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V12-05

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Re: V12-05  [#permalink]

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New post 17 Nov 2018, 10:26
sayantanc2k wrote:
saichandm wrote:
shouldn't the earlier event have past perfect and the event that occurs afterwards have past tense??


This is one of the most confusing traps in tense section - it is suggested that be consciously aware of this trap. The explanation already clarifies why the tenses are so. Following is another example (from Manhattan SC guide) - compare this with option A - the concept would then probably be clearer:

The band U2 WAS just one of many new groups on the rock music scene in the early 1980's, but less than ten years later, U2 HAD fully ECLIPSED its early rivals in the pantheon of popular music.


Hi, is there any additional explanation on this kind of trap somehwere? A link to a post or article would be really useful, thanks
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Re: V12-05  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Dec 2018, 08:45
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Hi sayantanc2k,

Can u please explain why OA C is incorrect?
You have provided reasons as to why OA A could be correct, not why other answer options are incorrect. That would help!!
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New post 08 Dec 2018, 08:47
Bunuel, VeritasKarishma, @fsilnik,

Do u agree with the provided OA? If yes, could you please provide some explanation? Not satisfied with sayantan's explanation.
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New post 27 Dec 2018, 08:27
I think this is a high-quality question and I agree with explanation.
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Re: V12-05  [#permalink]

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New post 12 Mar 2019, 06:37
Experts please correct my understanding if I am wrong:

Earlier event = past perfect IF later event is conveyed in past tense form (Simple past tense)

Earlier event = simple past tense IF later event is conveyed in a time period (NO SIMPLE PAST, but still gives the chronology, and makes sense)
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New post 12 Mar 2019, 06:41
piyush26 wrote:
Hi sayantanc2k,

Can u please explain why OA C is incorrect?
You have provided reasons as to why OA A could be correct, not why other answer options are incorrect. That would help!!


Hi,
I think C is wrong because two tenses are used perfect past tense (Had been) and simple present tense ( one in the morning there is nothing ...)
I dont think we can use perfect past tense with simple tense.

Experts may correct my understanding
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V12-05  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Mar 2019, 00:08
Let me put things clearly here.
There are just 3 rules to remember on 'had' usage:
1. Clause 1 , Clause 2 - The first of the two events will have past perfect word
2. 'By' followed by a clause [the clause will have past perfect] - Careful when you see by. Eg: By the end of Civil war, Citizens had worked to.....
3. Clause 1 , after, clause 2 - Past perfect words become optional because after does the work of sequencing. Its both right to have and not have the past perfect!

Happy learning !
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V12-05  [#permalink]

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New post 22 May 2019, 11:55
Dear Experts,
I hope you are doing well.

Though I answered the question correctly, I just want to confirm the approach I used to answer the question.
I want to bring to your kind attention to this part of the sentence :
Quote:
but by a quarter to one in the morning there had been nothing in the warm

Am I correct in saying that the use of past perfect is 100% grammatical above because we have 2 events, which are -
1st event - Thin patch of moonlight cloud
2nd event - By quarter to one

and thus, the use of past perfect?

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Re: V12-05  [#permalink]

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New post 23 May 2019, 06:45
While the use of tense in the original, supposedly correct, version of this sentence might be correct in another context, the meaning conveyed by that version is nonsensical.

Here's the OA version:

Shortly after sunset there were juddering green stabs of lightning to the south, but by a quarter to one in the morning there had been nothing in the warm, wet July air over Cape Canaveral but a thin patchwork of moonlit cloud.

The first part of the sentence works, this part, "Shortly after sunset there were juddering green stabs of lightning to the south."

Now, notice what that part conveys. It conveys that there HAD BEEN stabs of lightning.

OK, now, let's consider what the second portion conveys. It conveys that, by a point in time later that night, there HAD BEEN nothing in the sky but a thin patchwork of moonlit cloud.

The meaning of the second portion conflicts with that of the first.

While many people are under the impression that "by the time x" in the past must be followed by the past perfect, it can also be followed by the simple past of "to be," which in this case is "was."

In order for this sentence to make sense, it has to use the simple past "was" rather than the past perfect "had been."

Here's the correct version:

Shortly after sunset there were juddering green stabs of lightning to the south, but by a quarter to one in the morning there was nothing in the warm, wet July air over Cape Canaveral but a thin patchwork of moonlit cloud.
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Re: V12-05   [#permalink] 23 May 2019, 06:45

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