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sgangs
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Thanks a lot Kevin. It was a good reply.
Quote:
Great question! I like the fact that you are reading The Economist and thinking about these issues
Yeah, practising GMAT English is making me skeptical of normal, day to day English. :) :)

Mike, I like the
Quote:
"shade of gray"
concept. However, in this "shade of gray" situation, isn't it possible to choose either the white or the black? What I'm asking is, isn't it unfair of GMAT to test these awkward "in the soup" situations.

Mike & Kevin, just I more question; in IEEE Spectrum I saw "-ed modifier" modifying the noun of the preceeding clause (Sorry because I dont remember the exact quote and hence cant post it here).
Is this also a "shade of grey" or is this a justifiable use in GMAT.
Thanks a lot to you guys for the previous explaination
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sgangs
Thanks a lot Kevin. It was a good reply.
Quote:
Great question! I like the fact that you are reading The Economist and thinking about these issues
Yeah, practising GMAT English is making me skeptical of normal, day to day English. :) :)

Mike, I like the
Quote:
"shade of gray"
concept. However, in this "shade of gray" situation, isn't it possible to choose either the white or the black? What I'm asking is, isn't it unfair of GMAT to test these awkward "in the soup" situations.

Mike & Kevin, just I more question; in IEEE Spectrum I saw "-ed modifier" modifying the noun of the preceeding clause (Sorry because I dont remember the exact quote and hence cant post it here).
Is this also a "shade of grey" or is this a justifiable use in GMAT.
Thanks a lot to you guys for the previous explanation
Dear sgangs,
First of all, let me be more clear --- whether that short phrase "last month" was a vital modifier is in a shade of grey, but the fact that it is also short and leaves absolutely no ambiguity moves it from gray to perfectly acceptable. There was a question on the way that was a shade of gray, but not in the final product. That's why it would fly on the GMAT. There's absolutely nothing unfair about that.

A participle of any sort, either a present participle (-ing) or a past participle (-ed), can modify a noun, even if it separated from the noun by a vital noun modifier. For example,
The artist was painting the house on the hill, bathed in light of the setting sun.
The participial phrase "bathed ..." modifies "house." The participial phrase is separated from the noun it modifies by a vital noun modifier. This subject matter is not the sort of subject that the GMAT would use, but the grammatical construction is 100% correct and definitely could appear on the GMAT. There's absolutely nothing questionable here. No gray at all.

I will suggest
(a) read about participial phrases:
https://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/participle ... -the-gmat/
(b) read about modifiers on the GMAT & the Touch Rule
https://magoosh.com/gmat/2013/modifiers- ... orrection/
(c) read about vital noun modifiers
https://magoosh.com/gmat/2012/gmat-gramm ... modifiers/

Does all this make sense?
Mike :-)
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Thanks again Mike.
A great explanation.
However, my question with "ed modifier" was different. Suppose, we've a comma+"ed modifier". Now according to the "E-GMAT" explanation in the link https://gmatclub.com/forum/verb-ed-modifiers-cannot-jump-over-verbs-158426.html we cannot use this modifier for subject nouns. However IEEE Spectrum had done it and that use is not uncommon in normal English.
It would be great if you could share your take on how GMAC views this.
Thanks in advance.
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sgangs
Thanks again Mike.
A great explanation.
However, my question with "ed modifier" was different. Suppose, we've a comma+"ed modifier". Now according to the "E-GMAT" explanation in the link https://gmatclub.com/forum/verb-ed-modifiers-cannot-jump-over-verbs-158426.html we cannot use this modifier for subject nouns. However IEEE Spectrum had done it and that use is not uncommon in normal English.
It would be great if you could share your take on how GMAC views this.
Thanks in advance.
Dear sgangs
I don't believe there is a cut-and-dry mathematical rule, a one-size-fits-all rule, that we can enunciate here. Some students want this kind of clear certainty for everything in grammar, and some providers manufacture rules for scenarios such as this to satisfy what students want, but it's far from clear to me that such crystallized rules reflect the complexity of the test.

I would have to see some examples of the sentence from the IEEE or from "normal English" that have this structure. I think it is something that we would have to decide on a case by case basis. If the verb were intransitive and there were no other nouns after the verb, then I don't think it would be a problem.
Stocks for XYZ Corporation fell precipitously today, impacted by the announcement of the trade embargo.
I see nothing wrong with that sentence. As soon as there is another noun after the verb, a direct object or something else, then it's hard to understand trying to use the past participle to modify the subject wouldn't create ambiguity. If noun A is followed by a prepositional phrase or some other vital noun modifier, then it's easy to see how the modifier might "leap over" any closer noun to modify noun A. But, the direct object of a verb certainly will not be part of the vital noun modifier of the verb's subject. Is that all they are getting at here? I would really need to see some examples of sentences you have in mind that do this and, according to some standards, are still correct.

Mike :-)
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Thanks Mike, it was a great explanation. I had completely missed the "intransitive verb" point. The example has the structure as " XYZ had agreed, decided by blah blah blah..".
Great explanation. Thanks a lot.

P.S.: Thanks Kevin for the kudos :-D :-D
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