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Nevernevergiveup
This is from the SC book Nirvana

Quote:
The Independence-war of America, which was fought between 1775-83, resulted in "American Enlightement".

It is mentioned in the book that which is modifying America incorrectly and that needs to be used in place of it.

So the correct sentence is given below where that refers to War.

Quote:
The Independence-war of America that was fought between 1775-83 resulted in "American Enlightement".

But I feel otherwise i.e., which refers to war since America is part of prepositional phrase and that refers to America.

Can someone explain?

There are certain exceptions to modifier touch rule. An important prepositional phrase that cannot be placed suitably at any other place in the sentence may come in between a modifier and the noun it refers to. Therefore I do not see any problem with the first option:

The Independence-war of America, which was fought between 1775-83, resulted in "American Enlightement".

The most suitable place for the prepositional phrase of America is between the modifier which was fought... and Independence-war.

However I do see a problem with the other option:
The Independence-war of America that was fought between 1775-83 resulted in "American Enlightement".

An essential modifier (not separated buy comma) is used when it is required to define the noun it refers to and a non essential modifier ( separated by comma) is used to say something more about the noun it refers to.

There had been only one Independence-war of America. We do not need anything more to say to define this war - mentioning Independence-war of America is enough to define which war we are talking about. Therefore anything else we say about the war is non-essential and hence should be separated by comma.

The second example (that) implies that there had been many Independence-wars of America out of which we are talking about the one which was fought between 1775-83. This could be grammatically correct, but this meaning is not the intended one - The Independence-war starts with a capital letter, already implying that the war is a specific one.
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I want to echo Fabiocafarelli's comment. Whoever wrote that sentence about the Revolutionary War clearly does not have a strong command of the English language. I recommend that you set that book aside and look to other sources for guidance! It is possible to learn incorrect patterns or simply get confused by inadequate guidance. Studying directly from the Official Guide, even if you don't also purchase a strategy guide, will be much better for your progress.
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Which and That are very BASICs of GMAT grammer. Many of the sources' exuberance to create more Qs results in creating wrong Qs, leaving the students with wrong learning and concepts.
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I thank each and everyone above for your response.
Thank you very much indeed. :)
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I will suggest you keep this book aside before your score plummets !
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Nevernevergiveup

Quote:
The Independence-war of America, which was fought between 1775-83, resulted in "American Enlightement".

It is mentioned in the book that which is modifying America incorrectly and that needs to be used in place of it.

So the correct sentence is given below where that refers to War.

Quote:
The Independence-war of America that was fought between 1775-83 resulted in "American Enlightement".

But I feel otherwise
Hi Nevernevergiveup, as SC Nirvana states, GMAT has been pretty consistent in following the dictum that which refers to the nearest grammatically eligible word (in this case America). So, the original sentence (that uses which) would never be the correct answer on GMAT.

In fact, there are numerous examples in OG, where the usage of which has been rendered suspect/ambiguous for this reason. Few examples of such incorrect sentences from OG-13:

48: It is called a sea, but the landlocked Caspian is actually the largest lake on Earth, which covers more than four times the surface area of its closest rival in size, North America's Lake Superior.

73: Unlike the original National Museum of Science and Technology in Italy, where the models are encased in glass or operated only by staff members, the Virtual Leonardo Project, an online version of the museum, encourages visitors to "touch"each exhibit, which thereby activates the animated functions of the piece.

Nevernevergiveup
which refers to war since America is part of prepositional phrase and that refers to America.
Let's start with an official example, in which the usage of which is correct. This is the correct answer from OG Verbal Guide:

The commission proposed that funding for development of the park, which could be open to the public early next year, be obtained through a local bond issue.

As you would notice, which correctly modifies park (despite the fact that park is a part of prepositional phrase of the park).

On a more fundamental level, the concept of clauses plays a very important role in Sentence Correction. Hence, we've covered clauses in significant detail in the basic Grammar portion.

Also, the role of prepositional phrases is largely limited to determining the subject-verb agreement issue (and not what which can modify).

Let's look at the sentence again, with slight modification:

The wars of America, which was fought between 1775-83, have been covered in detail in American History books.

There are two clauses in this sentence:

i) Independent clause: The wars of America have been covered in detail in American History books.
ii) Dependent clause: which was fought between 1775-83

In clause i), why do we have the verb have (and not has)? Well, an easy way to determine this, is that the subject is wars; how do we know that America is not the subject? Well, the fact that America is a part of prepositional phrase (of America), is the reason why America cannot be the subject of clause). This is because words in prepositional phrases cannot be the subjects in their respective clause.

However, which is a part of a different clause all-together (clause ii). Hence, what which modifies, is not influenced by whether America (which is in a different clause) is a part of prepositional phrase.

p.s. If you read section 3.6 ("One Of" the mysteries), this implication of clauses impacting subject-verb agreement usage, has been discussed in detail.
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sayantanc2k
There are certain exceptions to modifier touch rule. An important prepositional phrase that cannot be placed suitably at any other place in the sentence may come in between a modifier and the noun it refers to.
Hi sayantanc2k, can you cite an an example where "which" is "skipping" the nearest grammatically eligible word because an important prepositional phrase that cannot be placed suitably at any other place in the sentence?
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tarunktuteja
Even if the point of the problem was to explain which vs that usage,
Indeed Tarun, this example is provided to precisely illustrate the incorrect usage of "which".

As I have explained in my mail above, hopefully it is clear why this usage of which would not be correct on GMAT.
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DmitryFarber
It is possible to learn incorrect patterns or simply get confused by inadequate guidance.
Hi Dmitry, agree with your comments on incorrect patterns; however, this example in the book is to illustrate the incorrect usage of "which" and is not provided as an example to be solved (or as part of the exercise).

The authors do take this liberty of simplification, to drive home the main point (which in this case, was the incorrect usage of "which").

For example, in Manhattan guide, following is given as a correct sentence (as part of Pronouns exercise actually)

We finally chose the coffee table towards the back of the store, because we thought that this table would complement our living room furniture.

Now, should we consider this as "incorrect pattern" as well, because GMAT sentence correction questions are always in third person (and not in first person, as used in this sentence)? I don't think so. This sentence is a simplistic presentation, to illustrate the usage of pronouns and that's all that matters.

Incidentally, the incorrect sentence form of this sentence, as mentioned in the book is:

We finally chose the coffee table towards the back of the store, which we thought would complement our living room furniture.

The explanation says: The sentence is incorrect because the pronoun which seems to refer to store.
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chetan2u
Which and That are very BASICs of GMAT grammer.
Indeed Chetan, and I can assure you that we've been quite judicious in the contents of the book.

Quote:
Many of the sources' exuberance to create more Qs results in creating wrong Qs
Valid point. However, we've restrained our exuberance :). As I have mentioned in my post above, the example quoted by the original poster does not appear as a question or in any exercise in the book. The sole intent of the sentence, as it appears in the book, is to illustrate the modifier related issues vis-a-vis the usage of which.

p.s. Many readers of our book in fact suggest that one feature they would like the book to have, is an access to Sentence Correction question bank, the way many/most other SC guides provide. Our response always has been that test takers should limit their access to official questions only.
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chetan2u
Which and That are very BASICs of GMAT grammer.
Indeed Chetan, and I can assure you that we've been quite judicious in the contents of the book.

Quote:
Many of the sources' exuberance to create more Qs results in creating wrong Qs
Valid point. However, we've restrained our exuberance :). As I have mentioned in my post above, the example quoted by the original poster does not appear as a question or in any exercise in the book. The sole intent of the sentence, as it appears in the book, is to illustrate the modifier related issues vis-a-vis the usage of which.

p.s. Many readers of our book in fact suggest that one feature they would like the book to have, is an access to Sentence Correction question bank, the way many/most other SC guides provide. Our response always has been that test takers should limit their access to official questions only.

Hi Ashish,

1. I am sure when you say that The context in which the Q has been reproduced is flawed, I surely believe you. The courage to stand up and convey the actuals when most of us, including me, had given verdict without knowing the other side gives me a reason to have respect for you. I have seen many in the market that try to defend 'indefensible' and when again cornered prefer to run away, by avoiding the Qs even if asked by NAME.
2. I have not gone through your BOOK and I am sure many others who have commented on the thread may not have and it could have been immature on all of our part to give our judgements on the entire book on one episode. There are many who are surviving and have not faced this onslaught even after their Qs have been put to scrutiny on various occassions here.
3. Every source errors once in a while. The most respectable is to admit gracefully and work upon the error.
All the best in your endeavours.
Chetan
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I want to take back my earlier comments given the fact that EducationAisle has really come up with great references from OG and even better explanations.

Thanks and Kudos to EducationAisle.
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chetan2u
Hi Ashish,

1. I am sure when you say that The context in which the Q has been reproduced is flawed, I surely believe you. The courage to stand up and convey the actuals when most of us, including me, had given verdict without knowing the other side gives me a reason to have respect for you. I have seen many in the market that try to defend 'indefensible' and when again cornered prefer to run away, by avoiding the Qs even if asked by NAME.
2. I have not gone through your BOOK and I am sure many others who have commented on the thread may not have and it could have been immature on all of our part to give our judgements on the entire book on one episode. There are many who are surviving and have not faced this onslaught even after their Qs have been put to scrutiny on various occassions here.
3. Every source errors once in a while. The most respectable is to admit gracefully and work upon the error.
All the best in your endeavours.
Thanks Chetan. Indeed, I was slightly taken aback at how most people, rather than addressing the question by the original poster, turned their attention (guns would be more appropriate word :) ) to the other aspects of why it was not a great sentence.

By the way, many people have pointed out the difference between essential and non-essential aspects of that Vs which. While the points made out are absolutely correct (in fact, our book also does mention this difference), no GMAT question, to my knowledge, has ever tested this difference between that and which.

I would welcome if someone can point out any official question that proves otherwise.
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chetan2u
Hi Ashish,

1. I am sure when you say that The context in which the Q has been reproduced is flawed, I surely believe you. The courage to stand up and convey the actuals when most of us, including me, had given verdict without knowing the other side gives me a reason to have respect for you. I have seen many in the market that try to defend 'indefensible' and when again cornered prefer to run away, by avoiding the Qs even if asked by NAME.
2. I have not gone through your BOOK and I am sure many others who have commented on the thread may not have and it could have been immature on all of our part to give our judgements on the entire book on one episode. There are many who are surviving and have not faced this onslaught even after their Qs have been put to scrutiny on various occassions here.
3. Every source errors once in a while. The most respectable is to admit gracefully and work upon the error.
All the best in your endeavours.
Thanks Chetan. Indeed, I was slightly taken aback at how most people, rather than addressing the question by the original poster, turned their attention (guns would be more appropriate word :) ) to the other aspects of why it was not a great sentence.

By the way, many people have pointed out the difference between essential and non-essential aspects of that Vs which. While the points made out are absolutely correct (in fact, our book also does mention this difference), no GMAT question, to my knowledge, has ever tested this difference between that and which.

I would welcome if someone can point out any official question that proves otherwise.


The only question that comes to my mind is the correct option E for the following OG question, though the concept of which was not specifically tested ( as i understand).

Emily Dickinson’s letters to Susan Huntington Dickinson were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumbering her letters to anyone else.

(A) Dickinson were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumbering

(B) Dickinson were written over a period that begins a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ended shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumber

(C) Dickinson, written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and that ends shortly before Emily’s death in 1886 and outnumbering

(D) Dickinson, which were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother, ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, and outnumbering

(E) Dickinson, which were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumber


Correct answer-

Emily Dickinson’s letters to Susan Huntington Dickinson Dickinson, which were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumber her letters to anyone else.


I am not sure if the above is wholly relevant to the discussion at hand.
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samichange

The only question that comes to my mind is the correct option E for the following OG question, though the concept of which was not specifically tested ( as i understand).

Emily Dickinson’s letters to Susan Huntington Dickinson were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumbering her letters to anyone else.

(A) Dickinson were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumbering

(B) Dickinson were written over a period that begins a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ended shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumber

(C) Dickinson, written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and that ends shortly before Emily’s death in 1886 and outnumbering

(D) Dickinson, which were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother, ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, and outnumbering

(E) Dickinson, which were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumber


Correct answer-

Emily Dickinson’s letters to Susan Huntington Dickinson Dickinson, which were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumber her letters to anyone else.


I am not sure if the above is wholly relevant to the discussion at hand.

hi samichange,

what happens in this case is that Susan Huntington Dickinson is a NAME that can have Pronoun as WHO..
which' requires a thing as an antecedent..

so WHICH unambiguously refers to Emily Dickinson’s letters..
The same may not have been correct if there were a VERB in between or another THING, which can be referred by WHICH.
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I would also like to point out OG 13 SC #12:

Carnivorous mammals can endure what would otherwise be lethal levels of body heat because they have a heat-exchange network which kept the brain from getting too hot.
(A) which kept
(B) that keeps
(C) which has kept
(D) that has been keeping
(E) having kept

I think that the following OG explanation validates the point made by EducationAisle

The useof the past tense {kept) is incorrect because a current situation is discussed; the present tense {keeps) is consistent with the other verbs in the sentence. In (A) and (C), which introduces a restrictive clause. Some writers follow the convention that which can only be used for nonrestrictive clauses, but insistence on this rule is controversial, and both (A) and (C) can berejected on other grounds.


I hope this contributes to the discussion above.

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samichange

The only question that comes to my mind is the correct option E for the following OG question, though the concept of which was not specifically tested ( as i understand).

Emily Dickinson’s letters to Susan Huntington Dickinson were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumbering her letters to anyone else.

(A) Dickinson were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumbering

(B) Dickinson were written over a period that begins a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ended shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumber

(C) Dickinson, written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and that ends shortly before Emily’s death in 1886 and outnumbering

(D) Dickinson, which were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother, ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, and outnumbering

(E) Dickinson, which were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumber


Correct answer-

Emily Dickinson’s letters to Susan Huntington Dickinson Dickinson, which were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumber her letters to anyone else.


I am not sure if the above is wholly relevant to the discussion at hand.

hi samichange,

what happens in this case is that Susan Huntington Dickinson is a NAME that can have Pronoun as WHO..
which' requires a thing as an antecedent..

so WHICH unambiguously refers to Emily Dickinson’s letters..
The same may not have been correct if there were a VERB in between or another THING, which can be referred by WHICH.


Also the verb that follows which is plural - so which unambiguously refers to plural letters.
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