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The governors team of advisors, including her education and political

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Re: The governors team of advisors, including her education and political [#permalink]

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New post 16 Feb 2013, 13:22
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Darmody wrote:
Hi guys,

I have seen this question on manhattan gmat and even though I got the correct answer but still was not really convinced by the use of the pronoun "her" to refer to the governor who is only present in the possessive "the governor's team". I also read this topic about this sentence where some people seem to believe it is a wrong usage :
http://gmatclub.com/forum/the-governors-team-of-advisors-including-her-education-and-75712.html?hilit=The%20governor%E2%80%99s%20team%20of%20advisors


Please can somebody convincingly give the final word on whether a pronouns which refers to an antecedent in the possessive form are accepted by the GMAT or not ? Thanks a lot!


Hi Darmody,

"her" is a possessive pronoun and it can refer to the possessive "governor's". If you consider the original sentence, the answer choice (A) uses "the governor" in the underlined part because "she" can not be used for a possessive noun "governor's"

The following sentence will be correct as per GMAT

The editor's team and his family went to the ceremony.

The following will not be correct

The editor's team accompanied him to the ceremony.

The following will be correct

The editor's team accompanied the editor and his family to the ceremony.

I hope it clears your doubt,

Vercules
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Re: The governors team of advisors, including her education and political [#permalink]

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New post 16 Feb 2013, 14:15
Archit143 wrote:
adineo wrote:
The governor’s team of advisors, including her education and political strategists, has not been available for comment since the release of her controversial education reform proposal.

A has not been available for comment since the release of her controversial education reform proposal correct Sub-verb usage
B have not been available for comment since the governor released her controversial education reform proposal Singular collective noun team will have a singular verb
C has not been available to make comments since releasing her proposal on controversial education reform seems like the proposal is on controversial education, but the original sentence means that the proposal itself is controversial
D have not been available for comment since releasing her controversial education reform proposal
E has not been available to make comments since the release of her proposal on controversial reform in education wordy plus to make is redundant


Thanks for the answer in a very concise i am not sure whether use of "to make" call s for redundancy.....
If you can clear my doubt on the point that what should be placed next to release proposal or controversial edu......I think its the proposal that is being released hence that should be placed next to release


E is wrong because of the incorrect placement of the word CONTROVERSIAL, which wrongly seems to suggest that the edn reform was controversial in contrast to the intended meaning, as per stimulus,........the proposal per se was controversial.

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Re: The governors team of advisors, including her education and political [#permalink]

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New post 17 Feb 2013, 00:40
ramanujanu wrote:
please help me u'stand how the usage 'has not been able for comment' is a correct usage


Hi ramanujanu,

I agree with you that it is not a very elegant way of expressing the thought. But, the usage, though it may sound awkward is correct. It is not very frequently used in normal written and oral communication.

I got the following example from the net in which "for comment" is used correctly.

Immigration Law Expert Available for Comment on Senators’ Proposal to Overhaul Immigration Laws.

Moreover, choice (A) in the original sentence is the only one that does not contain other apparent grammatical or meaning based errors.

Bottomline: "for comment" is correct.

Tip: before considering the idiomatic usage you should try to eliminate the answer choices based on contextual meaning and grammar.

Hope that helps,

Vercules
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Re: The governors team of advisors, including her education and political [#permalink]

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New post 14 Dec 2015, 13:26
BKimball wrote:
petrifiedbutstanding wrote:
I still don't understand why it can't be D. The former part of the statement anyway uses her in reference to the governor.


Petrified -

This is a classic GMAT trick. Remember the rule here: all pronouns must have antecedents in the sentence. "She" and "her" are pronouns that are trying to refer back to the governor. However, nowhere in this sentence do we have the noun "governor." What we do have is: "the governor's team of advisors." However, here the noun is "team of advisors" and "the governor's" is serving not as a noun, but as an adjective modifying the team itself.

We even have a name for this mistake: possessive poison.

Does that help you see why D is wrong?

Brett


The response I've quoted above is precisely why I am confused about this question. All answer choices except B are missing the proper antecedent "governor", however B is incorrect due to "have" being incorrectly paired with "team". All answer choices contain "her", a pronoun which should refer to antecedent "governor"... However all answer choices except B refer to the "governor's team of advisors".

Am I wrong here?

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Re: The governors team of advisors, including her education and political [#permalink]

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New post 11 Sep 2016, 12:39
There is a simple Rule to understand the usage of Pronouns for Possessives:

Possessives can only be referred by possessive pronouns - her, his, its, and so on.
Nouns can only be referred by "simple" pronouns - she, he, it, and so on.

Example:

Apple's color is red but its taste is bad - Right. Here, "its" is referring to apple and we can taste it. So, this is right.
Apple's color is red but it tastes bad - Wrong. Notice the parallelism created by "but"? - Color is Red - BUT - It tastes Bad - Here, "it" is referring to the color of apple and we cannot taste colors.

One more time,
Did you notice the usage of "it" in explanation of 1st example above - Here, "its" is referring to apple and we can taste it. - Apple is in the sentence and hence we can use "it" to refer to apple.

Coming back to original issue,

The governor’s team of advisors, including her education and political strategists, has not been available for comment since she released her controversial education reform proposal.

"Her" refers to the governor and "She" is referring to her Team. Since, the word Team does not has a gender, there is no antecedent for the word "She".
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Re: The governors team of advisors, including her education and political [#permalink]

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New post 05 Jan 2017, 00:01
The OA is correct and explanations provided in the thread appear sufficient. If there are any specific questions, please post them here and then click again on the "Request Expert Reply" button – closing this request.

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Re: The governors team of advisors, including her education and political [#permalink]

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New post 18 May 2017, 18:13
This was a tricky question in that I identified the initial testing topic- verb-subject agreement- but almost tripped up on the pronoun use.

I had narrowed it down to A and D using the initial split between "has/have". Here I recognized that the subject noun was "team" as the word "governor's" shifted the noun to team and "of advisors" was a modifying prepositional phrase (right?). the way collective nouns work here is that "team" is considered singular. The proper agreement is "team has" not "team have" if you drop the fluff- "governor's....of advisors".

The tricky part for me was choosing from the split "governor/she" in answer choice A/D. The question became who does the "she" refer to? I initially thought that the non-essential (right?) modifier "including her education and political strategist" provided a correct chain of referral for pronouns pointing back to "governor's", but the problem I realized was that "her" is followed by "education and political strategists" and for there not to be any ambiguity as to who's controversial plan was released- the governor- the noun "governor" had to be used rather then the pronoun "she" which could or could not be referring to the "education and political strategists" or "team of advisors" (could it reach that far back?).

I ended up picking "A" in order to not go over the time limit and was not sure of my reasoning besides that I "felt" it worked better. Looking at the question that "feeling" can best be described as what I described above.
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Re: The governors team of advisors, including her education and political [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2017, 16:49
guitargeek wrote:
Is there any exception to this rule in the GMAT? Or whenever we encounter stuff like:
team of scientists HAS done <xyz> etc, we have to use the singular HAS?


The general rule in English is that the Verb agrees with the Subject Noun in gender and quantity:

We have a car. ----- not -- We has a car.

The scientists are happy ---not--- The scientists is happy.

Here the "scientists" refers to a group of scientists, so there are two or more individuals that are referred to as being "happy". However, if it were just one "scientist", then we are referring to one individual and the sentence would read "The scientist is happy."

To be able to deal with more complex reality of life, English requires that we treat "collective nouns" differently. Your question hits at that particular aspect of the Verb-Noun agreement rule. Words like team, group, agency, delegation- among others- refer to a group of people, but the word itself when used as a subject noun IS NOT plural, it is single.

When using these collective nouns, you have to use only the verbs that refer to singular nouns: The team of scientists is happy.

Its true that the team refers to "scientists" however, the "of" in front of the scientists makes that a descriptive prepositional phrase is modifying the word "team." Who is the "team" composed of? - Scientists, more then one scientists. Who is happy? The scientists that compose the team, but its not part of the team, its not an individual in the team, it is the entire team, the entire team of scientists.

Here is a link to a good number of SC questions on the GMATClub.
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Re: The governors team of advisors, including her education and political [#permalink]

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New post 21 May 2017, 03:42
I got it wrong but upon second reading i realized my mistake .
The noun in prepositional phrases can not be noun of the sentence , here Team is the subject of the sentence.
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Re: The governors team of advisors, including her education and political [#permalink]

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New post 01 Jun 2017, 05:50
Hi GMATNinja ,

Here, In option E - available to make comments is grammatically correct or wrong ? . Just a general doubt.
I agree she is wrong in E.
I was just wondering if "available for comment" is better than "available to make comment " .Please throw some light here. :) .

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New post 01 Jun 2017, 20:44
The governor’s team of advisors, including her education and political strategists, has not been available for comment since the governor released her controversial education reform proposal.

(A) has not been available for comment since the governor released her controversial education reform proposal correct
(B) have not been available for comment since the governor released her controversial education reform proposal
(C) have not been available for comment since she released her proposal on controversial education reform
(D) has not been available for comment since she released her controversial education reform proposal no antecedent
(E) has not been available to make comments since she released her proposal on controversial reform in education meaning change

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Re: The governors team of advisors, including her education and political [#permalink]

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New post 16 Jun 2017, 19:28
Nightmare007 wrote:
Hi GMATNinja ,

Here, In option E - available to make comments is grammatically correct or wrong ? . Just a general doubt.
I agree she is wrong in E.
I was just wondering if "available for comment" is better than "available to make comment " .Please throw some light here. :) .


"Available for comment" is the way somebody would typically say this, but I'm not 100% sure that "available to make comments" is necessarily wrong -- it would just be a little bit unusual to say it that way.

And I think it's very, very unlikely that you'll ever see this particular idiom in an actual GMAT question, so don't worry about it too much!
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Re: The governors team of advisors, including her education and political   [#permalink] 16 Jun 2017, 19:28

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