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snowden
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 03 Jan 2014, 11:45
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AbhiJ
Snowden,

Only if other school students are as candid as you are. Truthfuless has become a rarity in this dan age.
Having said that just to put a positive spin on this thread want to let you know that situation is UK and Canada is NOT that much better either, especially for those who are looking for Finance jobs.

For example non-EU LBS MBA grads are unable to find sponsors in UK and are working in Netherlands.
Similarly Rotman MBA grads are not able to find jobs even 6 months after graduation. In both Rotman and LBS the total debt is around 140k USD.
Compared that 4k CHF/USD this program is dirt cheap. So hopefully there is a silver lining in the cloud :). Even 1 year Indian MBA programs cost north of 40k USD.

Now may you can enlighten on the cost of living in Switzerland ?
I can see why some Asian grads want to study here. Maybe as a stepping stone to PhD this can be a good program.
Show more

Dear AbhiJ. First things first, let me clarify that this thread is for MBF and not the HSG MBA program. It is not fair to compare Rotman, LBS MBA fee with this MA program. ( if you had read the course description in detail you will see that MBF is no Masters of science but a Masters of Arts degree)

So the right comparison atleast for fees is the relevant courses. for example you can see that the HSG MBA is not cheap ,it costs 85,000 USD!!!
the HSG mba is a Joke. I have been to the "campus" to attend a few seminars. the HSG MBA "campus" is 2 floors in a 4 floor building. the other 2 floors have other tenants.
It is like a private tuition center, it is puny and tiny given the batch size. Finally they have nothing to do with the HSG University campus. they have their seperate "library" ( 4 cupboards) , cafeteria (1 coffee maschine, 1 vending machine). It is almost a parody of a Bschool. :D

Coming to Living costs, Switzerland is expensive. Refer the big Mac index. CHF is the most overvalued currency. I guess you are from india from your post. Incidently Indian rupe is the most undervalued currency. Not being racist but fact is , CH is expensive for Europeans for you it will be robbery :( unless of course you are like kutrapali ( from big bang theory) and are vastly weathy ;) !!!

-Snowden
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 03 Jan 2014, 11:48
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NickDakis
Hi,

Could someone please inform me on the admission deadlines?

Thanks
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dude not being rude but please do your research :evil:

ok , usually the deadline is April 30th :-D

-Snowden
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 03 Jan 2014, 11:53
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a03b
Hi everyone, I have a question about this program. On its brochure, it says "Business or Economics undergrad major" is a requirement. Can't Engineering students apply to the program? Thanks.

Posted from my mobile device
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Hey,

if you dont have relevant undergrad, you may still apply. but then you will be assigned to do what is termed as supplementary courses. these are basically undergrad courses. please read this in great detail. many asian students drop out of the program because the supplementary load added on to then is almost equal to the degree load. for ex some were assigned 60 credits as supplementary while the MBF program itself needs 90. so in total they has to do 150!!! it will take an average person atleast 4 years :(
https://www.unisg.ch/en/Studium/Zulassun ... leistungen

i re-iterate once again, read the link carefully and if in doubt contact admissions office for further clarifications.

-Snowden
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 03 Jan 2014, 12:18
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Snowden you have a wicked sense of humour :).
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AbhiJ
Snowden you have a wicked sense of humour :).
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I thought it was called speaking the truth!! ;)

-Snowden
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 03 Jan 2014, 13:06
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snowden
a03b
Hi everyone, I have a question about this program. On its brochure, it says "Business or Economics undergrad major" is a requirement. Can't Engineering students apply to the program? Thanks.

Posted from my mobile device


Hey,

if you dont have relevant undergrad, you may still apply. but then you will be assigned to do what is termed as supplementary courses. these are basically undergrad courses. please read this in great detail. many asian students drop out of the program because the supplementary load added on to then is almost equal to the degree load. for ex some were assigned 60 credits as supplementary while the MBF program itself needs 90. so in total they has to do 150!!! it will take an average person atleast 4 years :(
https://www.unisg.ch/en/Studium/Zulassun ... leistungen

i re-iterate once again, read the link carefully and if in doubt contact admissions office for further clarifications.

-Snowden
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Wow, this was great help snowden! I'll be sure to keep this in mind.
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 06 Jan 2014, 03:43
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Hi Snowden,
Thank you so much for your thread - has really made me reconsider HSG as an option.
I am an Australian non-eu currently working in London most interested in the SIM program but am considering applying for MBF/MIA too.
I have 2+ years work experience at KPMG and an Australian management consultancy firm as well as a number of other internships. Really keen to head back to uni though and pick up some language skills too. Working hard isn't an issue.
Why HSG: Looking to study in a foreign speaking country as I think this will be a valuable life experience for me (while I dont think it will be a revolutionary change as you pointed out earlier - I do see value in broadening horizons). Living in switzerland would be interesting. The next step to this would be working for a year or 2 in a foreign speaking country before continuing my career in aus/us. (at which point my work experience will be most relevant to my job - not where I studied my masters). So not too worried about long-term visa issues in switzerland/eu.
Preference for german (which I have already started learning) comes from the affordable tuition fees and strong economy/quality of life in DACH region.
Naturally considering Mannheim, WU and HSG I plan to work for a top tier consulting firm in frankfrut, vienna or zurich and thought that HSG would be the best school for that. You mention a lot about restrictions for working in switzerland but I would be equally happy with working in germany/austria. Had an interview with London Bain earlier this year so I know I am already at the level I need to be (just need the language now).
Also considering NHH - this would be a really great experience (and affordable given there is no tuition fees) - and CBS if I can get a scholarship. Obviously however work opportunities are restricted in these countries given language barriers for Norwegian and Danish and would still probably look at working in DACH region.. (I plan to continue learning german but would be much more difficult to get to a C1 level in that time).
Would really value your opinion on options because you've clearly put a lot of thought into this and are well informed on the matter :!:
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 07 Jan 2014, 00:37
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If you can get into SIM, I'm really curious why you'd settle for NHH or CBS as second choices. They're good, don't get me wrong, but they're not that good. Speaking from a CBS perspective, it's probably the best choice to get an MBB or BB IB job in Denmark, but outside of Denmark its influence wanes. Companies like to recruit locally, so it makes sense; unless you've got an international brand, it's hard to penetrate a foreign country's job market. It has some ties with London, however, as London seems to love recruiting from everywhere. That being said, even if you decide against SIM, I'd choose at least SSE if you're particular on Scandinavia. Otherwise, HEC, RSM, IE, LSE, etc., all good. As for the language issue, if you're willing to pursue Norwegian/Swedish/Danish in two years, are intelligent enough to make it into SIM, and can put in the effort (a solid hour a day or so, not just attending language classes) I'm sure you could pick any of them up. It's not like you're trying to learn Mandarin or something. Finally, SIM boasts a 93% international students rate. The class size was 39 last year. The median salary was something like 100,000 USD. Intership placement rate is 100%. Now, I'm sure a heavy chunk of that 'international student rate' comes from Germany. Even then, I'd be surprised if the situation for non-EU SIM students is as bleak as the MBF situation. It's Financial Time's #1 MIM programme, after all, and for quite a few years in a row. Of course, someone attending the programme would be a much better source. I'm just making conjectures.
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 07 Jan 2014, 01:17
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Thanks Mooncakes - I definitely see where you are coming from.
Would just like to stress the non-eu factor though meaning that options like SSE/HEC/RSM universities aren't really going to be value for money from my perspective. As competitive as I may think I am, full scholarships for those universities in particular are few and far between. (I was planning on applying to SSE and try anyway but the GMAT deadline is too soon).
Top US/UK uni's are the only ones that I genuinely believe are worth forking out the tuition fees for but as I mentioned on a personal level I would like to study in a foreign speaking country for a few reasons.
This pretty much leaves me with DACH, norway and finland (which doesnt appeal to me). Issue is if I cant even get a working visa after HSG then is it worthwhile or would I be better off to just focus on Mannheim/WU/NHH which are EU.
Im not worried about not getting a job but I am worried about not getting a job in a german speaking country..
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 07 Jan 2014, 14:39
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lgroen
Hi Snowden,
Thank you so much for your thread - has really made me reconsider HSG as an option.
I am an Australian non-eu currently working in London most interested in the SIM program but am considering applying for MBF/MIA too.
I have 2+ years work experience at KPMG and an Australian management consultancy firm as well as a number of other internships. Really keen to head back to uni though and pick up some language skills too. Working hard isn't an issue.
Why HSG: Looking to study in a foreign speaking country as I think this will be a valuable life experience for me (while I dont think it will be a revolutionary change as you pointed out earlier - I do see value in broadening horizons). Living in switzerland would be interesting. The next step to this would be working for a year or 2 in a foreign speaking country before continuing my career in aus/us. (at which point my work experience will be most relevant to my job - not where I studied my masters). So not too worried about long-term visa issues in switzerland/eu.
Preference for german (which I have already started learning) comes from the affordable tuition fees and strong economy/quality of life in DACH region.
Naturally considering Mannheim, WU and HSG I plan to work for a top tier consulting firm in frankfrut, vienna or zurich and thought that HSG would be the best school for that. You mention a lot about restrictions for working in switzerland but I would be equally happy with working in germany/austria. Had an interview with London Bain earlier this year so I know I am already at the level I need to be (just need the language now).
Also considering NHH - this would be a really great experience (and affordable given there is no tuition fees) - and CBS if I can get a scholarship. Obviously however work opportunities are restricted in these countries given language barriers for Norwegian and Danish and would still probably look at working in DACH region.. (I plan to continue learning german but would be much more difficult to get to a C1 level in that time).
Would really value your opinion on options because you've clearly put a lot of thought into this and are well informed on the matter :!:
Show more

your target schools have diversity which i am unable to comprehend. Sticking to stuff i know, SIM and MBF courses are oceans apart. SIM has more group work based management courses. MBF is mostly quantitative ( this is an understatement, heck its math all the way).
But looking at your situation, i dont see any roadblocks to you other than 2 main things
1] Job market scenario ( very big unknown)
2] Work permit scenario

i would say since you are open to working in germany too means that your opportunity set does go up and given the relatively lenient workpermit scene in germany means your goals can be met. Your profile seems killer, i wish you all the best!

-Snowden
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Cheers mate. Last thing - Do you know anything about applying for a work permit in eu (germany/austria) having studied in switzerland? Are there any drawbacks or is it just working in switzerland thats difficult and going to eu is fine?
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 08 Jan 2014, 05:41
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lgroen
Cheers mate. Last thing - Do you know anything about applying for a work permit in eu (germany/austria) having studied in switzerland? Are there any drawbacks or is it just working in switzerland thats difficult and going to eu is fine?
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Dont know much about Austria so cant comment. But once you have a confirmed job offer in Germany, getting a work permit should not be an issue.

-Snowden
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 08 Jan 2014, 06:27
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mooncakes
If you can get into SIM, I'm really curious why you'd settle for NHH or CBS as second choices. They're good, don't get me wrong, but they're not that good. Speaking from a CBS perspective, it's probably the best choice to get an MBB or BB IB job in Denmark, but outside of Denmark its influence wanes. Companies like to recruit locally, so it makes sense; unless you've got an international brand, it's hard to penetrate a foreign country's job market. It has some ties with London, however, as London seems to love recruiting from everywhere. That being said, even if you decide against SIM, I'd choose at least SSE if you're particular on Scandinavia. Otherwise, HEC, RSM, IE, LSE, etc., all good. As for the language issue, if you're willing to pursue Norwegian/Swedish/Danish in two years, are intelligent enough to make it into SIM, and can put in the effort (a solid hour a day or so, not just attending language classes) I'm sure you could pick any of them up. It's not like you're trying to learn Mandarin or something. Finally, SIM boasts a 93% international students rate. The class size was 39 last year. The median salary was something like 100,000 USD. Intership placement rate is 100%. Now, I'm sure a heavy chunk of that 'international student rate' comes from Germany. Even then, I'd be surprised if the situation for non-EU SIM students is as bleak as the MBF situation. It's Financial Time's #1 MIM programme, after all, and for quite a few years in a row. Of course, someone attending the programme would be a much better source. I'm just making conjectures.
Show more

Hi Mooncakes,
I really dont like to do this but i feel some moral obligations to set the record straight. :oops:

Although I am in MBF there are certain courses called 'contextual studies' which are common across masters. In one such course i interacted with a few SIM students. In short I would say, their situation is hardly any different from the ones in MBF. In a way MBF students are marginally better off since they have 'hard skills' like derivative modeling, quantitative asset management, matlab, vba, stata etc whereas the SIM students have to contend with very generic 'soft-skill' toolset. Of course the course is rated pretty high. I have met their alumns in one of the consulting club parties. But as usual, as you have already pointed out, the bulk of the 'foreign' students are from Germany. the non-eu students did have internships but they were obtained through their own efforts and contacts for ex getting back to home country and interning in IT services etc :|

Long story short, SIM is more 'pro-ranking' modeled course rather than 'pro-student'...or atleast safe to say non-EU student.

-Snowden
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 09 Jan 2014, 18:44
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snowden
mooncakes
If you can get into SIM, I'm really curious why you'd settle for NHH or CBS as second choices. They're good, don't get me wrong, but they're not that good. Speaking from a CBS perspective, it's probably the best choice to get an MBB or BB IB job in Denmark, but outside of Denmark its influence wanes. Companies like to recruit locally, so it makes sense; unless you've got an international brand, it's hard to penetrate a foreign country's job market. It has some ties with London, however, as London seems to love recruiting from everywhere. That being said, even if you decide against SIM, I'd choose at least SSE if you're particular on Scandinavia. Otherwise, HEC, RSM, IE, LSE, etc., all good. As for the language issue, if you're willing to pursue Norwegian/Swedish/Danish in two years, are intelligent enough to make it into SIM, and can put in the effort (a solid hour a day or so, not just attending language classes) I'm sure you could pick any of them up. It's not like you're trying to learn Mandarin or something. Finally, SIM boasts a 93% international students rate. The class size was 39 last year. The median salary was something like 100,000 USD. Intership placement rate is 100%. Now, I'm sure a heavy chunk of that 'international student rate' comes from Germany. Even then, I'd be surprised if the situation for non-EU SIM students is as bleak as the MBF situation. It's Financial Time's #1 MIM programme, after all, and for quite a few years in a row. Of course, someone attending the programme would be a much better source. I'm just making conjectures.

Hi Mooncakes,
I really dont like to do this but i feel some moral obligations to set the record straight. :oops:

Although I am in MBF there are certain courses called 'contextual studies' which are common across masters. In one such course i interacted with a few SIM students. In short I would say, their situation is hardly any different from the ones in MBF. In a way MBF students are marginally better off since they have 'hard skills' like derivative modeling, quantitative asset management, matlab, vba, stata etc whereas the SIM students have to contend with very generic 'soft-skill' toolset. Of course the course is rated pretty high. I have met their alumns in one of the consulting club parties. But as usual, as you have already pointed out, the bulk of the 'foreign' students are from Germany. the non-eu students did have internships but they were obtained through their own efforts and contacts for ex getting back to home country and interning in IT services etc :|

Long story short, SIM is more 'pro-ranking' modeled course rather than 'pro-student'...or atleast safe to say non-EU student.

-Snowden
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Weeeeelp.
:?

No worries, because I'm getting into Harvard 2+2 anyways! :lol: :roll:
Being more realistic, I might just stick in the Scandinavian region. Seems like I might be a bit safer here when it comes to securing a job, even for us non-EUs.
You had some good things to say about HEC Paris as well?
Honestly, HSG doesn't even appeal to me that much, but it's the tuition fees with other programs that makes me cringe.
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 13 Jan 2014, 03:45
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mooncakes

Weeeeelp.
:?

No worries, because I'm getting into Harvard 2+2 anyways! :lol: :roll:
Being more realistic, I might just stick in the Scandinavian region. Seems like I might be a bit safer here when it comes to securing a job, even for us non-EUs.
You had some good things to say about HEC Paris as well?
Honestly, HSG doesn't even appeal to me that much, but it's the tuition fees with other programs that makes me cringe.
Show more

Congrats Mooncakes on the admit, i guess there is no looking back. :P
I would be biased to say anything about HEC because i do not study there. On paper both are comparable. In fact as you said HSG looks even better because of the substantially low fee. but as i pointed out the reality is a tad different.
Only comment i can make is that the French schools have been on the international circuit for quite some time. if not all atleast schools like INSEAD, HEC are well known around the world. i think this is the clout that HSG is targeting.
i would dare to go as far as to say 'HEC' is the target school of 'HSG' :twisted: (atleast from internationality perspective)

-Snowden
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 15 Jan 2014, 07:51
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snowden
mooncakes

Weeeeelp.
:?

No worries, because I'm getting into Harvard 2+2 anyways! :lol: :roll:
Being more realistic, I might just stick in the Scandinavian region. Seems like I might be a bit safer here when it comes to securing a job, even for us non-EUs.
You had some good things to say about HEC Paris as well?
Honestly, HSG doesn't even appeal to me that much, but it's the tuition fees with other programs that makes me cringe.

Congrats Mooncakes on the admit, i guess there is no looking back. :P
I would be biased to say anything about HEC because i do not study there. On paper both are comparable. In fact as you said HSG looks even better because of the substantially low fee. but as i pointed out the reality is a tad different.
Only comment i can make is that the French schools have been on the international circuit for quite some time. if not all atleast schools like INSEAD, HEC are well known around the world. i think this is the clout that HSG is targeting.
i would dare to go as far as to say 'HEC' is the target school of 'HSG' :twisted: (atleast from internationality perspective)

-Snowden
Show more

Hey snowden,

Thanks for the inside info you have given about St Gallen. I am considering applying there for Fall 2014 but am slightly concerned after reading your posts.
Could I understand if the quality of education there is good enough in your opinion? Also, where would you suggest students go if not HSG/HEC?

Considering a few universities and was wondering if you had any other input/recommendations.
Thanks!
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 15 Jan 2014, 10:21
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Snowden,

What do you think about the MBF progarmm and the MSc in Quantitative program at the University of Zurich ?I was thinking those two sound very good, especially considering the location and the fact you have easy access to companies and banks without incurring significant travel costs. The MSc in Quantitative finance sounds even better because you acquire a lot of "hard skills" and basically due to the very small class size (26 ppl) I think it is next to impossible not to get a job there after graduation...
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 16 Jan 2014, 13:20
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mirri

Hey snowden,

Thanks for the inside info you have given about St Gallen. I am considering applying there for Fall 2014 but am slightly concerned after reading your posts.
Could I understand if the quality of education there is good enough in your opinion? Also, where would you suggest students go if not HSG/HEC?

Considering a few universities and was wondering if you had any other input/recommendations.
Thanks!
Show more

Hey mirri,
I think i made it pretty clear in my posts, HSG pedagogy is challenging and if you are up to it then it is rewarding in terms of knowledge. there is no bull-****, its hardcore math, math, math all the way. I think the challenging and quantitative nature of the program is mentioned in the official brochure and website too.

coming to your second question, quoting HSG and HEC as being similar is not fair. HEC is more intensive of the two but i would say less challenging in terms of the quantitative part.

now before you draw any conclusions, the math at HSG is for math's sake , you might never ever use it in the industry once you graduate. for ex , the question of why ITO's Lemma is more important for exams here than what. I agree that knowledge is good and more knowledge is better, but having limited time, this is an impediment.
Like I already posted before, its a rare and distinguished achievement for anyone to pass the MBF course in three semesters. this is so unlike any other program in the world.

Finally, i cant speak for you dude..i can only speak about the facts. But not to cheat you of an answer, i would say, if i were given a chance to choose a program now, i would any day choose a north american program.

-Snowden
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 16 Jan 2014, 13:29
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Ivan91
Snowden,

What do you think about the MBF progarmm and the MSc in Quantitative program at the University of Zurich ?I was thinking those two sound very good, especially considering the location and the fact you have easy access to companies and banks without incurring significant travel costs. The MSc in Quantitative finance sounds even better because you acquire a lot of "hard skills" and basically due to the very small class size (26 ppl) I think it is next to impossible not to get a job there after graduation...
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Hey Ivan,
i think you missed that there is a quantitative finance course at HSG as well, :P
being geographically close to banks has no meaning, seriously, atleast when you are comparing Uni Z and HSG. more than 30 investment banks, PE firms, commercial banks, AMCs etc are on campus for 1 whole week at HSG. if anyone cannot make anything out of this, then nothing else is going to work.

Finally, HSG QF course is so tough that there are people in my current batch who have quit it mid-way and have joined MBF :wink:
but i dont know you. if you think you are the next perelmann, then do it. In fact i suggest UC Berkley, it has low batch size, stupendous placements and in the USA :idea:

sorry, if i did not answer your question precisely, but i dont know much about Uni Z to be honest.

-Snowden
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University of St.Gallen (HSG) MBF 2014 intake 17 Jan 2014, 10:51
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Ivan91
Snowden,

What do you think about the MBF progarmm and the MSc in Quantitative program at the University of Zurich ?I was thinking those two sound very good, especially considering the location and the fact you have easy access to companies and banks without incurring significant travel costs. The MSc in Quantitative finance sounds even better because you acquire a lot of "hard skills" and basically due to the very small class size (26 ppl) I think it is next to impossible not to get a job there after graduation...

Hey Ivan,
i think you missed that there is a quantitative finance course at HSG as well, :P
being geographically close to banks has no meaning, seriously, atleast when you are comparing Uni Z and HSG. more than 30 investment banks, PE firms, commercial banks, AMCs etc are on campus for 1 whole week at HSG. if anyone cannot make anything out of this, then nothing else is going to work.

Finally, HSG QF course is so tough that there are people in my current batch who have quit it mid-way and have joined MBF :wink:
but i dont know you. if you think you are the next perelmann, then do it. In fact i suggest UC Berkley, it has low batch size, stupendous placements and in the USA :idea:

sorry, if i did not answer your question precisely, but i dont know much about Uni Z to be honest.

-Snowden
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Snowden,

Do you mean Quantitative Economics and Finance (MiQE/F) ? It's really strange the HSG school tuition fees are low, courses are super hard (which implies professors must be intelligent and dedicated) but career services suck. Why would they want to work so hard to train people and let them leave country ? Not doubting you but it's seems like German's have a stringent way of doing things :).
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