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The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 22 Dec 2015, 02:48
chetan2u wrote:
Nez wrote:
i've always screamed it to my friends that gmat tests grammar in SC not quite the meaning per se.
since we dont know what's going on in the author's mind, we are more interested in the grammar.
hence we eliminate options with excess baggage.
just D was brazen enough to carry "in addition" in addition to "and". dirty!
well, that leaves us with E, even though E sounds a little stupid. was it the shot that TOOK four days or the news?
I can surmise that GMAT has a rule that says "WHICH or THAT must be preceded by the now it modifies. right?
where are the experts?
chetan2u
Bunuel



Hi Nez,

the two points you have asked..
1)even though E sounds a little stupid. was it the shot that TOOK four days or the news?...
its actually the news and E does point to that itself..
but news of these shots took four days by swift messenger to reach New York City and another eleven days...
some example..
the parents of the child were called to the school.. or
the first of the game played between the two countries was won by...
here yes we are talking of game when we say 'played' but here too it is modifying the entire phrase since it is specific to 'first'..

2)I can surmise that GMAT has a rule that says "WHICH or THAT must be preceded by the noun it modifies. right?
yes, you are right but not always...
example from OG..
Emily Dickinson’s letters to Susan Huntington Dickinson, which were written over a period beginning a few years before Susan’s marriage to Emily’s brother and ending shortly before Emily’s death in 1886, outnumber her letters to anyone else.
here you can see that 'which does not refer to the closest noun ' susan ..' but is still correct
which clearly refers to letters although it is away since name cannot have pronoun as 'which'

this particular example from OG will clear both concepts where 'which' can refer to a faraway noun and where not..
33. Because an oversupply of computer chips has sent prices plunging, the manufacturer has announced that it will cut production by closing its factories for two
days a month.

(A) Because an oversupply of computer chips has sent prices plunging,
(B) Because of plunging prices for computer chips, which is due to an oversupply,
(C) Because computer chip prices have been sent plunging, which resulted from an oversupply,
(D) Due to plunging computer chip prices from an oversupply,
(E) Due to an oversupply, with the result that computer chip prices have been sent plunging,

in this question 'which' can replace "plunging prices for computer chips" as in B but the choice is wrong because of the verb 'is', as the prices is 'plural' and requires 'are'..
(B) Because of plunging prices for computer chips, which is due to an oversupply,

however if you take C..
(C) Because computer chip prices have been sent plunging, which resulted from an oversupply,..
here 'which' cannot refer to 'computer chip prices' as it is long lost due to introduction of verbs 'have been' in between


Rich!
Isnt GMAT a spirit?
Are there rule of rules of thumb in GMAT.
yes. five rules of thumb. btw options A to E choose one!
**hugs**

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 05 Apr 2016, 04:35
stevegt wrote:
The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Concord. Massachusetts, were, according to legend, heard around the world, but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days to reach Charleston, South Carolina.

A. shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days
B. shots that was sent by swift messenger took four days in order to reach New York City, and also another eleven days
C. shots that were sent by swift messenger took four days to reach New York City and another eleven days
D. shots took four days by swift messenger in order to reach New York City and another eleven days in addition
E. shots took four days by swift messenger to reach New York City and another eleven days


The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Concord. Massachusetts, were, according to legend, heard around the world, but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days to reach Charleston, South Carolina.

A. shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days
as well as another additional – wrong because of redundancy.

B. shots that was sent by swift messenger took four days in order to reach New York City, and also another eleven days
and also – wrong because of redundancy.

C. shots that were sent by swift messenger took four days to reach New York City and another eleven days
and another – wrong because of redundancy.

D. shots took four days by swift messenger in order to reach New York City and another eleven days in addition
and another eleven days in addition – wrong because of redundancy.

E. shots took four days by swift messenger to reach New York City and another eleven days

We are left with choice E. so 100% this one should be correct because first four choices are completely wrong.

What is so meaningful yet confusing at very first glance is “shots took four days by swift messenger”


At first I felt why do we need “shots” after comma. Read this- “but news of these shots, shots took four days by swift messenger” is awkward. In my opinion it should have been “but news of these shots, took four days by swift messenger” that’s it.


BUT E is right and the meaning is also right. Because “shots took four days by swift messenger to reach New York City..” is “THE news of shots”
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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 13 Apr 2016, 06:42
stevegt wrote:
The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Concord. Massachusetts, were, according to legend, heard around the world, but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days to reach Charleston, South Carolina.

A. shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days
B. shots that was sent by swift messenger took four days in order to reach New York City, and also another eleven days
C. shots that were sent by swift messenger took four days to reach New York City and another eleven days
D. shots took four days by swift messenger in order to reach New York City and another eleven days in addition
E. shots took four days by swift messenger to reach New York City and another eleven days


a) Which use is wrong.
b) in order to - not required. concision.
c) Good choice.
d) in order to.. same as b
e) more concise than c. Answer

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 17 Jun 2016, 20:01
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A - wrong
"were" is not correct to use as "news" needs a singular verb.
B - wrong
The second part ", and also..." is missing a right conjuction and subject. Als I think that modifier "that was sent by swift messenger" is made essential and this is not the case - confusing if it is for news or shots (you can determine based on whether it makes any sense or not but huh!).
C - wrong
"were" is not correct to use as "news" needs a singular verb.
D - wrong
use of "another" and "in addition" - plain wordy and little much
E - Seems the best choice
although a little troubled by placement of "by swift messenger" but guess better than other choices.

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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stevegt wrote:
The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Concord. Massachusetts, were, according to legend, heard around the world, but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days to reach Charleston, South Carolina.

A. shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days
B. shots that was sent by swift messenger took four days in order to reach New York City, and also another eleven days
C. shots that were sent by swift messenger took four days to reach New York City and another eleven days
D. shots took four days by swift messenger in order to reach New York City and another eleven days in addition
E. shots took four days by swift messenger to reach New York City and another eleven days


'NEWS' of the 'SHOTS' was sent by messenger, and not the 'SHOT' itself was sent through messenger.

'that' and 'which' refer to 'Shots' incorrectly. A, B and C are out.

'and another eleven days in addition'- 'another' and 'in addition' are redundant in D.

E is the answer
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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 04 Dec 2016, 02:34
Nezdem wrote:
thangvietnam wrote:
stevegt wrote:
The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Concord. Massachusetts, were, according to legend, heard around the world, but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days to reach Charleston, South Carolina.

A. shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days
B. shots that was sent by swift messenger took four days in order to reach New York City, and also another eleven days
C. shots that were sent by swift messenger took four days to reach New York City and another eleven days
D. shots took four days by swift messenger in order to reach New York City and another eleven days in addition
E. shots took four days by swift messenger to reach New York City and another eleven days



I eliminat e because I do not understand the use of "by swift messenger" . pls, explann

the news took four days by swift messenger to reach newyork city.

what is the role of "by swift messenger" ?


it actually sounds sillier to me I guess.
but seriously give preeminence to redundancy in eliminating wrong options in difficult SC questions.
if you do that the remaining option is E.
but i guess "by swift messenger" was used as a means of transport.
e.g. the news took ten days by train to reach masach...

hit kudos if it helps.



Hi, I have a question.
Shouldn't it be passive because the news was sent by swift messenger
Passive + by?

Thanks :)

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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pattamop wrote:


Hi, I have a question.
Shouldn't it be passive because the news was sent by swift messenger
Passive + by?

Thanks :)


Both of the following are alright:
The news was sent by swift messenger.
The news took four days by swift messenger to reach.

Compare the second construction with the following:
It took six hours by train to reach Berlin.

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 30 Dec 2016, 00:57
I need explanation with regards to the following:

In option A it says ...... " , but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger" wouldn't "which" here, separated by the comma modify the entire phrase before it, hence modifying the news of these shots? In what cases "which" modifies the entire phrase preceding it and in what case it modifies the noun preceding it?

In option B and C what is "that" modifying...the shots?



"The first shots of the American Revolution".... is the subject singular here

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 30 Dec 2016, 04:23
stevegt wrote:
The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Concord. Massachusetts, were, according to legend, heard around the world, but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days to reach Charleston, South Carolina.

A. shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days
B. shots that was sent by swift messenger took four days in order to reach New York City, and also another eleven days
C. shots that were sent by swift messenger took four days to reach New York City and another eleven days
D. shots took four days by swift messenger in order to reach New York City and another eleven days in addition
E. shots took four days by swift messenger to reach New York City and another eleven days


Choices A & C can be eliminated because of incorrect SV Number usage [News is singular]
Choice D uses 'another' & 'in addition' - Redundant.
Choice B uses and also - Redundant.

So choice E.
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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 30 Dec 2016, 04:48
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avaneeshvyas wrote:
I need explanation with regards to the following:

In option A it says ...... " , but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger" wouldn't "which" here, separated by the comma modify the entire phrase before it, hence modifying the news of these shots? In what cases "which" modifies the entire phrase preceding it and in what case it modifies the noun preceding it?

In option B and C what is "that" modifying...the shots?



"The first shots of the American Revolution".... is the subject singular here

Hi avaneeshvyas. Let me try to explain this, but please mind that I'm not an expert. Haha.

Quote:
In option A it says ...... " , but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger" wouldn't "which" here, separated by the comma modify the entire phrase before it, hence modifying the news of these shots? In what cases "which" modifies the entire phrase preceding it and in what case it modifies the noun preceding it?

Which modifies the subject of the preceding clause when separated by a comma and the preceding noun when not separated by a comma.
  • but news of these shots, which was sent by swift messenger --> which here refers to the news.
  • but news of these shots which were sent by swift messenger, --> which here refers to the shots.


Just did some research and it seems like which should always be preceded by a comma in GMAT English.

See this link: http://www.beatthegmat.com/use-of-comma ... 30483.html

Quote:
In option B and C what is "that" modifying...the shots?

Yes, "that" is modifying "the shots."

Quote:
"The first shots of the American Revolution".... is the subject singular here

The subject is "The first shots" [Remove prep phrase of the AR]. "Shots" is plural.

See this article by Magoosh: https://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/that-vs-w ... -the-gmat/

Hope it helps :D
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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 30 Dec 2016, 06:47
Sirakri wrote:
avaneeshvyas wrote:
I need explanation with regards to the following:

In option A it says ...... " , but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger" wouldn't "which" here, separated by the comma modify the entire phrase before it, hence modifying the news of these shots? In what cases "which" modifies the entire phrase preceding it and in what case it modifies the noun preceding it?

In option B and C what is "that" modifying...the shots?



"The first shots of the American Revolution".... is the subject singular here

Hi avaneeshvyas. Let me try to explain this, but please mind that I'm not an expert. Haha.

Quote:
In option A it says ...... " , but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger" wouldn't "which" here, separated by the comma modify the entire phrase before it, hence modifying the news of these shots? In what cases "which" modifies the entire phrase preceding it and in what case it modifies the noun preceding it?

Which modifies the subject of the preceding clause when separated by a comma and the preceding noun when not separated by a comma.
  • but news of these shots, which was sent by swift messenger --> which here refers to the news.
  • but news of these shots which were sent by swift messenger, --> which here refers to the shots.


Just did some research and it seems like which should always be preceded by a comma in GMAT English.

See this link: http://www.beatthegmat.com/use-of-comma ... 30483.html

Quote:
In option B and C what is "that" modifying...the shots?

Yes, "that" is modifying "the shots."

Quote:
"The first shots of the American Revolution".... is the subject singular here

The subject is "The first shots" [Remove prep phrase of the AR]. "Shots" is plural.

See this article by Magoosh: https://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/that-vs-w ... -the-gmat/

Hope it helps :D



Even though you are not an expert, you have expertly answered all my questions..... :-D .... hope my sentence is grammatically correct.... :P

this is a question from the gmat prep so I am guessing that which preceded by a comma being a must is not a water tight rule for GMAT.... anyways...thank you for the explanation and help

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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avaneeshvyas wrote:
I need explanation with regards to the following:

In option A it says ...... " , but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger" wouldn't "which" here, separated by the comma modify the entire phrase before it, hence modifying the news of these shots? In what cases "which" modifies the entire phrase preceding it and in what case it modifies the noun preceding it?

In option B and C what is "that" modifying...the shots?



"The first shots of the American Revolution".... is the subject singular here


Just to add to the above explanations:

Your query 1:

A relative clause modifier (starting with which, who, whom, that, when, how etc.) may be noun modifiers or verb modifiers depending on the word used to introduce the clause. Which, who, whom, that etc. always introduce a noun modifier (because these are pronouns, and pronouns are used to replace nouns), whereas when, how etc. introduce a verb modifier (because these are adverbs, and adverbs are used to refer to verbs).
(In some guides verb modifiers are referred to as modifier of entire clause)

I have seen the dog, which barks at night...... noun modifier (Refers to dog)
I know the man, who lives here.... noun modifier (refers to man)
I was there, when you came...... verb modifier (refers to was)
I do not know, how he did that feat... verb modifier (Refers to know)

Coming to your query, a modifier starting with "which" can NEVER refer to an entire clause - it must refer to a noun or a noun phrase.

Your query 2:

"That" can be used in two ways:

a. To introduce a new copy of a noun: Must be singular
The car I have is bigger than that you have. ("that" introduces a new copy of "car") - in this case "that" MUST be singular and cannot be used to replace a plural noun.
The cars I have are bigger than that you have.... wrong (should be those you have)

b. To introduce a relative clause: MAY be singular OR plural
The car that I bought was stolen..... correct
The cars that I bought were stolen..... correct

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 09 Apr 2017, 16:46
The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Concord. Massachusetts, were, according to legend, heard around the world, but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days to reach Charleston, South Carolina.

A. shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days
wordy and subject verb disagreement.
B. shots that was sent by swift messenger took four days in order to reach New York City, and also another eleven days
wordy
C. shots that were sent by swift messenger took four days to reach New York City and another eleven days
the news is singular and cannot be referd by 'were'
D. shots took four days by swift messenger in order to reach New York City and another eleven days in addition
wordy
E. shots took four days by swift messenger to reach New York City and another eleven days
Correct subject verb agreement,

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jun 2017, 02:22
A. shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days --> redundancy
B. shots that was sent by swift messenger took four days in order to reach New York City, and also another eleven days --> redundancy
C. shots that were sent by swift messenger took four days to reach New York City and another eleven days --> but news of these shots that were sent ???
D. shots took four days by swift messenger in order to reach New York City and another eleven days in addition --> redundancy
E. shots took four days by swift messenger to reach New York City and another eleven days


guys pls keep it simple
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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jun 2017, 03:02
Imo E
Concise and conveys intended meaning

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jun 2017, 03:45
abhishekdadarwal2009 wrote:
The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Concord. Massachusetts, were, according to legend, heard around the world, but news of these shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days to reach Charleston, South Carolina.

A. shots, which were sent by swift messenger, took four days in reaching New York City as well as another additional eleven days
wordy and subject verb disagreement.
B. shots that was sent by swift messenger took four days in order to reach New York City, and also another eleven days
wordy
C. shots that were sent by swift messenger took four days to reach New York City and another eleven days
the news is singular and cannot be referd by 'were'
D. shots took four days by swift messenger in order to reach New York City and another eleven days in addition
wordy
E. shots took four days by swift messenger to reach New York City and another eleven days
Correct subject verb agreement,



Hi,

I have a question here with option E. Option E looks grammatically correct. isn't the phrase "by swift messenger" tend to modify took four days but not connected to 11 days and they appear to be away from the news .

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 07 Jun 2017, 04:40
nimmi2187 wrote:

Hi,

I have a question here with option E. Option E looks grammatically correct. isn't the phrase "by swift messenger" tend to modify took four days but not connected to 11 days and they appear to be away from the news .

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Yes, but the meaning is clear because of parallelism in E
E: .... but news of these shots took four days by swift messenger to reach New York City and [news of these shots took] another eleven days [by swift messenger] to reach Charleston, South Carolina

The words in the bracket are assumed because of parallel structure.

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 08 Jun 2017, 02:39
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The core of this topic is that the shots were heard around the word instantly or immediately, while the communication through other means was delayed. It is immaterial whether the news was sent by a swift messenger or by a snail messenger. It could very well have been that it was sent by a special courier to New York and to the other place by ordinary post. Or New York is nearer than South Carolina. All that we have to bother is that the shots took four days in one and additional eleven days in the case and that both these elements around 'and' are parallel. 'By swift messenger' is an adverbial adjunct that is not going to impact either the structure or the content.
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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 03 Aug 2017, 04:31
Can someone explain what is wrong with option C? I was between C and E and chose C on my test :(

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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con [#permalink]

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New post 03 Aug 2017, 04:40
pra1785 wrote:
Can someone explain what is wrong with option C? I was between C and E and chose C on my test :(


Hi pra1785 ,

The usage of 'that' in C is the problem.

Note that 'that' when used in a sentence modifies the nearest noun.

In option C, 'that' is modifying shots. Hence, the meaning is the shots were sent through messengers. Lol. How can you send shots via messengers?

It should be the news sent through messengers. Hence, E is correct.

Does that make sense?
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Re: The first shots of the American Revolution, fired at Lexington and Con   [#permalink] 03 Aug 2017, 04:40

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