Last visit was: 20 Nov 2025, 03:44 It is currently 20 Nov 2025, 03:44
Home
GMAT
Messages
Tests
Schools
Events
Rewards
Chat
My Profile
Close
GMAT Club Daily Prep
Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History
Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.
Go to My Error Log Learn more
Close
Request Expert Reply
Confirm Cancel
User avatar
trader1
User avatar
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Last visit: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 385
Own Kudos:
62
Given Kudos: 5
Location: Europe
Concentration: General Management
Schools:St. Gallen '09
Posts: 385
Kudos: 62
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 06:42
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
jb32
Schiff is known as Dr. Doom. He predicts we will always be in recession. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Show more

Faber and Roubini are also known as Dr. Doom...
User avatar
trader1
User avatar
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Last visit: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 385
Own Kudos:
62
Given Kudos: 5
Location: Europe
Concentration: General Management
Schools:St. Gallen '09
Posts: 385
Kudos: 62
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 06:44
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Paradosso
trader,

while I have not read Sinclair or Schiff (I listened to the pianist, though) and I cannot comment on them, I believe that you can always find someone who saw it all in advance, given that everybody has a say these days.

Yet it is safe to say that the consensus, after the write-offs (especially UBS's) and major houses losing 25-50% of their value, was that the market was to stabilize.

Besides, yesterday the Dow lost much less that was expected, considering $600B to be unwinded by Lehman. I hear about '31 a lot, but it seems to me this does not even come close to 10/19/87.
Show more

When it comes to markets, you always question the consensus...

And, I wasn't buying it...
User avatar
Ntang
User avatar
Joined: 09 Sep 2008
Last visit: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 162
Own Kudos:
19
Posts: 162
Kudos: 19
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 07:02
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
In all fairness, I agree that doomsdayers like Roubini aren't always to be taken at full weight. But one problem over the last nine years (prob since the deregulation of 1999) is that too LITTLE credit was given to analyses predicting long-term unsustainability in the financial markets, and (imho) weak or no real leadership was there to change anything for the better. Thus, you get major, destabilizing corrections like this one.

Banking and finance jobs will be back. Give it a few years. The news media loves to compare things to historic disasters like 1987 or the Great Depression - my little sister is an example of someone who believes that crap, and she moved down to Panama about a year ago, predicting the imminent collapse of Western capitalism. Nevertheless, I'm glad I'm not a finance guy myself.
User avatar
sonibubu
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Last visit: 18 Aug 2011
Posts: 810
Own Kudos:
158
Given Kudos: 1
Location: Chicago
Concentration: Strategy, Management, Finance
Schools:Chicago Booth 2011
Posts: 810
Kudos: 158
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 07:54
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Depressing article by Fortune.

https://money.cnn.com/2008/09/15/news/co ... 2008091514

Basically, the big pay days are gone for Investment bankers. Commercial banks will take over and largely cut the exorbitant pay.

Are UBS, DB, Barclays in trouble too?
User avatar
agold
User avatar
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Last visit: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 1,578
Own Kudos:
300
Location: Southern California
Concentration: Investment Banking
Schools:Chicago (dinged), Tuck (November), Columbia (RD)
Posts: 1,578
Kudos: 300
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 11:44
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
I visited Columbia and NYC this weekend. The whole city was basically going insane. Reporters were lined up outside Lehman's HQ from morning until night trying to capture any footage possible of employees willing to talk.

Every class at CBS opened with a discussion about the crisis and many students are seriously out of luck. CBS is not a cheap school to attend by any means, and they were planning on having cushy IB jobs to pay off their massive debt loads. Now, many of them will have to look at consulting, GM, etc. One guy I met had an offer from Citi, and the MD that hired him called him on Monday morning to ensure him that he will still have a job and that everything is fine at Citi. I thought that was a really nice gesture.

The last thing that I noticed that was very interesting and a little bit off topic - I took a walk on the Upper East Side at about 8:30 AM. Low 60s near the Park. There were a bunch of late 30s/early 40s guys in suits walking their sons to their private schools. I always had an image that Wall Street people were too busy to have the time to do this, and it was very interesting to see.

I am very shaken up overall. I can't see myself committing to applying CBS Early Decision. The main point of me going to that school was for the Wall Street access. If that's looking very bleak, I may as well look at schools with a stronger general management focus. We may have hit the bottom of the current credit crisis, but like soni mentioned, I truly feel that the banking landscape is about to change in a big way.

If I don't get in anywhere this year and don't go to school, I really don't know if I'll be very disappointed. Things look extremely bleak.

By the way, this is good for a laugh:

https://video.yahoo.com/watch/3510366/9745199
User avatar
3underscore
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Last visit: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 1,428
Own Kudos:
234
Given Kudos: 6
Location: New York, NY
Concentration: Finance (Corp Fin, Financial Instruments)
Schools:NYU Stern 2009
Posts: 1,428
Kudos: 234
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 14:14
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Buffett called Derivatives Financial weapons of mass destruction, and then wrote the longest dated option of the largest magnitude ever.

I don't quite get the level of people who are backing away from Schools because the banking career path looks fraught with danger, which is no change from the past. It should be competitive, and will just be a bit more so. I doubt you will see recruitment numbers anywhere near what you have seen them grow to in the past. That said, business school isn't there to give you a well paid job on a plate, and it seems terrifying the number of people who look at it that way.

Roubini is funny, and it is even more funny to hear the contrasting views across the Faculty. As for people calling it right years ago - there are so many people talking on the topic, someone is bound to have been right. Hardly makes them a messiah, just lucky.

The people I feel truly sorry for are friends and others who signed to start at Lehman this summer. It is a savage way to start life. Hopefully Barclays will keep them on.
User avatar
Audio
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Last visit: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 408
Own Kudos:
87
Concentration: Finance
Schools:Wharton, Booth, Stern
Posts: 408
Kudos: 87
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 15:02
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
3underscore
Buffett called Derivatives Financial weapons of mass destruction, and then wrote the longest dated option of the largest magnitude ever.

I don't quite get the level of people who are backing away from Schools because the banking career path looks fraught with danger, which is no change from the past. It should be competitive, and will just be a bit more so. I doubt you will see recruitment numbers anywhere near what you have seen them grow to in the past. That said, business school isn't there to give you a well paid job on a plate, and it seems terrifying the number of people who look at it that way.

Roubini is funny, and it is even more funny to hear the contrasting views across the Faculty. As for people calling it right years ago - there are so many people talking on the topic, someone is bound to have been right. Hardly makes them a messiah, just lucky.

The people I feel truly sorry for are friends and others who signed to start at Lehman this summer. It is a savage way to start life. Hopefully Barclays will keep them on.
Show more

Well, since a lot of people are doing an MBA to get into IB, it seems pretty normal that those people start thinking twice. As for current students, it won't be competitive, it will be bloodshed: even getting a summer internship in IB will be incredibly difficult I reckon.

Finally, no, business schools are not employment agencies: that said, who in his right mind would have a 160k debt on his back without any relative assurance to get a very well paid job? I mean, let's be honest about this whole thing: when you pay so much money, I don't think it's outrageous to expect that you will get the chance to have a well-remunerated job. That's why schools are so expensive in the first place.
User avatar
agold
User avatar
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Last visit: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 1,578
Own Kudos:
300
Location: Southern California
Concentration: Investment Banking
Schools:Chicago (dinged), Tuck (November), Columbia (RD)
Posts: 1,578
Kudos: 300
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 15:17
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Audio
3underscore
Buffett called Derivatives Financial weapons of mass destruction, and then wrote the longest dated option of the largest magnitude ever.

I don't quite get the level of people who are backing away from Schools because the banking career path looks fraught with danger, which is no change from the past. It should be competitive, and will just be a bit more so. I doubt you will see recruitment numbers anywhere near what you have seen them grow to in the past. That said, business school isn't there to give you a well paid job on a plate, and it seems terrifying the number of people who look at it that way.

Roubini is funny, and it is even more funny to hear the contrasting views across the Faculty. As for people calling it right years ago - there are so many people talking on the topic, someone is bound to have been right. Hardly makes them a messiah, just lucky.

The people I feel truly sorry for are friends and others who signed to start at Lehman this summer. It is a savage way to start life. Hopefully Barclays will keep them on.

Well, since a lot of people are doing an MBA to get into IB, it seems pretty normal that those people start thinking twice. As for current students, it won't be competitive, it will be bloodshed: even getting a summer internship in IB will be incredibly difficult I reckon.

Finally, no, business schools are not employment agencies: that said, who in his right mind would have a 160k debt on his back without any relative assurance to get a very well paid job? I mean, let's be honest about this whole thing: when you pay so much money, I don't think it's outrageous to expect that you will get the chance to have a well-remunerated job. That's why schools are so expensive in the first place.
Show more

You hit it on the head. Additionally, school decisions have to be made with this in mind as well. Let's say that you're looking to get into banking, but graduate into a terrible market and it no longer becomes a realistic option. You have to settle for a far less paying GM or Consultnig position. If your school options were UChicago with $150K in debt and Duke with $40K in debt, and you decided to choose UChicago, this also gets very dicey. No one expects anything to be handed to them on a silver platter - but I think that everyone tries to make rational decisions to manage the various risks that they face. This is what I am currently trying to get a grasp on.
User avatar
kidderek
User avatar
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Last visit: 13 Jul 2019
Posts: 1,960
Own Kudos:
364
Posts: 1,960
Kudos: 364
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 15:33
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
terp06


By the way, this is good for a laugh:

https://video.yahoo.com/watch/3510366/9745199
Show more


Richard and Sal the Stockbroker. hahahaha

If you look closely enough, they don't actually kiss or anything. But they have done a lot worse on their show.
User avatar
GoBruin
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Last visit: 26 Jan 2017
Posts: 1,262
Own Kudos:
175
Given Kudos: 20
Concentration: Management Consulting
Schools: Ross 2012
WE 1: 5 Years at Fortune 50 Company in Manufacturing
Posts: 1,262
Kudos: 175
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 15:41
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Is this the end of the term 'Bulge bracket'

should we start with 'dynamic duo'

So how many 'Bulge brackets' do we actually have left... in accounting it used to be big 8, big 6, big5, now big 4.... is that the same way for IB?? Opinion??
User avatar
agold
User avatar
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Last visit: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 1,578
Own Kudos:
300
Location: Southern California
Concentration: Investment Banking
Schools:Chicago (dinged), Tuck (November), Columbia (RD)
Posts: 1,578
Kudos: 300
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 16:07
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
GoBruins
Is this the end of the term 'Bulge bracket'

should we start with 'dynamic duo'

So how many 'Bulge brackets' do we actually have left... in accounting it used to be big 8, big 6, big5, now big 4.... is that the same way for IB?? Opinion??
Show more

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulge_bracket
User avatar
GoBruin
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 05 Aug 2008
Last visit: 26 Jan 2017
Posts: 1,262
Own Kudos:
175
Given Kudos: 20
Concentration: Management Consulting
Schools: Ross 2012
WE 1: 5 Years at Fortune 50 Company in Manufacturing
Posts: 1,262
Kudos: 175
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 16:18
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
I've seen the list before, but I'm not sure bulge bracket is that definitative, seems there are variations.
User avatar
IHateTheGMAT
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Last visit: 25 Jul 2011
Posts: 623
Own Kudos:
61
Concentration: Investment Banking or Investment Management
Posts: 623
Kudos: 61
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 17:02
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
terp06
GoBruins
Is this the end of the term 'Bulge bracket'

should we start with 'dynamic duo'

So how many 'Bulge brackets' do we actually have left... in accounting it used to be big 8, big 6, big5, now big 4.... is that the same way for IB?? Opinion??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulge_bracket
Show more

I would say that's the generally agreed upon list. I'm surprised they already updated it for ML and Lehman. I would argue that when Barclays completes its acquisitions of Lehmans US Ibank operations (9,000 people) they will be added to this list. I notice they already added bank of america (as a result of the ML acquisition). So, 3 banks dropped off the list but 2 were added. It's far from the end of the bulge bracket. It will still take a while for recruiting to recover, but when it does there are still plenty of bulge bracket banks that will have major presence at the top schools. 9 bulge bracket banks in fact.
User avatar
riverripper
User avatar
Major Poster
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Last visit: 20 Aug 2022
Posts: 4,306
Own Kudos:
806
Given Kudos: 5
Location: Back in Chicago, IL
Concentration: General/Operations Management
Schools:Kellogg Alum: Class of 2010
GMAT 1: 740 Q49 V42
Posts: 4,306
Kudos: 806
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 18:42
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
While not a finance school, this has still been a big topic of conversation around Kellogg. Its played come up in some of the career forums, but I guess not being a finance school is a huge advantage. Not many people here plan to go into banking, they are actually going to bring in more boutique this year to make up the difference (Kellogg is bringing in the largest number of finance firms ever this year). They arent telling people who want to switch not to try but I think its clear that its going to be a test of your commitment.

One thing to think about at this point since the competition for the MC and GM jobs is going to drastically increase this year. Lehman and ML are two of the top hirers at a many of the top 10, taking huge numbers from schools like Chicago and Columbia...its definitely going to affect all schools but really going to hurt some more than others. So not as many folks will be as successful this year with the banking path so a lot of people will be looking else where.

Interesting note, as of this weekend Goldman hadnt released offers yet...so that might point to the news at Lehman and ML having a broader impact.
User avatar
isa
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Last visit: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 1,687
Own Kudos:
224
Given Kudos: 31
Concentration: Healthcare, Strategy, MC
Schools:Kellogg '11
Posts: 1,687
Kudos: 224
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 19:53
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
On a...er...different note: https://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-lehman-bros-are-lookin-for-love-on-craigslist/

:lol:
User avatar
Audio
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 13 Jun 2007
Last visit: 31 Jul 2012
Posts: 408
Own Kudos:
87
Concentration: Finance
Schools:Wharton, Booth, Stern
Posts: 408
Kudos: 87
The news on Lehman 16 Sep 2008, 21:48
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
One story we're not really talking about: thank god AIG is being saved.
User avatar
3underscore
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Last visit: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 1,428
Own Kudos:
234
Given Kudos: 6
Location: New York, NY
Concentration: Finance (Corp Fin, Financial Instruments)
Schools:NYU Stern 2009
Posts: 1,428
Kudos: 234
The news on Lehman 17 Sep 2008, 07:05
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Quote:

Well, since a lot of people are doing an MBA to get into IB, it seems pretty normal that those people start thinking twice. As for current students, it won't be competitive, it will be bloodshed: even getting a summer internship in IB will be incredibly difficult I reckon.

Finally, no, business schools are not employment agencies: that said, who in his right mind would have a 160k debt on his back without any relative assurance to get a very well paid job? I mean, let's be honest about this whole thing: when you pay so much money, I don't think it's outrageous to expect that you will get the chance to have a well-remunerated job. That's why schools are so expensive in the first place.
Show more

Quote:
You hit it on the head. Additionally, school decisions have to be made with this in mind as well. Let's say that you're looking to get into banking, but graduate into a terrible market and it no longer becomes a realistic option. You have to settle for a far less paying GM or Consultnig position. If your school options were UChicago with $150K in debt and Duke with $40K in debt, and you decided to choose UChicago, this also gets very dicey. No one expects anything to be handed to them on a silver platter - but I think that everyone tries to make rational decisions to manage the various risks that they face. This is what I am currently trying to get a grasp on.
Show more

Sure it can influence a certain amount of school choice, but I can't see why it should influence a yes / no choice on school or career. A down market doesn't mean no jobs in banking, and it means the jobs there are likely to give you a lot bigger lead in your role and what you can do. The difficulty I have is that the lack of passion and interest people show in the field, beyond the monetary compensation. If you want the career path you will be able to get it - the level of commitment directly translates to results.

I just find it difficult when I hear people discuss that IB looks really tricky right now, so maybe they ought look at MC or something. Maybe I am weird in that I think people should actually really want the career they are going for so much that they are confident, or more insistent that it can happen.

Besides, these are all people guessing for what this means applying for 2009, graduate 2011. Maybe look back and see who could have seen this in 2006 for the class graduating 2009. Impossible to call. The value of your MBA and the education is what you are paying for, like it or not.
User avatar
rhyme
User avatar
Major Poster
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Last visit: 02 Dec 2024
Posts: 5,909
Own Kudos:
3,172
Given Kudos: 7
Affiliations: HHonors Diamond, BGS Honor Society
Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2009
GMAT 1: 730 Q45 V45
WE:Business Development (Consumer Packaged Goods)
Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2009
GMAT 1: 730 Q45 V45
Posts: 5,909
Kudos: 3,172
The news on Lehman 17 Sep 2008, 07:43
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Agreed. A lot of people who did banking for the summer are suddenly talking about MC. I can appreciate that banking isn't doing great at the moment and that makes people nervous, but I'm surprised how many people are choosing career paths strictly by immediate earning potential and nothing else.
User avatar
trader1
User avatar
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Last visit: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 385
Own Kudos:
62
Given Kudos: 5
Location: Europe
Concentration: General Management
Schools:St. Gallen '09
Posts: 385
Kudos: 62
The news on Lehman 17 Sep 2008, 08:54
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Audio
One story we're not really talking about: thank god AIG is being saved.
Show more

DOW is down over 2.5% and GOLD up over 7% intraday...

The market is speaking loud and clear
User avatar
Nerdboy
User avatar
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Last visit: 26 Jul 2010
Posts: 210
Own Kudos:
18
Given Kudos: 4
Concentration: General Management, Finance
Schools:INSEAD Dec'10
Posts: 210
Kudos: 18
The news on Lehman 17 Sep 2008, 08:58
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
rhyme
Agreed. A lot of people who did banking for the summer are suddenly talking about MC. I can appreciate that banking isn't doing great at the moment and that makes people nervous, but I'm surprised how many people are choosing career paths strictly by immediate earning potential and nothing else.
Show more

True. However, if you are graduating right now and there are simply no job offers in IB, what do yo do? Maybe they are not choosing at all, just looking at what is available.
   1   2   3   4   5   6   7