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17 Sep 2008, 09:05
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Bookmarks
Nerdboy
How difficult will it be to get back into IB if/when Wall St recovers, if one chooses to do MC post-graduation. I assume the IB internship will be helpful to a certain extent, especially for career changers.
17 Sep 2008, 09:10
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sonibubu
Extremely difficult, I would assume. They would find it awkward to place someone with 2-3 years of post-MBA experience as a 1st year associate, and someone with 2-3 years of MC experience doesn't have enough experience to justify being a 2nd/3rd year associate or 1st year VP. Additionally, banks have very formal and structured recruiting. There are not very many outliers that get in outside of the campus recruiting cycles.
The only way I could see this being possible is if you get into an M&A Advisory or Private Equity Advisory group at lets say McKinsey's New York office, network like crazy, and make it happen.
17 Sep 2008, 10:35
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I'm not at all surprised that 2nd year students who did IB during the summer are now looking at consulting. I believe a very large portion of new MBA students have the goal of landing the best possible job. I think relatively few are highly attached to any particular industry. Banking and consulting firms share many characteristics that are important to MBA students planning their careers. Bulge-bracket banks and top consulting firms have name recognition with MBA students knowing that statistics show people graduating today will change 10 times during their careers, some blue-chip work experience will definitely be valuable down the road. In addition to the name, these jobs both provide experiences that are highly valued down the line. If life situations change 3 years after graduation (need a new profession, new city, more pay, less hours, whatever) a top banking or consulting job will probably offer the most options (of popular MBA destinations).
The recruiting schedule for banking and consulting are both highly structured at the top schools. This is really a very important point - it's easy to see how schmoozing and interview can lead to a job with one of these firms - there's much more uncertainty and much more individual effort required to land other types of jobs. Plus, it's pretty easy to define what people do in each of the professions, and the highly selective nature of both jobs a nice chip to have going forward as well (it shows you beat out a lot of highly qualified people for a desirable job). Both jobs also offer a somewhat structured path to advancement - if you do well you'll be a vice president or senior manager (or whatever title is appropriate for a given firm) after 3-4 years. Can't really say that about a lot of other types of jobs - exactly what does one become after associate brand manager, and how long does that take? What title (and compensation) will you have after an MBA rotational program ends? Other types of jobs are even more nebulous.
Money is another factor of course, but not just starting compensation and signing bonuses (which are high). Banking and consulting both offer substantial compensation increases early on the career (along with bonuses, tuition reimbursement, etc.) In a lot of marketing and general management roles, it's hard to see what you need to do exactly to reach the next level - are you going to be making 3% pay increases for the next 6 years? Who knows. Many MBA students have substantial debt to consider, and many had good jobs before starting business school - nobody wants to spend two years accumulating debt to discover that their lifestyle quotient is now lower (with new debts and expenses) than before they started school, and with no relief in sight.
Certainly, the two professions have big differences. Travel and hours are the two biggest of course; some people will probably view them equally, while others will prefer (actually dislike) one more than the other. Both jobs require analysis, modeling, planning, strategy to different degrees and in many cases the work is pretty similar (check out how much emphasis Bain puts on the PE practice in their presentations). But really, the major factors are the opportunity to juice the career track and the opportunities that these professions open down the road. Most MBA students (at least 2/3 according to adcom presentations I've attended) do not know exactly what they want to do when the step on campus. Banking and consulting recruiting will rope people in during the first year (many people at different schools noted this in another thread), and in many cases people just fall into the recruiting rhythm of a particular track. I bet a lot of people didn't necessarily choose banking as first years because they believed it was the only thing for them, but rather started attending events because banks were the first to show up, were so busy they couldn't consider other job tracks, and accepted offers because banks hand them out first (consulting right afterwards in both cases).
As far as when banking will come back, it's hard to guess. This year is a bloodbath for 2nd year students. I think firms will still do recruiting for first-year students, though relationships have definitely changed. I think it's correct that people who do not get into banking right now will probably not have much opportunity to jump back in 2-3 years from now.
The recruiting schedule for banking and consulting are both highly structured at the top schools. This is really a very important point - it's easy to see how schmoozing and interview can lead to a job with one of these firms - there's much more uncertainty and much more individual effort required to land other types of jobs. Plus, it's pretty easy to define what people do in each of the professions, and the highly selective nature of both jobs a nice chip to have going forward as well (it shows you beat out a lot of highly qualified people for a desirable job). Both jobs also offer a somewhat structured path to advancement - if you do well you'll be a vice president or senior manager (or whatever title is appropriate for a given firm) after 3-4 years. Can't really say that about a lot of other types of jobs - exactly what does one become after associate brand manager, and how long does that take? What title (and compensation) will you have after an MBA rotational program ends? Other types of jobs are even more nebulous.
Money is another factor of course, but not just starting compensation and signing bonuses (which are high). Banking and consulting both offer substantial compensation increases early on the career (along with bonuses, tuition reimbursement, etc.) In a lot of marketing and general management roles, it's hard to see what you need to do exactly to reach the next level - are you going to be making 3% pay increases for the next 6 years? Who knows. Many MBA students have substantial debt to consider, and many had good jobs before starting business school - nobody wants to spend two years accumulating debt to discover that their lifestyle quotient is now lower (with new debts and expenses) than before they started school, and with no relief in sight.
Certainly, the two professions have big differences. Travel and hours are the two biggest of course; some people will probably view them equally, while others will prefer (actually dislike) one more than the other. Both jobs require analysis, modeling, planning, strategy to different degrees and in many cases the work is pretty similar (check out how much emphasis Bain puts on the PE practice in their presentations). But really, the major factors are the opportunity to juice the career track and the opportunities that these professions open down the road. Most MBA students (at least 2/3 according to adcom presentations I've attended) do not know exactly what they want to do when the step on campus. Banking and consulting recruiting will rope people in during the first year (many people at different schools noted this in another thread), and in many cases people just fall into the recruiting rhythm of a particular track. I bet a lot of people didn't necessarily choose banking as first years because they believed it was the only thing for them, but rather started attending events because banks were the first to show up, were so busy they couldn't consider other job tracks, and accepted offers because banks hand them out first (consulting right afterwards in both cases).
As far as when banking will come back, it's hard to guess. This year is a bloodbath for 2nd year students. I think firms will still do recruiting for first-year students, though relationships have definitely changed. I think it's correct that people who do not get into banking right now will probably not have much opportunity to jump back in 2-3 years from now.
