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28 Mar 2016, 08:59
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Hi all,
I'm fortunate to have gotten into Minnesota Carlson (on a full ride) and Dartmouth Tuck (with no scholarship). I know this comparison is quite unique, because I couldn't find anyone else who's ever chosen between these two schools on the forums, but there are a few reasons I'm still debating, most notably because I plan to live in Minnesota after graduation. Further information on myself:
I plan to pivot into investing / financial services (e.g. ideally a hedge fund in the long-term but more realistically investment banking in the short-term) after MBA. Because I'm planning on moving into what can be a lucrative career field, I'm more comfortable taking out the necessary $150k I'm looking at if I were to attend Tuck than I otherwise would be. That being said, it's still a lot of money and the fact that Carlson's network is stronger than Tuck's within Minnesota gives me pause.
Pros for Carlson:
- There's a good chance I'll move to Minnesota (my home state) after MBA.
- The Carlson network is stronger than Tuck's within Minnesota (but not as strong outside of Minnesota).
- Full ride means I'll entirely avoid the roughly $150k in student loan debt I'd need to take out for Tuck.
- The Minnesota-based investment banks recruit at Carlson (e.g. Piper Jaffray, Lazard's Minneapolis office, etc)
- There's no scientific evidence that going to a top ten school materially helps an individual in the long-run as opposed to going to a mid-tier school (although the couple of studies I read were focused on undergraduate and one for economics PhDs that was popularized in Malcolm Gladwell's book "David and Goliath").
Pros for Tuck:
- Very strong alumni network that is national/global (although seemingly concentrated in the Northeast / NYC, etc). This would seemingly give me the option value of having a network elsewhere if I ended up not moving to Minnesota after graduation or chose to move elsewhere in, say, 10 years. Also I should take into account that the Tuck network would be valuable even if I'm interacting with people who don't live in Minnesota (e.g. I could potentially get phone calls with Wall St. people who otherwise wouldn't take the call from some guy in Minnesota)
- Notable professors / alumni, etc.
- Top Ten school = prestige (which I don't care much about personally but acknowledge is valuable in job recruiting/networking, etc)
- Assumedly, most of my classmates will be very "on top of their stuff". (This was a big realization for me in undergrad- I was appreciative of having chosen a top school simply because my classmates pushed me to do even better. Although for all I know I would've done just as well at a mid-tier undergrad school).
- All the big banks recruit at Tuck (and I assume I could request to be placed in their Minneapolis or Chicago offices).
Obviously this is a personal decision but I'd be curious to hear anyone else's thoughts on the matter. For the most part it boils down to me weighing the benefits of Tuck against the $150k of student loans while knowing that I'll likely be earning roughly $225k all-in compensation in my first full year out of MBA (according to my research on Glassdoor and investment banking forums).
Thanks in advance for any thoughts or other things I should be thinking about!
I'm fortunate to have gotten into Minnesota Carlson (on a full ride) and Dartmouth Tuck (with no scholarship). I know this comparison is quite unique, because I couldn't find anyone else who's ever chosen between these two schools on the forums, but there are a few reasons I'm still debating, most notably because I plan to live in Minnesota after graduation. Further information on myself:
I plan to pivot into investing / financial services (e.g. ideally a hedge fund in the long-term but more realistically investment banking in the short-term) after MBA. Because I'm planning on moving into what can be a lucrative career field, I'm more comfortable taking out the necessary $150k I'm looking at if I were to attend Tuck than I otherwise would be. That being said, it's still a lot of money and the fact that Carlson's network is stronger than Tuck's within Minnesota gives me pause.
Pros for Carlson:
- There's a good chance I'll move to Minnesota (my home state) after MBA.
- The Carlson network is stronger than Tuck's within Minnesota (but not as strong outside of Minnesota).
- Full ride means I'll entirely avoid the roughly $150k in student loan debt I'd need to take out for Tuck.
- The Minnesota-based investment banks recruit at Carlson (e.g. Piper Jaffray, Lazard's Minneapolis office, etc)
- There's no scientific evidence that going to a top ten school materially helps an individual in the long-run as opposed to going to a mid-tier school (although the couple of studies I read were focused on undergraduate and one for economics PhDs that was popularized in Malcolm Gladwell's book "David and Goliath").
Pros for Tuck:
- Very strong alumni network that is national/global (although seemingly concentrated in the Northeast / NYC, etc). This would seemingly give me the option value of having a network elsewhere if I ended up not moving to Minnesota after graduation or chose to move elsewhere in, say, 10 years. Also I should take into account that the Tuck network would be valuable even if I'm interacting with people who don't live in Minnesota (e.g. I could potentially get phone calls with Wall St. people who otherwise wouldn't take the call from some guy in Minnesota)
- Notable professors / alumni, etc.
- Top Ten school = prestige (which I don't care much about personally but acknowledge is valuable in job recruiting/networking, etc)
- Assumedly, most of my classmates will be very "on top of their stuff". (This was a big realization for me in undergrad- I was appreciative of having chosen a top school simply because my classmates pushed me to do even better. Although for all I know I would've done just as well at a mid-tier undergrad school).
- All the big banks recruit at Tuck (and I assume I could request to be placed in their Minneapolis or Chicago offices).
Obviously this is a personal decision but I'd be curious to hear anyone else's thoughts on the matter. For the most part it boils down to me weighing the benefits of Tuck against the $150k of student loans while knowing that I'll likely be earning roughly $225k all-in compensation in my first full year out of MBA (according to my research on Glassdoor and investment banking forums).
Thanks in advance for any thoughts or other things I should be thinking about!
28 Mar 2016, 10:32
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You have done your research and it seems you feel you cannot get a meaningful advantage with Tuck, so it is a pretty clear choice to take Carlson Scholarship.
P.S. If you think you will make 200K+, what are you going to do with in Minnesota? Something you have not considered is that 3-5 years after graduation, once you get your footing, you will likely be compelled to start sharing some of your good luck to return the favor to the school (I don't mean it in a bad way - most of it will be a feeling of guilt, wanting to return the favor or clear a "debt", or wanting to contribute to the society - altruistic rather than the school guilting you in). Anyway, while a donation commitment is not the same as a loan, the cost in the long run will be similar.
P.S. If you think you will make 200K+, what are you going to do with in Minnesota? Something you have not considered is that 3-5 years after graduation, once you get your footing, you will likely be compelled to start sharing some of your good luck to return the favor to the school (I don't mean it in a bad way - most of it will be a feeling of guilt, wanting to return the favor or clear a "debt", or wanting to contribute to the society - altruistic rather than the school guilting you in). Anyway, while a donation commitment is not the same as a loan, the cost in the long run will be similar.
Flyte
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28 Mar 2016, 11:44
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MNGK2011
Full disclosure, I am a current Tuckie, but with that said, given your goals, Tuck is a fairly easy choice here. Please note, I would be saying this whether it was Tuck, Kellogg, Sloan, or Booth.
First, regarding banking recruiting, I think you'll be surprised at how difficult it will be to secure interviews and convert to offers for the few full-time IBD slots in Minnesota. They have the opportunity to recruit from Kellogg, Booth, Ross, or other top ten to top fifteen programs, Carlson is a harder sell. Also consider the roles that they are hiring for (FO vs MO or BO), in many cases firms draw a firm line between where they recruit for FO versus MO/BO.
Second, "There's no scientific evidence that going to a top ten school materially helps an individual in the long-run as opposed to going to a mid-tier school (although the couple of studies I read were focused on undergraduate and one for economics PhDs that was popularized in Malcolm Gladwell's book "David and Goliath")." Apologies for being blunt, but this does not apply at all to MBAs. Simply look at the Poets and Quants articles on the expected lifetime earnings of top MBAs versus second or third tier programs. This gulf in earnings is not shrinking, but is in fact growing.
Third, while the network is smaller for Tuck in the Twin Cities, it is the most responsive of any MBA program and the Twin Cities is full of Tuck alumni (primarily at MBB, Cargill, 3M, LoL, Mills, as well as a lot of the the hedge funds and PE). If your goal is to make it to a hedge fund or break into PE, simply put Carlson is most likely not going to get you there. Additionally, Tuck sent close to 20 people to Minneapolis last summer, so you may want to reach out and get some impressions from them.
I am happy to talk offline if you have any more questions or would like any further information.
I do see a lot of additional value in going to Tuck but I guess I figured everyone would already factor that in when reading my post (e.g. the academics, the caliber of student, the network, etc). Thanks for the thoughts on donations - I suppose that is true that in the long-run that the costs could be similar.
