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Ivan91
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 03 Aug 2014, 14:58
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Whats up guys, any new admits ?
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Apollon
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 23 Oct 2014, 23:31
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Hey guys,

Thanks for the information provided!

Since the program came to be somewhat controversial in respect of placement for non-eu/german speaking people, I was wondering if someone has insight on the PhD in Finance prospects following the masters?

I am aware the economics program is more appropriate for PhD, however as a hedging strategy I have been giving some thought on this option as well.

Best regards,
Stefan.
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frenchy1979
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 27 Dec 2014, 08:19
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Hi guys,

I am new here :) French citizen with north-african roots.
I have just been accepted in the MBA 2015-17 Part-time program.

About difficulties to find a job in Switzerland :
Snowden! you've forgotten one important thing : French speakers...

If you have a good command of french then you can target the Geneva-Lausanne area. Bye bye the Goethe language..
French speaking Switzerland = 25% Swiss economy

Well this is a nice alternative for non-EU citizens allergic to german.

Having said that I am willing to learn german :)
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Ivan91
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 27 Dec 2014, 08:46
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If you know French, doesnt it make more sense to just do MBA or MSc in Geneva (Univ of Geneva or IMD) and look for a job there instead of studying in St.Gallen or Zurich and afterwards look for a job in the french speaking area :)
With this being said, congrats on your acceptance. I was set to apply last year to St Gallen`s MBF but decided to postpone a year, clear German C2 at Goethe Institut (exam in February, fingers crossed) and apply for the 2015 intake :)
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Ivan91
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 27 Dec 2014, 08:46
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If you know French, doesnt it make more sense to just do MBA or MSc in Geneva (Univ of Geneva or IMD) and look for a job there instead of studying in St.Gallen or Zurich and afterwards look for a job in the french speaking area :)
With this being said, congrats on your acceptance. I was set to apply last year to St Gallen`s MBF but decided to postpone a year, clear German C2 at Goethe Institut (exam in February, fingers crossed) and apply for the 2015 intake :)
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frenchy1979
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 27 Dec 2014, 15:52
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For many reasons I have chosen HSG instead of IMD :
- Challenge another culture. Select a MBA in his area is the easiest solution but you miss an opportunity to widen your international skills.
- I work in the Zurich area so for me HSG is perfect for a part-time tuition.

Now my point was to decrease his concern about German language. Please know that in Geneva they welcome MBA HSG even without speaking french. It is really another face of Switzerland.

FYI I know a lot of big international companies here around Zurich, I can tell you there is no German speaking in the offices, meetings, emails or whatever...
Learning German is first useful to develop my social and family life here.

Posted from my mobile device
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Ivan91
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 27 Dec 2014, 16:37
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frenchy1979
For many reasons I have chosen HSG instead of IMD :
- Challenge another culture. Select a MBA in his area is the easiest solution but you miss an opportunity to widen your international skills.
- I work in the Zurich area so for me HSG is perfect for a part-time tuition.

Now my point was to decrease his concern about German language. Please know that in Geneva they welcome MBA HSG even without speaking french. It is really another face of Switzerland.

FYI I know a lot of big international companies here around Zurich, I can tell you there is no German speaking in the offices, meetings, emails or whatever...
Learning German is first useful to develop my social and family life here.

Posted from my mobile device
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One can make the argument that Swiss German would be more helpful in building a social life in Zurich :)
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Automedon
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 15 Jan 2015, 09:14
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I'm set to apply for the St Gallen in not too long, probably after I've done my gmat (fingers crossed).

Anyone else considering the MBF, even with the Swiss Franc going nuts?
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JamesM2
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 15 Jan 2015, 10:06
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Haha I guess if you consider macroevents you are not going anywhere (terror in France, Britxit in UK, Catalonia in Spain). CHF will probably be lower by the time you pay your fees don't worry
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 25 Jan 2015, 06:52
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does anybody has information on the MEcon Master at HSG? Is a GMAT of 650 sufficient to break into the program?
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Automedon
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 26 Jan 2015, 07:45
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Blacchollywood
does anybody has information on the MEcon Master at HSG? Is a GMAT of 650 sufficient to break into the program?
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On the web page it isn't specified if they even want a GMAT, given their ridiculous attention to detail in all other things I would assume not. If you're a foreigner the 25% quota for foreigners applies. In any case sending an e-mail requesting information is probably your best bet.
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 26 Jan 2015, 07:56
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Oddly enough I got some contradictory information when I applied for their MaccFin. Apparently, they do require a 680 GMAT for any Master, but the specific page of the program did not mention any GMAT requirement and the general page stated a 650 GMAT score for foreigners. You better send them an email to be sure.
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 27 Jan 2015, 00:07
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Check out this Brochure :
https://www.unisg.ch/~/media/internet/co ... rammes.pdf
Here it is shown that every masters program, except for the MBF, requires a score of 650+ be submitted.
Still I am not sure how lenient they might be in case the whole "application package" is otherwise perfect.
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 07 Mar 2015, 10:58
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Hey snowden, I plan to go for MBF, as I don't want to extend my visa after studies, I hear that the curriculum for the MBF is really remarkable at HSG, I just wanted to know that with 160q, 152v, would it be plausible to apply for the MBF program. My aggregate in Delhi University has been 71%.

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Ivan91
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 08 Mar 2015, 16:52
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Ivan91
Check out this Brochure :
https://www.unisg.ch/~/media/internet/co ... rammes.pdf
Here it is shown that every masters program, except for the MBF, requires a score of 650+ be submitted.
Still I am not sure how lenient they might be in case the whole "application package" is otherwise perfect.
Show more


Evidence of a GMAT (Graduate Management Admission Test) with a minimum score of 680 points or a GRE (Graduate Record Examination) with a minimum score of 160 in the “Quantitative Reasoning” part of the test.

https://www.unisg.ch/~/media/internet/co ... zul_en.pdf

Lucky you :)
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 09 Mar 2015, 21:33
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stefanjovanovski
Hey guys,

Thanks for the information provided!

Since the program came to be somewhat controversial in respect of placement for non-eu/german speaking people, I was wondering if someone has insight on the PhD in Finance prospects following the masters?

I am aware the economics program is more appropriate for PhD, however as a hedging strategy I have been giving some thought on this option as well.

Best regards,
Stefan.
Show more

The PhD in Finance program is supposedly good at placing into industry and PhDs as a whole are more respected in the German-speaking (according to hearsay on the internet anyways, dig up some old posts in EJMR). Also, learning German would be a pretty smart move if you're going to stay there for seven years to do a masters and a PhD. It'll open a lot more doors.

Anyways, I wouldn't take the negative information here with too much weight. I've seen differing opinions elsewhere. Here's some from WSO.

Quote:
Seriously, if you aren't as talented as a piece of wood you will have plenty of opportunities breaking into the industry coming from HSG. HSG has an extremely strong brand name in the region (up there with Mannheim and WHU) and there are HSG grads everywhere. Just put in some real effort and try to learn the language as good as possible. Frankfurt is getting a more and more international work place and I've met plenty of people in the finance industry recently who don't speak perfect German, but they are able to communicate effectively and that's basically what it's all about. Work documents are usually drafted in English and only a few selected companies require their documentation to be in German. This might change when working in MM banking / PE with "Mittelstand" companies, but in large cap banking you will get along with solid German (doesn't have to be perfect). Same for trading roles.

Only people who always stick to their group of foreigners and don't engage with German speaking students / recruiters and don't learn the language will have serious trouble finding a job in Frankfurt or Zurich. Furthermore, in case that you don't want to learn the langauge or have no interest in a career in the DACH region, you are still able to leverage the HSG brand name for internships and grad roles in London. Plenty of HSG grads in the city as well.

I haven't read the whole post, but recruiting from HSG is definitely not that hard.
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Quote:
From my own experience (as a native English speaker with little or no German and no other European languages), it is still possible to get internship/grad position in Zurich after completing the MBF program.

True, many positions require fluency in German (especially if you will be client facing) however about 1/15 - 1/20 of front office positions do not (mostly in Asset Management, research, or quant roles). Also, middle & back office roles tend to only ask for fluency in English.

Additionally, the BB banks in Zurich don't follow the Milkround approach as in London. You can apply for grad/intern positions all year round (usually starting within 1 month of applying), they probably post up 2/3 new positions every day, which takes a lot of the pressure off.
That said, London teams also come round in October, all the BBs except BAML for some reason, and they are primarily offering the front office IB or S&T roles, some AM and PWM.

Personally, I didn't have much luck with the London teams - applied to maybe 7 BBs got 1st round for 2 and then got rejected, got to the final of one MM but got rejected. However I only applied to 4 positions in Zurich, got interviews for all of them and accepted a quant/research position at a BB before completing the other 3 (I think I was going to get 1 other offer).

I think you just need to look a bit harder for the roles that only require English, but once you find them the St. Gallen brand really carries you.
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I can't help but note that some of the detractors seem to have pretty poor English writing skills. I imagine that combined with a lack of German fluency does little favors. A lack of European language skills on top of poor English is not going to get you very far in Europe.
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gunindersingh09
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 21 Aug 2015, 14:31
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snowden
The Bad
Let me be clearly as objective as possible. For my analysis I assume the whole and sole objective of all applicants to this program is to start a career in finance with a great workplace. I believe everything is just preparation towards this objective. Be it slogging for GMAT/GRE/TOEFL , working on the coursework once admitted, adjusting to a new place and so on. If you disagree and believe your only objective is learning, well, I can only say a decision to be at HSG(University of St Gallen) is not a bad choice after all and you might as well stop reading the following post.
Now I divide the student population (Since I don’t have any info about the applicant population)into 4 major categories. See in which category you fall into and then read further. Hopefully it saves you much time 
1] Swiss Citizen – Speaks German, French, English etc
2] German Citizen – Speaks German, English etc
3] EU-8 Citizen – Speaks German, English + Native language (ex Spanish, French, Italian etc)
4] European Citizen (Schengen + Russia + UK) – Speaks German, English + Native language
5] European Citizen (Schengen + Russia + UK) – Does not speak German, Speaks English and Native language
6] Non European – from developed countries ( USA, Australia, Canada, Singapore, Japan, HK) Only English
25] Non European – from developing countries speaks german and English
100..] Non European – from developing countries speaks only English

Category 1 : Congratulations, you are at the right place. Go ahead and apply, the world sorry Switzerland is your Oyster.

Category 2 : The majority of the students belong to this category. So you are never out of place. You get interviews, workshops etc on par with the Swiss, no hassles at all.

Category 3 : You are at a competitive advantage compared to you compatriots but not so much here. Looking for opportunities in Switzerland is tough but then given the clout of the alumni network you can often find opportunities in the country of your origin

Category 4 : Similar reasoning as category 3

Category 5 : When compared to your fellow citizens in category 3 you are infinitely disadvantaged. But then the degree is valuable and focusing on the home geography advantage is a good bet.

Category 6 : Seriously? You left the Berkleys, NY sterns, Rotmans of the world to be here full-time? Well then, seems like you want adventure and you don’t care much about the career point of view. Also coming from a society with higher social security, why should you? Cant tell you much..on your own..

Category 25 : Ha, so you spotted that the sequence was wrong? But then it was intentional. You will now see why. “Ich gratuliere dich uber ihre deutsch.” You know what I am talking about. You are a rare breed, you know german and English and possible an important native language( Arabic, Cantonese, Mandarin). There are few very very niche positions available. But the problem is they are only few and far far far between. Also the hassles of work permit are only growing more and more harsher. I know its tough enough to learn a difficult language devoid of beautiful little things called the vowels and even more so when you come to know that nationality does play its part.
The most important point is that you may know german as a language but not the culture( I am making a guess about the cultural aspect but lets go with it) Most jobs are front ending ones. Unlike the backoffice operations kind of roles in your home countries(making a lot of assumptions here, pardon me ) . Front offices rely more on the so called ‘goodness of fit’ rather than raw talent or skill. They want to know if the team as a whole likes you as a person and feels rather comfortable with you ( no regards to how you feel about them  ) This, you might term it subtle racism or strong nationalism or whatever. But this is the reality. There is no changing it. European organisational structure is very close knit unlike the American structure. The close knit nature is almost incestuous and thick. All in all its your call.

Category 100] If brevity is wit, I have four words “ JUST DON’T DO IT”
Seriously speaking I empathise with this group the most. No interviews, no workshops either. Job fair meetings with all companies last 30 seconds max. Here is how it goes:

C100 guy : Hello, I am C100
Xyz co : Hello Ich heisse xyz, ghjkdlk dlfkjakjdwrt gflkjsbnxcdljfjt :shock:
C100 guy : Sorry, I don’t speak German :oops:
Xyz co : Oh, Sorry. We are looking fur die persons who is a speaks die Deutsch
C100 guy : Are there any positions in any other Geographies?
Xyz co : Yess,yess of course. Pleasse go to die internet,you are finding all die coutriess and apply. :wink:
C100 guy : thank you. Nice talking to you.
Xyz co : Auf wieder..err. good day! Here take this candy :twisted:

Once again the companies recruiting here are mostly for positions which are front ending or lead to front ending roles. Talent here is ubiquitous. What can you bring to the table which is not already there? I can agree if you tell me you are a gold medallist in the math Olympiad. But then, I come back at you why the heck did you not go to USA or other english speaking dev countries? where meritocracy and yearning for profit rules above all forms of pride and prejudice.
If your plan to circumvent this situation is to learn german on the side…I see that it is futile. The course work is heavy. People would be happy to pass this course in the designated 3 semesters. Which is, trust me, is quite a big achievement. And of course the course is flexible, giving you 4 years or 8 semesters to pass it, but then coming from a developing country Switzerland is not a very affordable place to be. It is ridiculously expensive and not value for money. It is just expensive for expensive sake. Converting your very hard earned undervalued currency into the most overvalued currency (refer big Mac Index)to spend on inflated prices is not smart. Look elsewhere.
I know the issues for category 100 are many, and I would take questions later but in summary I would suggest as mentioned before , don’t do it. Not worth it AT ALL

Disclaimer : All the statements made above are true. If you feel otherwise. Please feel free to do your own research. I am sure our results will not differ.
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gunindersingh09
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 21 Aug 2015, 14:32
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Thankyou for such valuable insight snowsen
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gunindersingh09
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 21 Aug 2015, 14:32
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Than you for such valuable insight snowden
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rehankhan01
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 04 Nov 2015, 09:00
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snowden

The ugly truth :


From my posts titles the good and the bad you should have sort of expected this already.
If you had read my previous above mentioned posts you would ponder over these questions atleast at the back of your mind. Let me summarise those into this one below:
1] Since most (80%+) of the placements happen within Switzerland which require atleast german (Schweiser Deutsch even better) then why do so many international students throng this institute?
2] The Swiss government by law allows for only 25% foreign students enrolled in the university then how come there are so many international students?
3] The placement brochure and at several places in the official website the statement about placement says that about 100% of the students get placed within 3 months of graduating, so where is the problem?
4] It was ranked 5 in 2012 by FT..ok it dropped to 10 in 2013 but it aint so bad afterall , whats the fuss?

I will attempt to answer these questions not sequentially but in the form of a lengthy argument. Since I feel these questions are inter-related to each other. Please take the data, and the arguments posed by me and critically analyse them and make your decision after all the decision maker and the owner is YOU.

Firstly the answer in brief for all questions is one word “RANKINGS”. It is this end that is being chased at the cost of almost everything. One good thing is the chase for rankings can yield change within an institution which by nature can be good. But then the changes only at the superficial level without change happening at the systemic level will yield only short term results.

Let me zoom back in time when HSG was no where in the rankings that’s about a decade ago. I mean across any course or metric. Then the so called Bologna process happened. The Germanic setting and lack of internationality seriously weakened the University’s ranking prospects. Internationalisation was impossible per se because of the 25% ceiling. This needed drastic steps. The Swiss universities needed a place under the ranking sun. No matter what. There was a key weakness that was exploited by these universities in general and University of St gallen has been a champion at it.

“The rankings are given per course and not for the university as a whole.”
So, simple solution. Open few courses to international students with percentage greater than 25% and close doors on certain obscure courses so that the overall % of international students remains sweetly below 25%. This is a fact.

So, % of international students in the MBF program
2011 40%,
in 2012 47%
in 2013 it is as high as 84%!
Internationality check. Rankings here we come.

There are two reasons why St gallen ranks higher than it probably should. One is value for money. The fees is low about 1000 CHF in 2011, 2000 CHF in 2012 and expected to be 3000+CHF in 2014 (all amounts per semester). So you have a lower base no matter what the salary might turn out to be. What is ignored by most students is the super high cost of living. My favourite comparison is the doner kebab. In neighbouring germany a doner costs 3 euros in a decent place. Here it is a ridiculous 15 CHF or about 12 euros. So it is 4 times as expensive as expensive germany! This is not taken into consideration in the rankings.

Second is placement success. It has apparently never gone below 100% according to the official communication channels of the university. This is sadly a very very big lie. Here is my argument. A 23-25 year old graduate with a degree gets no job through the university’s career services or in the open Swiss job market. He/she goes back to his/her native country and finds one within 90 days. It is possible 100% of the time, the reason is that the admission criteria is biased, class average GMAT is 710! So these blokes(female for bloke?) are smart and will find a job inspite of the course not because of it. The ugly part is the program shouts from the roof tops that it is their achievement.

Ok you don’t buy my argument so far. Good. I will seal my case with the points below.

This is a pre-experience masters. Which means that majority of the program participants have no prior relevant experience. This means that internship plays a major part in getting placements. In fact several top notch I banks and private equity firms and also consulting firms often prefer this route instead of giving spot offers or so called lateral hiring. It makes sense as lateral hiring happens only in post experience masters. So internships are the absolute key to crack any job market, in Switzerland more so. So here are the numbers.

Percentage of students with internships as part of the masters program:
2011 – 63%
2012 – 57%
2013 – 58%

Here is my knockout punch the sum of percentage of international students and percentage of students with internships is ~ 100%!!! This is it. Take a deep breath, Let it sink in.
( 2013 data is again the same fraudulent reporting. 3 months of break for international students,so most go home to save money. They do some reports and other stuff for small start-ups in their home country. This is later reported as an internship by the career services folks). It simply means international students are on their own. No value add from the university in terms of finding internships.

In summary, the University and the program specifically needs international students only to spice up their rankings and break into the league of big boys of the west. To lure them, the communication and the sales pitch of the program starts from the rankings and most international students fall for it. This combined with no alternative source of information in English language forums makes the decision not so well informed. Finally the cost factor plays a huge role. Admittedly this place is way cheaper than HEC paris. But then these two are worlds or even universes apart. The sick thing is that they buy these rank increasing factors ( poor international students) at a negative price, i.e. the students self finance their doom ( tongue in cheek).

The benefits brought in by these poor international students is reaped by the German/Swiss students by means of earning a degree from a better ranked university , all thanks(but no thanks, seriously, this is my fatherland what do you expect ? :twisted: ) to the international students :cry: .

Disclaimer : All numbers are based on FT data for the MBF program. Can be extended to other so called ‘international’ programs as well. The most funny is the SIM (strategy and international management)program. It is ranked number 1. It has like 1 and only 1 person from every country…wtf.. :!:
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Hello Snowden,

Thanks for all of your effort for the insight and your story has a immense value for revealing truth. We all do give enormous efforts till the last breadth to reach a successful career. I'm one of the follower of the path. Since i'm struggling to join St. Gellen for Master In Banking and Finance but now i have lost my hope to pay attention on it and decided to leave finanlly.

Anyway, Please give some information about Stockholm business school, offering Masters in Finance. You know i have keen connection with Finance to make my career.

Best
Rehan.
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