One of the things I wish I had known going into recruiting was just how incredibly tough it can get - not just mentally, but physically and emotionally. I often heard "oh yea it sucks, but you make it through it" from a lot of folks but no one every really sat me down and laid it out for me. So I'm a gonna lay it out for you. So fasten those lapstraps ladies and jellyspoons, its time to take a trip on the the magic carpet ride of hell, also known as MBA recruiting. I know what you are saying, but rhyme, haven't you picked your worst to show us? Yes, sort-of, but its not dramatically different from any other week during the middle of recruiting season. That said, I do subscribe to the "show me the worst of it and the rest will seem manageable by comparison" mantra. Accept the below as a plausible week, and you'll be prepared for what to expect. So with that in mind, I first present you a typical week during the pre-interview season. This is when you go to coffee chats, career services presentations, off-campus recruiting events, dinners, cocktail invitations, some invite only events, meet and greets, etc. So what might a week there look like? https://img65.imageshack.us/img65/7084/corporateeventsiy5.jpg To see the full size image, click here: https://img65.imageshack.us/img65/9329/c ... ntsio1.jpg Red = some kind of event like those mentioned above Gray = classes or class related stuff, eg meetings, or study sessions or deadlines Green = unrelated social crap like going out for drinks (no, I don't normally put these on a calendar, but when dinners and such started creeping up with companies, I did, just to make sure I didn't double commit) Ok, so thats not too bad... but as you can see, its still pretty crazy. Keep in mind that you really want to go prepared to these events - you cant well show up at a Bain event and ask them about their office in X, if they don't have an office in X. Nor can you walk into some firm and be like "So what are you recruiting for this year?" or "What do you do?" or "Where are your headquarters".... Keep that in mind when you look at that diagram. There's a lot of prep work inbetween those gaps that you have to do. For an idea of what good prep for a firm is -- you should know: * what they do * office locations * what their top 3 growth strategies are * SWOT analysis * recent media events / press releases * names of school alumni at the firm * have read the 10-k and recent analyst reports * ideally, you should know the stock price the day of the event (seriously). * market outlook for the industry * the name of the CEO and other key executives. (You dont want to ask "So, who is Frank?") * major competitors * firm vision / mission * have read the job posting in detail * annual revenue, key divisions, number of employees, biggest office * why you want to work there (this should probably be first) * what specifically youve done that is relevant (dont be surprised when they ask you what you did before school.) This is pretty deep, but if you are serious about a firm, this is the kind of knowledge it takes. Maybe not all of it at this stage, but certainly by the interview. That said, recruiting itself is a bit tougher. Here's a week from February that I wasn't a huge fan of: https://img87.imageshack.us/img87/5937/interviewingxk0.jpg Full size here: https://img258.imageshack.us/img258/9963 ... ingot5.jpg A few things to highlight: * Notice the number of interviews I had this week - 11. (some are actually two 30 minute interviews, so in reality, I had even more than those listed here). * Notice that I also had two evening events. * Those of you who are married, take note that this falls over valentine's day. Moral: set expectations with your significant other early. * You may think this actually looks less busy than the pre-interview timeframe I showed above. Thats deceiving. This is actually a lot worse. Preparing for these takes a lot more effort than for events. Its not uncommon for companies, especially corporate firms, to grill you on what you know about them. I've had firms straight out ask me if I read their 10-k, or "tell me everything you know about us", or even "given what you know about us, what do you see as our biggest threat in the market in the next 3 to 5 years and how would you mitigate that risk?" or "Describe to me what our different revenue streams are, and which you think are undergoing the most pressure now. Why?"Good luck swinging a bat at those questions if you haven't done your research. What you dont see here is the effort that goes into that prep. You'll also notice a lack of gray - studying isn't even on here because its just what I did at night. The day was always focused on interviews. To give you an idea, actually think through a couple of those days: 9.30am interview followed by a 10.30 to 12 - thats two firms and probably 4 total interviews. That means I probably got to campus by 8, ate something, refreshed my memory on those two firms and went to the interview. Then at 12, I get a 30 minute break, then I do another two firms. At 2.30, I leave campus, drive downtown to make a 4pm offsite interview. I finish that around 5pm or 5.30, probably run some errand at 6pm, so I can make it to a pre-interview event (likely a dinner) by 7.30. Home around 9 or 10pm. Do any homework for Wednesday. Go to bed maybe round 12 or 1. Get up, get on campus at 8, go to class from 8.30 to 11.30. Go to lunch. Review notes for companies 7 and 8, try to do homework for Thursday. Go to those interviews, probably go home and change before next event at 7.30. Thursday, repeat with 2 more interviews.... And inbetween all this, you are waiting on calls from the firms you interviewed with to find out how things went! Stress! * I had a midterm that week, ugh! * There is absolutely noting social noted here. Don't be surprised if you become a hermit for a few weeks in the middle there. Now, a few other tidbits: 1. But rhyme, what kind of 1@(# up interviews with so many firms? Yes, I had far too many interviews that week and I should have just canceled some. In the end I interviewed with something like 20 firms, but really should only have bothered with roughly 10 of them. Excluding 2nd round interviews, I probably averaged 5 interviews a week for about 4 weeks. That might sound easy, but keep in mind how much research is needed. 2. Banking recruiting is shorter and more condensed, but just as intense. So, thats the beginning of what to expect. Now to keep you guys from jumping off a cliff.... by comparison, my schedule now is much nicer: https://img514.imageshack.us/img514/9823/nowyo2.jpg Note, I work all day Mondays (I dont work till 8pm, i just grayed the made the whole day red in case I stay late), gray is class related stuff, green is just drinks etc... I'd write more now, but frankly, I'm a bit tired. If you guys have questions, let me know.

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Rhyme's Guide To What To Expect From Recruiting

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fooFighter

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15 Jun 2008, 01:10

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I'm curious as to why you guys think an engineering background is important for VC? As compared to people with mgt consulting xp or finance backgrounds with strong quant skills?

I'm a engineering major whos career changed to finance (w/o mba) so I'm interested :p

rhyme

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15 Jun 2008, 16:00

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fooFighter

Because people generalize too much

The truth is that no particular background is "right" for VC. Certainly, business fundamentals are key in any VC, but there is really no reason whatsoever to think that you have a better chance as an engineer (or really for that matter as a finance guy).

VCs are unique in their specialization - and if you happen to have the "right mix" for THAT particular VC firm, you could be an easy hire. You may just as equally be totally boring to the next the VC firm. For instance, take a look at these guys: https://www.archventure.com/ -- they invest almost exclusively in early stage, highly scientific stuff like new chemical polymers, etc. A background in say, chemical engineering, would be directly applicable to this firm. Spend the last 5 years doing strategic investments in plastics with DOW? Congrats, they'll probably want to talk to you.

That however, would be totally useless to a firm like say, Duchoissois - where frankly, knowledge of horses might be more valuable. See: https://www.duch.com. Say instead, your background happens to be in marketing. In that case, a firm like Lake Capital might make sense for you. In other cases, you might just have exactly the right mix for one of their portfolio firms (this is a good way to get in too... join a portfolio firm, do good work, get your name known in the VC circles and then go from there). In other instances, maybe its something else. In one case, I know a guy who thinks he got a job because he happens to know a few rich people and thinks the firm hired him hoping he could bring in a few million in funding. Make no mistake about it though, just because you have the "right" mix, doesn't make you a shoe in.

VC and PE, frankly, is probably 90% networking, 5% what you know and 5% luck. You just gotta beat the ground and get into the club. A good example of this - I met a VC guy in the bahamas a while back, got his card and I called him and he pretty much told me, in no uncertain terms, that I had nothing to offer a VC firm and should just go "work at a hedge fund" since I could make more money anyway. Three months later, I emailed him asking if he knew anything about the firm I had an offer from. He wrote back that he didnt but... maybe there was something at his firm after all, and although they didnt usually hire interns, maybe they could make an exception. How does someone go from telling you that you don't stand a chance to suddenly almost pulling an offer out of a hat over email? The reason is simple: it's all about networking and breaking into the club.

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15 Jun 2008, 19:08

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I agree with Rhyme, you need a background that's relevant to a particular firm or niche. I have a friend who landed a job at a healthcare focused VC. She's not an MD, but she's enrolled in a dual MBA/something in healthcare (can't recall the name) program. She got involved with the healthcare club, did the healthcare immersion, used to work at a pharma company and landed the job.

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15 Jun 2008, 20:51

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rhyme

fooFighter

Because people generalize too much

I ran across this a couple of months ago and found it interesting. It pretty much reiterates what you said:

https://mba.tuck.dartmouth.edu/pecenter/ ... ynard.html

I ended up with four job offers—though only one of them was in private equity, working for John Hancock in their venture capital group. Although it didn't seem like I was going to be on the front lines of the venture capital marketplace at the time, I took the job based on the advice I got from Steve Woodsun (a managing partner at Summit Partners in Boston). He said something like, "Take the job. The hardest part of this business is getting in; once you are in the industry, you can learn a lot and cultivate more options."

bherronp

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15 Jun 2008, 21:30

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what would you bring to the table ? How can you add value to the job with no exposure to VC industry?

Admittedly probably not that much right off the bat. I'd definately be a developmental project, although I think that worked out very well for the managers who took a chance on me and gave me the chance to prove that I could be a great network engineer.

If I were to be in VC, I would want to work in tech. I love technology. VC is not about the big money to me, as it seems to be for alot people interested in VC. I would work for an average base salary just to get in the door and get a chance to prove myself. Also, I have worked in the mobility area my entire career, so I think I could bring an understanding of that industry. Also, I am very good at understanding technology systems - how systems work together to make a product work. That is part of what has made me a good engineer.

Like I said, that isn't alot to go off of. Really I'd have to get lucky and find someone who would be willing to listen to and (hopefully) believe my reasoning of why I could be a useful member of a VC team.

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17 Jun 2008, 13:56

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bherronp

All the best,
The reason why i asked this Q was to know your strategy to get into VC and how you are gonna differentiate yourself

if Tech is your passion, how about dabbling with a startup? I guess one would get lot of biz experience in a startup than the Fortune 500 job

lepium

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18 Jun 2008, 20:24

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Ozmba

The thing is, though, that entrepreneurs transition into VC only after exiting at least 1 successful (successful in VC terms means: VC funded, 5x+ exit, etc.) start up. Otherwise they are more likely to be pitching ideas to VCs than working for them.

Entrepreneurial experience is more relevant to general management than to VCs, unless the entrepreneur becomes an expert in a particular niche.

L.

fooFighter

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13 Jul 2008, 05:16

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Great points Rhyme and Lepium :-D

rhyme

fooFighter

Because people generalize too much

gradschoolapplicant

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15 Jul 2008, 11:44

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great point fooFighter!

dharmabum

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15 Nov 2008, 12:40

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crazy times

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19 Nov 2008, 15:03

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I am going to interview for my summer internship with a PE firm which was established in 1994. I also have a summer internship offer from a top notch general mgmt firm for their strategy division. I however am more interested in finance and related stuff.

Now these PE firms are damn secretive with hardly any info in their website. How does one find out more about these firms and how does one evaluate these firms from a career perspective? Any tips? I could find out the team member profiles and the portfolio firms.

The PE firm I am talking off has raised 1.5 B$ in last 14 years and the latest fund is of 500 million $ which it raised 2 years ago to invest in Asian economies.

PS: I am based out of India

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30 Dec 2008, 05:24

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I'd be VERY interested to hear what recruiting would be like for class of 2010. Offers would be tough (for obvious reasons) and I'd be interested to note who would be the prime recruiters now that so many primary finance recruiters are either out of business or doing it tough.

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30 Dec 2008, 09:04

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rpradeephere

Finding out about a particular PE firm can be tough. Speaking to someone working in the following areas might help: competing PE house; banks, advisors, lawyers to these firms; recruitment agencies who recruit for similar firms, etc.

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21 Apr 2009, 16:13

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I would like to revive this thread with one question.

Can anyone give me a rough breakdown of the recruiting season? It seems like IB recruiting opens the season, and PE/VC closes it out. Does anyone know how the rest of the season looks like?

I guess I'm looking for a rough breakdown that looks something like this,

IB - November ~ Jan
Consulting - ???
Marketing - ???
Operations/SCM - ???
General Management - ???
Start-ups/Entrepreneurship - ???
PE/VC - April ~ Jun

Or is such breakdowns even possible/right?

riverripper

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21 Apr 2009, 16:44

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IB - events October - December...Apply/Interview December - January...R2 invited within 2 days...decision around 1-2 weeks...though this year much longer at times
Consulting - events October - December...Apply/Interview December - January...R2 invited within 2 days...decision around 1 day to 2 weeks
Marketing - events October - December...Apply/Interview December - February...R2 invited long time...decision around 1 week to 4+ weeks
Operations/SCM - events October - December...Apply/Interview December - February...R2 invited long time...decision around 1 week to 4+ weeks
General Management - events October - December...Apply/Interview December - February...R2 invited long time...decision around 1 week to 4+ weeks
Start-ups/Entrepreneurship - All Year...but no events
PE/VC - network all year, some on campus follow IB timeline but most are March - May/June depending on school.

Note those are for on campus. Off campus stuff is all up to you. I had an offer at Christmas. Also Minority recruiting can be very early in the year. I had friends with internships in October from minority mba career fairs. If you are black/hispanic go to these since if you are at a top school you will almost certainly get an offer from a top company.

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21 Apr 2009, 23:05

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Startups - Generally recruit late March to May time frame. All the startups are now starting to recruit at Haas and there are about 3-5 startup jobs a week the past 2-3 weeks. Not much on campus infosessions. Might attend a career fair or two.

Tech - Infosessions in the fall. Big companies recruit in January/February. Big companies in this economic environment recruit just in time in late March/April (Sony finally posted its entire list of internships just last week).

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16 Apr 2010, 23:37

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Dear Lepium,

Thanks for sharing your very detailed experiences. This is very useful for someone like me who will enroll this fall. I will certainly throw the net wide and put ego aside.

lepium

I had a somehow different experience due to my own decisions. Pretty stressful, if you ask me, but not necessarily because of a hectic schedule. This was my path (exaggerated a bit here and there for dramatism):

September - October: participate in some career planning workshop and tests. Come out with a strong fit with Entrepreneurship and (to a lesser extent) General Management (GM). Attend some industry specific presentations and strike down most industries from my list.
November: Consulting? IB? Nah, I won't attend those dinners. I should probably do a startup for the summer.
January: (the deadline to apply for interview week interviews): Decide to eliminate the following options: finance whatsoever jobs, consulting in general, healthcare focused companies, tech companies, media companies, jobs in my home region (what would that add to my resume?), positions that are a little too entry level for my pre-MBA experience, companies that do not require at least 2-3 years pre-MBA experience (why would I want to work at a position that could be filled by a 23 year old?), companies that do not sound prestigious enough, etc. I'm basically either "too good" (or too lazy towards the deadline which came in the middle of our winter break) for most positions, so end up applying to around 8-10 jobs: about 50% GM and 50% non-profits.

February: during interview week I was interviewed by about 5 firms, about 1 a day, pretty relaxed schedule (get up early, research, interview, research next day's, relax). That included interviewing with a couple of firms that "spammed" me into interviewing with them despite not having applied. Was interviewed by "dream firm" but did not get an offer. Get a few interviews outside of interview week later in the month.

March: most my friends have more than 1 offer in hand and I'm thinking about "how to rule the world" by getting involved in a startup. Fail to apply to any other jobs while considering startup options.

early April: talk to some people I know (from before B-school) about a startup with which they are involved that can interest me. Look into getting the school's funding for people working at startups or starting their own thing. Figure out that I need to write a business plan to do so, and that spending the summer writing a business plan is not what most people are doing at startups.

late April: talk to coaches, mentors the entrepreneurs at the startup and others and suddenly get cold feet about startups in general and the one I'm about to join in particular. Talk to the startup guys about doing a field study (i.e. research for class credit while school's going on) instead. Start shotgunning e-mails everywhere. Surprisingly, the job bank is still running deep despite it being late in the game.

mid May: school's about to end and I haven't been even invited to interview by anyone. Consider going the startup way (using personal funds for living expenses since the deadline for school's funding has passed and I did not submit anything). I start replying to e-mails from classmates and clubs sending along positions that need to be filled ASAP. Post resume in monster.com...

late May: get invited to two interviews in consecutive days (finally!). Both are strategy positions, both are interesting per se (i.e. they would have been interesting back in February).
One phone interview, one in person (local company).

early June (this week): get offers from both companies. Choose one, decline the other. YAY! I'm all set for the summer.

My learnings from the whole process:

- jobs can be quite hard to get if you have too many limitations in mind. However, I'm yet to meet anyone who has been unable to get an MBA-worthy summer job if they were willing to compromise to some extent.

Talking to some 2nd years, the few people that haven't found full time jobs are, for eg., the few students who are looking to get into a top-20 VC firm full time without much relevant experience and knowing that all those firms combined have only 10 post-MBA open positions. Or the few students who want a specific location, a specific industry and a specific function and aren't willing to compromise on any front. Or the really bad interviewers (those who get a lot of interviews but no offers). At the end of the day, 70% of MBAs change jobs within 2 years of graduation, so why not compromise a bit here and there in exchange for peace of mind? Note that compromising does not mean trading down from your pre-MBA job, it just means accepting something else than your ideal job. Not everyone needs to compromise, but some will have to.

- Brand can help. One of the offers I got was from a company that is relatively unknown to the general public (despite its being a leader in its particular niche) and almost completely unknown to the MBA crowd (aside from a job posting in the job bank), yet they were looking to fill a particular summer position from a couple of ultra elite / elite schools in the region but would not consider candidates from other schools in the area (a NE and a couple of NEF)

- Classmates can help. There's lots of e-mails flowing around with positions that someone gets from their network that get offered around. If you let people know you are still looking for jobs late in the game (this requires putting your ego aside), they can consider you for specific projects they are taking part in (I know of a friend who got an offer this way within 10 days from when his original option blew up).

- Career services never gives up. Quite late in the game (after I filled some poll showing that I was still looking for a job), I started getting personalized e-mails with recent postings and additional access to coaches and so on.

- Professors can help. Several professors are involved with various companies (consulting gigs, board, angel investor, etc.) and if you have a specific interest in a particular company they know, they can help you get an interview.

- Being an international and finding work in the US adds some complexity to the process but is far from being a major hurdle (at least for the summer). If you are an international, you probably need some extra time to get your paperwork in order before your internship and you won't be considered for all positions, but you will be far from limited. Full time may be a different story (don't know yet, but I'll let you know next year!).

Hope it helps.

L.

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19 Mar 2011, 15:03

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riverripper

Also Minority recruiting can be very early in the year. I had friends with internships in October from minority mba career fairs. If you are black/hispanic go to these since if you are at a top school you will almost certainly get an offer from a top company.

Are Asians no longer considered minorities and are not allowed to attend?

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22 Mar 2011, 05:03

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Hey guys, just got into bschool for the class of 2013, about to enroll in the Fall.

All this talk about VC has gotten me very interested. I have an engineering background and I love Tech, is there any good source of information on this, or any good books I can read?

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Status:MLT Fellowship - MBA Prep

Affiliations: Beta Gamma Sigma - Business Honors Society, FINRA Securities Licenses, CA Insurance Licenses

Location: United States (CA)

Concentration: Finance, Strategy

Schools: HBS '15 (D) Tuck '15 (A) Wharton '15 (M$) Johnson '15 (A$) Darden '15 (A$) Kellogg '15 (I) Booth '15 (I) Stanford '15 (D) CBS '15 (A$) Haas '15 (A)

GMAT 1: 700 Q48 V38 Verified score

GMAT 2: 750 Q50 V42 Verified score

GPA: 3.47

WE:Sales (Retail Banking)

Schools: HBS '15 (D) Tuck '15 (A) Wharton '15 (M$) Johnson '15 (A$) Darden '15 (A$) Kellogg '15 (I) Booth '15 (I) Stanford '15 (D) CBS '15 (A$) Haas '15 (A)

GMAT 2: 750 Q50 V42 Verified score

Posts: 106

Kudos: 42

16 Sep 2011, 14:52

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Great post and something that I will have to look at for the future!

@Rhyme, do you have an MBA Guide that covers this sort of things? I know the PDF Guide of yours that i saw is for the business school application more-so...