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# The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia

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The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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03 Apr 2009, 11:35
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The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia indicates that by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in country have been attacked by the birds.

a) by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in country have been attacked by the birds.
b) by the time they reach adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women, who were born in the country, had been attacked by birds.
c) by the time they reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of the women born in the country had been attacked by the birds.
d) 98 percent of the men and 75 percent of the women that were born in the country were attacked by the birds by the time they reach adulthood.
e) 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women who were born in the country, by the time they reached adulthood had been attacked by birds
[Reveal] Spoiler: OA

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Re: GMAT Prep - Magpie - Tough question [#permalink]

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17 Nov 2009, 09:16
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a) by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in country have been attacked by the birds
BORN IN COUNTRY should be BORN IN THE COUNTRY
b) by the time they reach adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women, who were born in the country, had been attacked by birds.
ATTACKED BY BIRDS means birds in general.should be BY THE BIRDS
c) by the time they reach adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of the women born in the country had been attacked by the birds.
CORRECT
d) 98 percent of the men and 75 percent of the women that were born in the country were attacked by the birds by the time they reach adulthood.
AMBIGUOUS "THEY"
e) 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women who were born in the country, by the time they reached adulthood had been attacked by birds
ATTACKED BY BIRDS should be ATTACKED BY THE BIRDS

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Re: GMAT Prep - Magpie - Tough question [#permalink]

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22 Nov 2009, 15:43
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There is a typo in option C because it uses present simple and should use past simple.

The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia indicates that by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country have been attacked by the birds.

a.) by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country have been attacked by the birds.
b.) by the time they reach adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women, who were born in the country, had been attacked by the birds
c.) by the time they reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country had been attacked by the birds
d.) 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women that were born in the country were attacked by the birds by the time they reach adulthood
e.) 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women who were born in the country, by the time they reached adulthood had been attacked by the birds

Some people have said that the pronoun they is not ambiguous only in E, I'd like to read the reasoning because for me if you want to argue that they is ambiguous is ambiguous in all the answer choices.

the sentence is testing verb tense

A) they had reached adulthood .... have been attacked --> incorrect you use the past perfect with the simple past
C) they reached adulthood .... had been attacked ---> correct. Explains the sequence of events.
D) were attacked ... by the time they reach ---> past simple and present simple, this doesn't make any sense.
E) by the time they reached adulthood had been attacked by the birds
the problem with this option is that does not set off commas "by the time they reached adulthood", so you have an awkward construction

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Re: The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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08 May 2012, 06:48
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Hi All,

The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia indicates that by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country have been attacked by the birds.

It is very important to understand the intended meaning of the sentence to ascertain the timeline of the events. The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia suggests that by the time 98% of men and 75% of women reached adulthood, they had already been attacked by the bird.

Notice that the sentence says that men and women had already been attacked by the bird even before they reached adulthood. This means that they got attacked first and then they reached adulthood. Now this can be reported in two ways:
a. “by the time they reach adulthood, 98% of men and 75% of women have been attacked by the birds.” (Reported in Present context)
b. “by the time they reached adulthood, 98% of men and 75% of women had been attacked by the birds.” (Reported in Past context)

Error Analysis:
1. This sentence uses past perfect tense for the event that took place later and present perfect tense for the event that took place earlier. In order to establish the correct sequencing, we must use past perfect for the event that took place earlier, that is men and women being attacked, and simple past tense for the event that took place later, that is they reaching adulthood.

POE:

Choice A: by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country have been attacked by the birds. Incorrect for the verb tense error discussed above.

Choice B: by the time they reach adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women, who were born in the country, had been attacked by the birds. Incorrect. This choice repeats the verb tense error by using simple present tense for the event that took place later when past perfect has been correctly used for the earlier event.

Choice C: by the time they reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country had been attacked by the birds. Correct. The verb tense error has been corrected here.

Choice D: 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women that were born in the country were attacked by the birds by the time they reach adulthood. Incorrect.
a. “that” cannot be used to refer to “men and women”.
b. “reach” is not written in the correct verb tense.

Choice E: 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women who were born in the country, by the time they reached adulthood had been attacked by the birds. Incorrect. We Have modifier ambiguity in this choice. Notice that “by the time they reached adulthood” is placed little awkwardly that makes it ambiguous that which entity it’s modifying. It seems as if it is modifying “who were born in the country”. This modifier should have a comma after adulthood to do away with this ambiguity.

PS – Pronoun “they” in Choices A, B, C and E refers to “men and women” because only these men and women reached adulthood. There is no other antecedent “they” can logically refer to.

1. Use past perfect for the event that took place earlier and simple past for the event that took place later.
2. Use the correct combination of verb tenses depending upon the context of the sentence.
3. There should not be any ambiguity in modifier reference.

Hope this helps.
Thanks.
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GMATPREP ChallengeQ -The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Aus [#permalink]

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15 Sep 2014, 14:27
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PiyushK wrote:
NEW PROJECT!: Back to basic => Give your explanation- Get Kudos Point for best explanation

The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia indicates that by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country have been attacked by the birds

A. by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country have been attacked by the birds
B. by the time they reach adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women, who were born in the country, had been attacked by the birds
C. by the time they reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country had been attacked by the birds
D. 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women that were born in the country were attacked by the birds by the time they reach adulthood
E. 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women who were born in the country, by the time they reached adulthood had been attacked by the birds

A typical GMAT SC.

Really good question. Let me try 1 shot.

The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia indicates that by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country have been attacked by the birds

A. by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country have been attacked by the birds
Wrong. verb tense problem because people had been attacked before they reached adulthood

B. by the time they reach adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women, who were born in the country, had been attacked by the birds
Wrong.
IMO, there is a problem with "who" --> it seems that ONLY 98% of men and 75% of women were born in Australia, 2% of men and 25% of women were born in other countries.
In addition, simple present tense (reach) + past perfect (had been attacked) is not a good structure.

C. by the time they reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country had been attacked by the birds
Correct. Verb-ed "born" modifies men and women correctly, not just 98% of men and 75% of women as in B.

D. 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women that were born in the country were attacked by the birds by the time they reach adulthood
Wrong. "That" never goes with people.

E. 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women who were born in the country, by the time they reached adulthood had been attacked by the birds
Wrong.
Problem with "who" (explained in B)
"had been attacked" should be placed close to 98% of men and 75% of women. But it's not the case in E.
In addition, "they reach adulthood had been attacked by the birds" is awkward in terms of grammars.

Best!
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Re: The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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29 Sep 2014, 11:49
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The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia indicates that by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in country have been attacked by the birds.

"By The time" phrase calls for the use of had in the connecting sentence.
eg
By the time X happened, Y had happened.: Notice past tense in 1st part of sentence and past perfect in 2nd part of sentence.

a) by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in country have been attacked by the birds. - Wrong use of had

b) by the time they reach adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women, who were born in the country, had been attacked by birds. - Who refers to women only, not to men and women.

c) by the time they reach adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of the women born in the country had been attacked by the birds. Correct Usage

d) 98 percent of the men and 75 percent of the women that were born in the country were attacked by the birds by the time they reach adulthood. - Wrong verb tense and that refers to women only.

e) 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women who were born in the country, by the time they reached adulthood had been attacked by birds - Who refers to Women only.
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The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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02 Jun 2016, 08:09
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DensetsuNo wrote:
Thanks sayan,
I always saparate clauses with the comma, good to know that it doesn't always mean that they're two separate clauses!

Btw, do you have any example of such "nested" principal clauses?

Regards,
Densetsu

Sorry for the typo..... should be "such embedding of independent clause....". Following is a simple example:

John, who is known for his whimsical decisions, has become the operation manager.

The dependent clause "who is known for his whimsical decisions" is embedded within the main clause.

Nonetheless it is possible to embed even main clause within another using "-.......-". Following is an example from OG13:

Although heirloom tomatoes, grown from seeds saved during the previous year, appear less appetizing than most of their round and red supermarket cousins - they are often green and striped, or have plenty of bumps and bruises—heirlooms are more flavorful and thus in increasing demand.

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The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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03 Jun 2016, 01:52
sayantanc2k wrote:
DensetsuNo wrote:
Thanks sayan,
I always saparate clauses with the comma, good to know that it doesn't always mean that they're two separate clauses!

Btw, do you have any example of such "nested" principal clauses?

Regards,
Densetsu

Sorry for the typo..... should be "such embedding of independent clause....". Following is a simple example:

John, who is known for his whimsical decisions, has become the operation manager.

The dependent clause "who is known for his whimsical decisions" is embedded within the main clause.

Nonetheless it is possible to embed even main clause within another using "-.......-". Following is an example from OG13:

Although heirloom tomatoes, grown from seeds saved during the previous year, appear less appetizing than most of their round and red supermarket cousins - they are often green and striped, or have plenty of bumps and bruises—heirlooms are more flavorful and thus in increasing demand.

e) The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia indicates that 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women who were born in the country, by the time they reached adulthood had been attacked by birds.

My point is: shouldn't there be a comma after the "by the time they reached adulthood"?
I totally agree with your previous examples because they use the parenthetical construction, but in this specific case the lack of the commas doesn't transform the phrase into two incomplete constructions?

What do you think sayantanc2k?

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The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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05 Jun 2016, 12:42
DensetsuNo wrote:
sayantanc2k wrote:
DensetsuNo wrote:
Thanks sayan,
I always saparate clauses with the comma, good to know that it doesn't always mean that they're two separate clauses!

Btw, do you have any example of such "nested" principal clauses?

Regards,
Densetsu

Sorry for the typo..... should be "such embedding of independent clause....". Following is a simple example:

John, who is known for his whimsical decisions, has become the operation manager.

The dependent clause "who is known for his whimsical decisions" is embedded within the main clause.

Nonetheless it is possible to embed even main clause within another using "-.......-". Following is an example from OG13:

Although heirloom tomatoes, grown from seeds saved during the previous year, appear less appetizing than most of their round and red supermarket cousins - they are often green and striped, or have plenty of bumps and bruises—heirlooms are more flavorful and thus in increasing demand.

e) The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia indicates that 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women who were born in the country, by the time they reached adulthood had been attacked by birds.

My point is: shouldn't there be a comma after the "by the time they reached adulthood"?
I totally agree with your previous examples because they use the parenthetical construction, but in this specific case the lack of the commas doesn't transform the phrase into two incomplete constructions?

What do you think sayantanc2k?

Yes, I do agree with you in that they are incomplete constructions, since the first does not have a verb and the second does not have a subject.

Nonetheless in my opinion a comma after "by the time they reached adulthood" does not really change much: we would still have two incomplete constructions as without a comma.

A comma is generally used after a long introductory prepositional phrase, but not used after a short one. Some grammarians suggest that less than 5 words is categorized as a short phrase and more as a long:

By the time I reached the accident site, the vehicle was towed way.
By afternoon I finished my work.

Per the above rule there should be a comma after "by the time they reached adulthood". However the 2 incomplete constructions remain incomplete and does not depend on the presence of the comma.

Whatsoever, even with the comma after "by the time they reached adulthood", I would consider the whole sentence as one construction (one subject - one verb) with a misplaced prepositional phrase.

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Re: GMATPREP ChallengeQ -The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Aus [#permalink]

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15 Jul 2016, 23:29
The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia indicates that by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country have been attacked by the birds

A. by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country have been attacked by the birds --
B. by the time they reach adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women, who were born in the country, had been attacked by the birds -- who were born brings in an un-neccessary modifier that changes the meaning
C. by the time they reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in the country had been attacked by the birds -- they refers to men and women,had been signifies the attacks began some time before adulthood and were still goin on till they (men and women) became adults.
D. 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women that were born in the country were attacked by the birds by the time they reach adulthood -- 75 percent of women that were born in the country -- the that modifies only women and conveys the meaning that 98 % of men and 75 % of women born in the country were attacked.
E. 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women who were born in the country, by the time they reached adulthood had been attacked by the birds --same as above

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The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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11 Sep 2016, 10:36
sayantanc2k,

With regards to your advice: "Nonetheless in my opinion a comma after "by the time they reached adulthood" does not really change much: we would still have two incomplete constructions as without a comma."

The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia indicates that 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women who were born in the country, by the time they reached adulthood, had been attacked by birds.

Leaving aside the part in red, which I believe that it is problematic as it is not the intended meaning of the original sentence, if the subordinated clause in option E had a comma right after "adulthood", the construction would be complete.

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The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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18 Dec 2016, 22:24
Ilomelin wrote:
daagh wrote:
Can’t we take a simpler route to solve this issue? For Eg.,
We can first kick out D for calling women ‘that’ rather than ‘who’.
Dump B and E for missing the definite article ‘the’ .
A is gone for reversing the sequence of timeline.
C visibly handles these two issues effectively, So the answer.

Take away: 1% wrong is 100 % wrong in the GMAT.

Thank you! I was wondering why nobody had mentioned the "the" of B and E, that was the main reason I got the question right.

Cheers.

I think you both are wrong in pointing out the error for B and E.. The original question in the GMAT prep has the word "the".
Please have a look at the attachment.. There is a typo in the question prompt from the author of the poster.

Attachments

86.JPG [ 108.59 KiB | Viewed 4956 times ]

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Re: The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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08 Apr 2017, 03:41
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VyshakhR1995 wrote:
Nightmare007 wrote:
VyshakhR1995 wrote:
I got C as the answer..but have a doubt... Born ----> first action ....So can we eliminate options with simple past attached "born" when there is Had + verb ...No other action can precede birth right??....option C corrects it..

Reached adulthood_ had been attacked_ I think these two are required. Because born is understood.

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But if one includes "were"with born then grammatically had been action will precede...In C this is corrected....In a number of options were born is used..My Q was ...These options can be eliminated directly right?

Not really - The past participle "born" (or the verb "were born") is not a part of the sequence. The sequence is between "time" (in "by the time") and "had been attacked". Compare with the following:

By 2010 the company had grown by 100%... the sequential relation is between "2010" and "had grown". You may add a modifier (e.g. "established in 2005") to "the company", but that modifier does not play a role in the tense of "had grown".)

Similarly, the core sequence here is:
..by the time they reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of the women (born in the country) had been attacked by the birds...

The modifier within bracket does not play a role in the tense of "had been attacked".

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The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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12 Apr 2017, 00:09
USE OF PAST PERFECT ('HAD'+PAST PARTICIPLE) TENSE

(1) When there are two or more related events in a sentence
(2) To convey the sequence of events correctly, past perfect tense is used for the earlier event

Exceptions:
Use of Past perfect tense becomes optional with 'before' and 'after' .

So in this sentence:
EVENT 1: The men and women (they) were attacked by the magpie
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Re: The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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12 Apr 2017, 19:19
Merged topics. Please, search before posting questions!
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Re: The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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15 Jun 2017, 19:22
the question looks weird, why the tense changes from present to past, => this baffles me for a while because I never expect the tense is focused in gmat in such a weird way.
D is out because in gmat that represents things and who must be used to modify people.
In A and B, tenses are not consistent.
E is out also because it is so wrong.
for statistics, the noun following the number will determine whether the verb is singular or plural.

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Re: The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia [#permalink]

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02 Jul 2017, 04:29
The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia indicates that by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in country have been attacked by the birds.

a) by the time they had reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women born in country have been attacked by the birds. - we need past perfect "had been" here not present perfect "have been"
b) by the time they reach adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women, who were born in the country, had been attacked by birds. - "they reach adulthood" is incorrect as we need past tense here "reached" + what does "who" refer to, only the "women", not clear
c) by the time they reached adulthood, 98 percent of men and 75 percent of the women born in the country had been attacked by the birds - CORRECT.. correct tense past perfect "had been" is used
d) 98 percent of the men and 75 percent of the women that were born in the country were attacked by the birds by the time they reach adulthood - "that" cannot be used for men and women + problem with tense again "reach"
e) 98 percent of men and 75 percent of women who were born in the country, by the time they reached adulthood had been attacked by birds - "who" reference unclear + second part of sentence is a mess "by the time.."
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Re: The first detailed study of magpie attacks in Australia   [#permalink] 02 Jul 2017, 04:29
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