on to a different position. I have received a lot of great experiences during my time in this job, many of which will make great application topics, but there is no room for promotion within my department. I figure that since I'd have to move to go to a different position, it made sense to go for an MBA now instead of get a year into a new position and jump ship. I won't lie, I have personal reasons too - my girlfriend is starting law school this fall, so me applying for 2014 start means we would graduate at the same time. That's certainly negotiable, but logistically it makes the most sense!
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Retake Question 15 Jul 2013, 08:23
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Then that makes sense to me too. Each of these reasons makes perfect sense to me! If that's the case, then your entire application will need to work together to communicate key themes and you'll have to diversify the school portfolio to include some safeties. The lack of explicit leadership experiences is of concern but you do have involvement and if your work experiences are compelling, that's half the battle. Essentially, we'd want to consider the full gamut of top 20 programs. If your goal is MC, then there are a lot of things to consider that go beyond mere job placement.

I'd love to help you talk through this and we can either do that right here or we can set up time to chat. It might be easier to jump on the phone so, if you'd like, you can sign up for a consultation here. I conduct them all myself so it'd be a great way to continue this conversation!

I'll leave the medium up to you but I look forward to discussing it with you!

Bhavik
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Retake Question 16 Jul 2013, 00:22
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jeffdill
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Hey Jeff,

My main question for you is why are you looking to apply this year? You'll have 3 years at the time of application and that's a little on the low side when you're not coming from an "accelerated" career path (e.g. I Banking, PE, Consulting, etc.). So to your concern about leadership professionally and extracurricularly, I would say there IS something you can (and should) do about that.

Honestly, I think it may be in your best interest to hold off on applications for maybe a year or two. At work, actively seek out leadership experiences and see if you can line up a promotion. If that means switching companies, that can be an option. Outside of work, find something you're passionate about and use that as an opportunity to develop the skills you may or may not have the opportunity to develop at work.

Hello Bhavik, thank you for your reply.

I understand your concern with my relatively little work experience. The reason why I want to apply this year is that I feel that in another year it will be the right time for me to move on to a different position. I have received a lot of great experiences during my time in this job, many of which will make great application topics, but there is no room for promotion within my department. I figure that since I'd have to move to go to a different position, it made sense to go for an MBA now instead of get a year into a new position and jump ship. I won't lie, I have personal reasons too - my girlfriend is starting law school this fall, so me applying for 2014 start means we would graduate at the same time. That's certainly negotiable, but logistically it makes the most sense!
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Personal reasons are totally valid my friend... Sometimes they make even more sense than professional ones. (Am I allowed to say this? ). So you have good reasons, and it seems from your initial post you have four years of experience... so actually no need for you to wait. (And how cool would it be if you both got into the same school/school int he same city?)

Good luck!