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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
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I think its E
Evidence: fragement of bone flute can play 3rd to 6th notes
Concl: all notes of the scale could be played during that time (which is 1000s of yrs ago)

Concl will be true only if we assume that the missing fragments of flute bone could play the other missing notes
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
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I did some more resarch on the CR and realised the following:

Question - Which of the following, if true, most strongly supports the hypothesis?

Ok..so what is the hypothesis here ?
diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians.

Is there a evidence to support the hypothesis?
yes...there is a fragmnet of bone flute found which has 4 holes.

Ok now some music lessons
diatonic scale is a seven-note musical scale

What is the author assuming here?
The 4 holes on the fragment are required to play 3rd thru 6th notes on the diatonic scale

Now lets go back to the question
Question - Which of the following, if true, most strongly supports the hypothesis?
In other words - We need an answer which will confirm that the fragment was indeed from a flute which played diatonic music

E. The cave-bear leg bone used to make the Neanderthal flute would have been long enough to make a flute capable of playing a complete diatonic scale.E fi

E fits .

Please let me know if you agree with this logic.
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
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Option E is the best choice here. We know that the spacing of the holes supports the diatonic scale argument. The length of the bone flute strengthens the argument even more. We have two pieces of evidence now to support our hypothesis, instead of just one.

It doesn't really matter if there are older or newer flutes. If we discovered an older flute, then the assertion that "the diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians" doesn't change. If there are no flutes older than the one found, then the argument remains the same - the oldest diatonic flute was still used by Neanderthals thousands of years ago.
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
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In this problem "FRAGMENT" is the key word. The passage describes about BONE FRAGMENT and not of the BONE itself.
Bone fragment is part of a bone (some cave-bear bone). The passage goes on to say that this bone fragment had enough length(and actual holes) so as to enable one to play 3-6 notes (say frag-1). The missing 1,2,7 notes of the diatonic scale was probably on some other fragment of the bone (say Frag-2).

So if somehow we know that the the complete bone(length of frag1 + frag2) had the capability to play the entire diatonic scale then we can deduce that diatonic scale was actually invented by the neanderthals and the musicians later adopted it.

Ans.E gives you that evidence.
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
Hi Verbal Experts,
Need some explanation on this question...

Here's mine - IMO E states that complete bone could be used to play complete diatonic scale-from 1st to 7th notes, by the Neanderthal BUT it doesn't state explicitly that diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians.

Whereas B says that the flute found at the Neanderthal campsite is the first musical instrument to have used a diatonic scale. Hence, it clearly supports the conclusion that diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians. But not sure why B is discarded and E is the OA...!!

Please share your detail analysis on the basis of these two options - B & E.
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
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bagdbmba wrote:
Hi Verbal Experts,
Need some explanation on this question...

Here's mine - IMO E states that complete bone could be used to play complete diatonic scale-from 1st to 7th notes, by the Neanderthal BUT it doesn't state explicitly that diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians.

Whereas B says that the flute found at the Neanderthal campsite is the first musical instrument to have used a diatonic scale. Hence, it clearly supports the conclusion that diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians. But not sure why B is discarded and E is the OA...!!

Please share your detail analysis on the basis of these two options - B & E.


Hi bagdmba,

Thank you for your query.

In this question we are asked to find a new piece of information that will support the musicologists hypothesis that :

diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians

The basis for the above theory:

The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated at a Neanderthal campsite is just what is required to play the third through sixth notes of the diatonic scale

What is a diatonic scale:

the seven-note musical scale used in much of Western music since the Renaissance.

Now any piece of information that will solidify the connection between this bone flute fragment and the diatonic scale will be the right choice for supporting the proposed hypothesis.

Answer choice B says:

(B) No musical instrument that is known to have used a diatonic scale is of an earlier date than the flute found at the Neanderthal campsite.


The information given above effectively means that there is no known record of a musical instrument that was diatonic and that pre-dates the bone flute. Now is the hypothesis proposed by the musicologists concerned with proving that the found flute fragment was part of the first ever diatonic instrument? The answer is a big NO! It does not matter whether there was any instrument before the bone flute that could play the diatonic scale. All we need to establish is that the whole flute (whose fragment has been found) itself was diatonic. The information given in answer choice B does not help in doing so.

Whereas choice E says:

(E) The cave-bear leg bone used to make the Neanderthal flute would have been long enough to make a flute capable of playing a complete diatonic scale.

Now, this choice rightly solidifies the connection between the diatonic scale and the bone flute. Please note that in the prompt, we are told that the four holes could play third through the sixth note but the diatonic scale has seven notes. This means, if we factor in the information given in answer choice E, we can establish that the fragment of the bone flute found was could have been part of a longer flute which could have played all the seven notes of the diatonic scale. Hence, choice E is the correct answer.

Hope the above analysis helps!

Neeti.
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
HI Neeti,
Thanks for your detail reply but unfortunately the doubt still remains wide open :-(

I think our job is to provide support in favor of the conclusion/hypothesis which says that diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians. Right?

Hence, please tell me how option E does that? There is no mention of time in this option!

Please clarify.
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
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Hi baddmba,

Thank you for your post. Please find my comments below your analysis that:

IMO E states that complete bone could be used to play complete diatonic scale-from 1st to 7th notes, by the Neanderthal BUT it doesn't state explicitly that diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians.


You are not focusing on the aspect that by showing that the bone -flute could play the complete diatonic scale (a new piece of information provided in choice E), a central assumption made by the musicologists is strengthened. We indeed need to support their hypothesis BUT in doing so we do need to consider the reasoning provided by them. As of now the logic cited by the musicologists is that since the fragment showed that the flute had the potential to play the third note up till the sixth one, the diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians. This means that they are taking for granted that the whole flute could play the complete seven notes of the diatonic scale. This is the assumption that answer choice E supports. As regards the time aspect mentioned by the musicologists, the basis for the same is the fact that the fragment was excavated from a Neanderthal campsite. Since that is a premise, we have to take the time connection on face value. Hence, by supporting that the whole bone-flute, whose fragment was excavated from a Neanderthal campsite (the time aspect), could play the diatonic scale, answer choice E supports the musicologists’ hypothesis.

Hope the above analysis helps :) .

Neeti.

Originally posted by egmat on 20 Dec 2013, 23:05.
Last edited by egmat on 20 Dec 2013, 23:58, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
VeritasKarishma AjiteshArun
Can you please explain why B is wrong though I read the above discussion but I am still not crystal clear why that is wrong ?
According to B the bone is the first known musical instrument to use diatonic scale hence it proves the conclusion
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
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teaserbae wrote:
VeritasKarishma AjiteshArun
Can you please explain why B is wrong though I read the above discussion but I am still not crystal clear why that is wrong ?
According to B the bone is the first known musical instrument to use diatonic scale hence it proves the conclusion
Option B just says that nothing before the flute was "diatonic". That does not mean that the bone flute was "diatonic". :)

Look at it this way:
1. This is the reasoning given to us: the bone flute fragment could be used to play notes 3-6 of the diatonic scale. The bone flute is old. Therefore the bone flute is evidence that the diatonic scale existed long back.
2. One of the biggest problems here is that we still don't know whether the bone flute was actually capable of producing all the notes of the diatonic scale (there are 7 notes in the diatonic scale, but the flute fragment can be used to play only 4 of them).
3. Option B says that nothing before the flute was "diatonic". This does not show that the flute itself was "diatonic", so the statement that the diatonic scale existed long back is not strengthened.

Something similar: a manuscript with some of the chapters of a book was found before the book's first known publication date. Therefore the book must have been published earlier than the first known publication date. We can't strengthen this by saying that no copies of the book older than the manuscript have been found, because that still doesn't tell us that the manuscript had all the chapters of the book. For all we know, maybe we're looking at an early draft, and not the whole book.
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
AjiteshArun wrote:
teaserbae wrote:
VeritasKarishma AjiteshArun
Can you please explain why B is wrong though I read the above discussion but I am still not crystal clear why that is wrong ?
According to B the bone is the first known musical instrument to use diatonic scale hence it proves the conclusion
Option B just says that nothing before the flute was "diatonic". That does not mean that the bone flute was "diatonic". :)

Look at it this way:
1. This is the reasoning given to us: the bone flute fragment could be used to play notes 3-6 of the diatonic scale. The bone flute is old. Therefore the bone flute is evidence that the diatonic scale existed long back.
2. One of the biggest problems here is that we still don't know whether the bone flute was actually capable of producing all the notes of the diatonic scale (there are 7 notes in the diatonic scale, but the flute fragment can be used to play only 4 of them).
3. Option B says that nothing before the flute was "diatonic". This does not show that the flute itself was "diatonic", so the statement that the diatonic scale existed long back is not strengthened.

Something similar: a manuscript with some of the chapters of a book was found before the book's first known publication date. Therefore the book must have been published earlier than the first known publication date. We can't strengthen this by saying that no copies of the book older than the manuscript have been found, because that still doesn't tell us that the manuscript had all the chapters of the book. For all we know, maybe we're looking at an early draft, and not the whole book.


I have a different interpretation in B
No musical instrument that is known to have used a diatonic scale is of an earlier date than the flute found at the Neanderthal campsite.
Like : Before Rishabh no boy gave GMAT doesn't it imply Rishabh gave gmat ?
Similarly in B it implies flute has used a diatonic scale
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teaserbae wrote:
I have a different interpretation in B
No musical instrument that is known to have used a diatonic scale is of an earlier date than the flute found at the Neanderthal campsite.
Like : Before Rishabh no boy gave GMAT doesn't it imply Rishabh gave gmat ?
Similarly in B it implies flute has used a diatonic scale
Let's read option B carefully. Option B is:

(1) No musical instrument that is known to have used a diatonic scale (2) is of an earlier date than (3) the flute found at the Neanderthal campsite.

Clearly, (1) tells us that there are musical instruments that are known to have used a diatonic scale. The sentence as a whole tells us that no such instrument is older than the flute. This does not confirm that the flute uses a diatonic scale. It's a little like saying:

No person who is known to work in your company is older than the President.

Let's check whether that sentence includes enough information to assert that the President works in your company. The possibilities are:

1. The President does not work at your company.
2. The President works at your company, but that is not "known".

We can't say which is "true" without further information.
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
I have a doubt.
What if the cave bear was present only from 100-150years?
Then we cannot say that the flute was made 1000 years ago.

We don't know the bear's age.
Can anyone clarify my doubt ?
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
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Prasannathawait wrote:
I have a doubt.
What if the cave bear was present only from 100-150years?
Then we cannot say that the flute was made 1000 years ago.

We don't know the bear's age.
Can anyone clarify my doubt ?
The question does say that the bone flute (fragment) "was excavated at a Neanderthal campsite".

But, more importantly, we need to keep in mind that the question asks us to "support(s) the hypothesis". Why would we go out of our way to assume something that ends up weakening the hypothesis?
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated at a Neanderthal campsite is just what is required to play the third through sixth notes of the diatonic scale—the seven-note musical scale used in much of Western music since the Renaissance. Musicologists therefore hypothesize that the diatonic musical scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians.

Premise: the flute excavated at Neanderthal campsite could be used to play 3 out of 7 notes in diatonic scale
Conclusion: Nean developed diatonic scale and the invention was later adopted by Western musicians


Which of the following, if true, most strongly supports the hypothesis?

To support the hypothesis, we should make the conclusion more likely to happen.

(A) Bone flutes were probably the only musical instrument made by Neanderthals. So what?

(B) No musical instrument that is known to have used a diatonic scale is of an earlier date than the flute found at the Neanderthal campsite. we care about the Nean flute, not compared with other musical instruments

(C) The flute was made from a cave-bear bone and the campsite at which the flute fragment was excavated was in a cave that also contained skeletal remains of cave bears. cave bear is not what we care

(D) Flutes are the simplest wind instrument that can be constructed to allow playing a diatonic scale. really! Who should care about its simplicity?

(E) The cave-bear leg bone used to make the Neanderthal flute would have been long enough to make a flute capable of playing a complete diatonic scale. Oh yes, it show that the flute has more space to accommodate more hole --> some probability that more holes really exist. It may not actually exist but there is a slight chane --> argument strengthened a little bit
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Re: The spacing of the four holes on a fragment of a bone flute excavated [#permalink]
Hi avigutman

Why is A incorrect?

If the bone flute was the only instrument made by Neanderthals, it shows the bone flute was made by Neanderthals

I thought the fact that the flute was made by Neanderthals made it a bit more likely that the diatonic scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians.

Reasoning :

Neanderthals have been around for millions of years. If Neanderthals did develop and build the flute per option A : its a bit more likely that the diatonic scale was used far before the renaissance period (renaissance period is only 500 years old)

Where is the gap in my thinking
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jabhatta2 wrote:
Hi avigutman

Why is A incorrect?

If the bone flute was the only instrument made by Neanderthals, it shows the bone flute was made by Neanderthals

I thought the fact that the flute was made by Neanderthals made it a bit more likely that the diatonic scale was developed and used thousands of years before it was adopted by Western musicians.

Reasoning :

Neanderthals have been around for millions of years. If Neanderthals did develop and build the flute per option A : its a bit more likely that the diatonic scale was used far before the renaissance period (renaissance period is only 500 years old)

Where is the gap in my thinking


jabhatta You correctly identified the following weakness in the hypothesis: just because the bone fragment was excavated at a Neanderthal campsite does not necessarily mean that it was made by Neanderthals to be used as a musical instrument.
You are also correct that answer choice A takes care of that weakness, as it implies that bone flutes were indeed made by Neanderthals to be used as a musical instrument.
However, the emphasis of this answer choice is on the word "only" - and the fact that no other musical instruments were made by Neanderthals does not strengthen the hypothesis at all.
This emphasis makes answer choice A much less likely to be the correct answer choice. I would only pick it if the other four answer choices are worse - a very unlikely scenario.
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