University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake

Dear friends,
For your information....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26108597

-Snowden

I have one more question... I still didn't make up my mind about which university to choose if I get accepted to more of them.
I'm hesitating between HSG, Stockholm School of Economics and EDHEC. Which one would you choose? I really wanted to go to HSG before, it was my dream for some time, but I'm not that sure about this choice anymore.

Probably HSG, SSE and then edhec for me. But I guess I'm a bit biased in the fact that I have studied German for 2 years now and would be comfortable using it.

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It depends on what your expectation from the school is. Although I have been bashed by few members on the thread for expecting to get a job and benefit from the brand of HSG, I still hold my views.
From what I know, SSE is well known for research, if you want to continue towards a PhD then, this might be a good option.
if it is from a entry into a job in the fin world then i would suggest 1year programs in financial engineering in the USA.

-Snowden

Actually it was one of my biggest motivations as I have some basics of German and as evident from my nickname I am from Czech Republic and have quite good knowledge of German speaking countries (mainly Bavaria and Austria from travelling around) and wanted to upgrade my German to some decent level. However, as I heard how the schweizerdeutsch sounds, I am not sure that it's the best place to learn it.
So now I'm trying to choose the best school from an objective point of view. Of course, there is a financial aspect. Living in Switzerland is extremely costly and since I'm an EU student, I wouldn't have to pay any tuition at the SSE so the value for money is outstanding. Which opens to me other opportunities, for example CEMS without being stressed by financial aspects.
I have also been an exchange at EDHEC last semester having courses in French and I guess that speaking French and German would be pretty useful in Switzerland and might ease finding a job there.



I don't think I will do PhD, at the moment, my plan is to find a job in consulting or investment banking after the Msc and then try MBA at some top school probably in the USA. My final goal is to end up in private equity. I know that 1year program would be a great opportunity but it's beyond my financial options at the moment.

Snowden, I have one more question regarding financial aspect of studying in Switzerland. If accepted, I was planning to take my car to St. Gallen and I think it would make sense to do shopping in Austria which is fairly close and the prices are reasonable. Do you think it would make sense to live in Austria and just travel to school to St. Gallen? Are the rentals in Switzerland that high? Do you know anyone actually doing that?

If you're going to SSE I'd learn Swedish. SSE probably has the best placement within Sweden, and Sweden does have consulting/finance gigs. Bain, McKinsey, BCG, and ATKearney are some firms off the top of my head that operate in the Nordics. I've heard Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley mentioned. I'm currently studying in the Nordic region myself, and I think the idea of going to the leading business school there and doing well is a great way to land a good job. The competition doesn't seem as tough as hyper-competitive countries like the US, and if you're attending the best business school in a small country you've essentially got the best job opportunities within that region due to the fact most firms prefer to recruit locally. Entry-level positions generally tend to require knowledge of the local language as well, so there isn't as large of a pool of candidates you're competing with. Consider this; pretty much anyone in a reputable business program throughout all European business schools (and even American ones) can apply for London positions given they generally have a good grasp of English. This makes London-based positions probably the most competitive within Europe. But McKinsey Norway? How many people speak Norwegian? There's not going to be much competition outside of Norwegian business schools; maybe some Swedish and Danish students. And before the point gets brought up, yes, even if everyone in Scandinavia speaks English, most firms require/highly prefer you to speak the local language. Anyways, I'm off on a rant, but I think picking a reputable business school within a small, immigration-friendly, and well performing (economically) country is a pretty sound decision given you're willing to obtain the required language skills. I wouldn't go to SSE with the intention of landing a job in London; you have better prospects within Sweden, and while I'm sure it's possible, and if I was dead set on London I'd probably opt for a school within the UK.

Again, just my perspective as a BSc. student in one of the top schools in the Nordic region.

i dont own a car here but from what i have seen the parking fees and tolls are expensive.
i do know one person who lives in autria and drives down to college, but i dont know if it works out any cheaper.
rentals in a wg cost approximately 600-800 CHF depending on size, location etc but the real problem is to find one.

-Snowden

Hey guys!

I am planning on applying to st gallen this year but the thing is that the deadline is at the end of april (so, in 2 months) and I haven't done GMAT yet and I am worried cause my best score by now was 640. Though, I am still studying intensively, I don't know if I will make it to score 680 or more. Therefore, I wanted to ask you if anyone of you have the some problem or if anyone of you know how hard is it to get to the banking and finance program at st gallen? Does it make sense to apply with a score around 650?

I am russian and I speak several languages and have numerous experiences abroad like erasmus, AIESEC etc. Does it change anything?

I am so frustrated right now and because of the panic I can't concentrate on my gmat Would be thankful for any type of information or advice

hi ( I like Russians, not only because of my namesake ),
since the admission criteria is very clear and transparent there is little that can be done when it comes to GMAT/GRE. sorry to say and not to sound any arrogant but scoring below cutoff is a potential deal breaker ....yes there are points for extracurriculars but assuming you score 100% in it might not guarantee anything since the weight for it in the criteria is low...long story short ATB for cracking GMAT!!!

-Snowden.

ps: guys i dont know how the link on gmat got inserted in previous post ....i am not an advertiser..
-Snowden

does anybody know if Integrated Reasoning and AWA are considered by the universities, including St Gallen? On their website they inform only about overall Quant and Verbal score requirements. Does it mean they don't consider at all IR and AWA?

it's just that I was thinking that awa and ir take 1 hour and a lot of energy. of course it will result in a worse quant and verbal score....so maybe if it's not needed at all..

thanks

Hi Jennifer,

Why don't you spend more time prepping for the V & Q sections rather than essay and IR sections ? It's a good strategy - basically what I did as well.

The minimum req for st gallens is 680 this year - anything below and your application doesn't even qualify according to the admissions officer I talked to.

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Hi everyone, can I apply to HSG MS Finance as a Mechanical Engineering major? Are they strict about the Business/Econ rule?

i guys,

Just a quick question; with regards to the Motivation Letter, do you just answer the questions provided, or do you write a full essay with those points included, as you would do in any other uni?

its already answered in the thread i am sure .
ne way in short, even if u get in , you might have to dwal with supplementary courses..

-Snowden

Hi,

while I am of a rather positive Tier (fluent in German, EU passport), I just want to add my 2 cents since the discussion seems to be getting offhand.
The school is great, as long as you fulfill key criteria. This is a cultural thing, as in, UZurich, HEC Lausanne, German top-schools will give you 99% of the same experience.

First, being placed in the German speaking area(CH,DE,AT) and you're intending to learn German to a fluency level or you want the really fancy positions(IBD, Markets, consulting with Goldmans, JP, etc.

If you do not have an EU passport, getting placed in Switzerland is hard. very hard.

1. The only reasonable way is to learn English+German(C1)+X(basically, be from a BRIC country).
This is not the schools, but the administrations fault - they need to prove that you have some skill that all of Europe(ex Russia) doesn't have.
A good story is that you can open markets in BRIC. Only speaking English isn't, you just gotta deal with it that language is very important.

2. The only 'easy' way to get placed is to learn German(C1, or fluent) and have good grades. Some older managers in Switzerland and Germany only speak crap English. The less educated only speak German(e.g. a purchase manager). They want you to deal with them at some point, because companies hire you for a long-time. (After 5 years it's incredibly expensive to fire you anyway).
If you can't speak a communicable level of German, you won't be able to talk to senior management. Same for talking to clients. You're a biz student, so you don't have too many skills except client-facing stuff, whether its via email or phone. And this one needs language. Yes you can do a fancy DCF model, the Indian guy can do it too. In India. for 20% of your wage. FOr exampke, I worked for DB in Germany, and they have an underpaid Indian quant who creates spreadsheets/models for pricing derivatives/etc for them.
If you can't speak German on a good level, there's no way you will have a good enough level by the time you face clients/senior management(1-2yrs) in any way.

That's how the system works. There's no way around.

3. Germany is CH on easy mode. If you don't get placed in CH, this is due to the permits. For fulltime, Germany doesn't have this issue - fulltime, everybody earning above EUR43k per year(including bonuses) gets auto-permit, which is pretty much everyone.
Surprisingly, if you speak German, companies seem to be willing to issue you a permit for internship as well. It seems easier than in Switzerland, I know quite a few guys who learned German and then interned in Germany(or worked fulltime for that matter).

If you don't want to reach fluency level in German -> want to be placed in London


This is hard, for a single reason, and why snowden ticked out.

If you want to get into investment banking in Germany, but your school wasn't a top-tier/you didn't get hired/you studied astrophysics with perfect grades, it's simple, for your masters degree you go to St Gallen/LSE/WHU. It's easy to get admitted if you have good grades and GMAT and it has a ridicolously strong brand in Germany and London front office jobs.
So you get a mix of the top students from various German schools, who mostly have a IBD internship, or two. Most of them speak fluent English, German, and often a third language on a decent level.

This is your competition for the front office roles. It's job-hungry Germans who tend to be the in the top of the class. Now those guys also only care about the really good companies, so they dont care about 3rd tier shops, therefore the third tier shops also don't have any HSG alumni. As a result, you should only pick HSG for this if you think you can keep up with those guys(for getting placed to London).

If you dont want to reach fluency level in German and want to be placed in Germany/Switzerland.
From my PoV, close to impossible since you don't bring a hard skill(medicine, engineering, informatics).
A guy I know who studied Physics in Russia, got a job at one of the large insurers long before graduation. So if you do have a qualification of sorts, that makes this way easier.

Summary:
You want to get a good job in CH/DE, learn German or get a hard skill(engineering, medicine, etc). Then go to HSG. But if you want to stay, you need the language.
If you want to get a good job in UK, you're likely better of going to UK.

I can say as a 2nd year student at HSG, so many of the things snowden are saying are so true, it's not even funny....actually it is funny because of how on the dot he is. If you think you're going to come here and learn German: ahahahahahahahahahaha,

I want to add some of my own criticism: Professors who cannot teach, professors who just read what's on the slides, education which has just become knowing how to learn concepts of slides...Professors who are just NOT ACCESSIBLE

The curriculum plan is the funniest, WHO WRITES A MASTER THESIS in 2nd and 3rd SEMESTER? You won't even know any professors by then!!! And plus when you try to meet them, they all give you the cold shoulder. You have the most inaccessible professors here which is an insult as a Master's student. I can go on and on, but I'll stop....

And what Snowden said about Germany being CH on easy mode, yes COMPLETELY TRUE.

Last thing:
Some of you pointed out the laws, I know the laws very well. The laws actually practically make it REALLY EASY for graduates to get a work permit....REALLY REALLY EASY....the problem isn't the law, the problem is HR departments, racist job ad's (such as ones that say Native-German language required), but mainly HR departments....HR departments don't know the law, and even when they do, they don't want to do ****...they'd rather take a CH or EU resident and not deal with any 'hassle', even though there isn't any.

At a recruiting event from Credit Suisse once, I was told that I should try applying for Nestlé as they might be more open to non-EU people. Yes, this is a recruiting event for trading/banking/finance. Oh, and you don't want to even hear about the kinds of work contracts some non-EU students get, getting paid way below Swiss standards but having employers label their contract as an 'internship' to skirt by. You might be so excited when you get some kind of a 'internship' offer because the pay in francs is much higher than what you're used to in your home country....but then you realize the people at McDonald's make more than you.

The best thing is, Career Services has absolutely NO CLUE about how to deal with non-EU students. They just smile and give you tips you can find on the first link if you type "how to make a nice resume" on google. On top of that, the career portal where you upload your CV has so many bugs and issues....Yes, for a top-tier European university, the career portal has bugs/issues and things that are either not translated at all or translated incorrectly into English even when you're using the English part of the service.

I wanted to actually meet with Uni admin and go over with them in detail the endless list of problems I believe exist at the university, but I think I gave up because of their apathetic attitude. They would focus rather solely on how to boost their ranking instead of actually fixing the huge issues that exist in the MBF program. Actually, rumor has it that one of the professors specifically focus on this point alone, on how to improve rankings. Take a note on how the MBF program still refers to their 2012 ranking of #5 instead of 2013 ranking of #10: they're obsessed with it.