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Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom

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New post 24 Aug 2017, 09:01
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Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom, which makes it impossible for them to know for certain whether their actions are legal. Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure. The conclusion follows logically if which one of the following is assumed?

A. People can feel secure only if they know for certain whether their actions are legal.
B. If people do not know for certain whether their actions are legal, then they might not feel secure.
C. If people know for certain whether their actions are legal, they can feel secure.
D. People can feel secure if they are governed by laws that are not vague.
E. Only people who feel secure can know for certain whether their actions are legal.

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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 24 Aug 2017, 21:28
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nightblade354 wrote:
Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom, which makes it impossible for them to know for certain whether their actions are legal. Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure. The conclusion follows logically if which one of the following is assumed?

A. People can feel secure only if they know for certain whether their actions are legal.
B. If people do not know for certain whether their actions are legal, then they might not feel secure.
C. If people know for certain whether their actions are legal, they can feel secure.
D. People can feel secure if they are governed by laws that are not vague.
E. Only people who feel secure can know for certain whether their actions are legal.



Hi..

to answer this Q you have to understand WHAT exactly the following means

Quote:
makes it impossible for them to know for certain whether their actions are legal. Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure.


"Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure." MEANS that feeling secure is possible only when vague laws are not there..

Now contendos here would be A and C.

lets see the two choices

A. People can feel secure only if they know for certain whether their actions are legal.
this means EXACTLY as written above that - feeling secure is possible only when vague laws are not there..
correct

C. If people know for certain whether their actions are legal, they can feel secure.
this tells us the OPPOSITE - knowing for certain... is possible on;ly when a person feels secure.. eliminate

A
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Aug 2017, 04:28
chetan2u wrote:
nightblade354 wrote:
Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom, which makes it impossible for them to know for certain whether their actions are legal. Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure. The conclusion follows logically if which one of the following is assumed?

A. People can feel secure only if they know for certain whether their actions are legal.
B. If people do not know for certain whether their actions are legal, then they might not feel secure.
C. If people know for certain whether their actions are legal, they can feel secure.
D. People can feel secure if they are governed by laws that are not vague.
E. Only people who feel secure can know for certain whether their actions are legal.



Hi..

to answer this Q you have to understand WHAT exactly the following means

Quote:
makes it impossible for them to know for certain whether their actions are legal. Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure.


"Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure." MEANS that feeling secure is possible only when vague laws are not there..

Now contendos here would be A and C.

lets see the two choices

A. People can feel secure only if they know for certain whether their actions are legal.
this means EXACTLY as written above that - feeling secure is possible only when vague laws are not there..
correct

C. If people know for certain whether their actions are legal, they can feel secure.
this tells us the OPPOSITE - knowing for certain... is possible on;ly when a person feels secure.. eliminate

A


Chetan-can you explain how to eliminate B? B looks to the perfect assumption to me.
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Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 25 Aug 2017, 05:06
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nightblade354 wrote:
B. If people do not know for certain whether their actions are legal, then they might not feel secure.


Option B is wrong because this states if someone does not know for certain whether his actions are legal, then he might not feel secure.
'might not' isn't a strong word.
Now it is also possible for someone who does not know whether his actions are legal but feels secure.(In which case our conclusion no more holds true)

we need an assumption that is strong and that holds the conclusion true. Hence A.
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Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Aug 2017, 06:57
nightblade354 wrote:
Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom, which makes it impossible for them to know for certain whether their actions are legal. Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure. The conclusion follows logically if which one of the following is assumed?

A. People can feel secure only if they know for certain whether their actions are legal.
B. If people do not know for certain whether their actions are legal, then they might not feel secure.
C. If people know for certain whether their actions are legal, they can feel secure.
D. People can feel secure if they are governed by laws that are not vague.
E. Only people who feel secure can know for certain whether their actions are legal.


Hi mikemcgarry

I can not understand the difference between choice A and C .
Initially i thought the answer is D but later chose C as D out of context .
A and C look same to me in except how they are phrased .
I am confused between these two choices .
Please help me understand question such as this .

Thanks & Regards,
Arvind
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2017, 02:42
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arvind910619 wrote:
Hi mikemcgarry

I can not understand the difference between choice A and C .
Initially i thought the answer is D but later chose C as D out of context .
A and C look same to me in except how they are phrased .
I am confused between these two choices .
Please help me understand question such as this .

Thanks & Regards,
Arvind


Hi arvind910619 ,

This question is testing the construction If P, then Q. This construction implies ~Q --> ~P.

Any other form is wrong.

We are given If P(they donot know about legal actions), Q(they cannot feel secure).

It means only possible solution could be They feel secure --> they know legal actions.

A. People can feel secure only if they know for certain whether their actions are legal.

This is similar to what I mentioned above. Hence, correct.

C. If people know for certain whether their actions are legal, they can feel secure.

C is saying: If ~P --> ~Q.

As I mentioned above this type of case is not valid for if P then Q construction. Hence, C is incorrect.

Does that make sense?
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2017, 06:47
Why is D wrong. Please help me out.

If A happens B happens. But if A does not happened then B also didnt happnd.. So accordingly whats Wrong with D?

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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2017, 06:50
1
yogesh610 wrote:
Why is D wrong. Please help me out.

If A happens B happens. But if A does not happened then B also didnt happnd.. So accordingly whats Wrong with D?

Posted from my mobile device


Hi yogesh610,

Here is the catch. What implication you drew was wrong.

If A happens, B happens

MEANS

B doesn't happen--> A doesn't happen. It is not the way you wrote.

Hence, D is incorrect.

Does that make sense?
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 27 Aug 2017, 06:54
Ohhh i got it... The IF is in he latter part... Thnkss

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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Sep 2017, 00:51
chetan2u wrote:
nightblade354 wrote:
Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom, which makes it impossible for them to know for certain whether their actions are legal. Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure. The conclusion follows logically if which one of the following is assumed?

A. People can feel secure only if they know for certain whether their actions are legal.
B. If people do not know for certain whether their actions are legal, then they might not feel secure.
C. If people know for certain whether their actions are legal, they can feel secure.
D. People can feel secure if they are governed by laws that are not vague.
E. Only people who feel secure can know for certain whether their actions are legal.



Hi..

to answer this Q you have to understand WHAT exactly the following means

Quote:
makes it impossible for them to know for certain whether their actions are legal. Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure.


"Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure." MEANS that feeling secure is possible only when vague laws are not there..

Now contendos here would be A and C.

lets see the two choices

A. People can feel secure only if they know for certain whether their actions are legal.
this means EXACTLY as written above that - feeling secure is possible only when vague laws are not there..
correct

C. If people know for certain whether their actions are legal, they can feel secure.
this tells us the OPPOSITE - knowing for certain... is possible on;ly when a person feels secure.. eliminate

A


Hi Chetan.. can you help understand option C ? I narrowed it down to A and C and ultimately I picked C as its not as extreme as A. I discarded A on the logic that, there might be other factors that might contribute to the secure feeling. C and A state the same thing, however C fills the gap perfectly. Can you help me understand where did I get it wrong ??
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Sep 2017, 02:33
anuj11 wrote:
Hi Chetan.. can you help understand option C ? I narrowed it down to A and C and ultimately I picked C as its not as extreme as A. I discarded A on the logic that, there might be other factors that might contribute to the secure feeling. C and A state the same thing, however C fills the gap perfectly. Can you help me understand where did I get it wrong ??


Hi anuj11 ,

Please try to understand the explanation given here

Let me know in case of any doubts.
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Nov 2017, 05:51
nightblade354 wrote:
Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom, which makes it impossible for them to know for certain whether their actions are legal. Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure. The conclusion follows logically if which one of the following is assumed?

A. People can feel secure only if they know for certain whether their actions are legal.
B. If people do not know for certain whether their actions are legal, then they might not feel secure.
C. If people know for certain whether their actions are legal, they can feel secure.
D. People can feel secure if they are governed by laws that are not vague.
E. Only people who feel secure can know for certain whether their actions are legal.


Hi i will like to add my few cents here
First of all, the question is from LSAT PPOWERSCORE BIBLE , NOT MANHATTAN GMAT
second of all, This is not an assumption question , but a justify the conclusion question
In order to solve this one , you need to have a good grasp on Conditional reasoning
and mechanics of justify the conclusion question types

Let me help you
Premise 1: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom
Premise 2 : Vague limits make impossible for people to know for certain whether their actions are legal.
Conclusion :under vague laws people cannot feel secure
Thus we have
Premise ::Vague laws ----- Vague limits -------Know OR not know whether actions are legal
Conclusion ::
Vague laws ---------not Secure
AND SINCE,
Vague laws ----- Vague limits (( vague law leads to vague limits))) ---- know or not know actions legal
WE CAN DEDUCE THAT
KNOW OR NOT KNOW ACTION LEGAL ----- NOT SECURE. Now, we have to justify this conclusion
Clearly by this relationship we can see that """"" people do not know that their actions are legal lead to people not feeling secure"""
Now if we state this in conditional terms it will go like this
people do not know that their actions are legal= NOT P.L
people not secure = NOT P.S,
therefore not P.L.----- NOT P.S.
or if NOT P.L.. THEN NOT P.S.
we can always take contrapostive of if then statements , which is nothing but mere negation of L.HS AND R.H.S and reversing the equation (((HERE AS IN MATHEMATICS TWO NEGATIVES MAKE A POSITIVE , WHEN WE WILL NEGATE NOTP.S. IT WILL BE P.S. AND NOT P.L. WILL BE P.L.
Thus, contrapostive is
P.S.-------P/L/
in IF THEN TERMS
if PEOPLE are feeling secure, THEN people know their actions are legal
which is stated in option a
Believe me if you get a chance to go through the justify your conclusion section of powerscore LSAT bible , these questions will be a piece of cake
Hope it helps
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Nov 2017, 07:36
Ravindra.here wrote:
Hi i will like to add my few cents here
First of all, the question is from LSAT PPOWERSCORE BIBLE , NOT MANHATTAN GMAT
second of all, This is not an assumption question , but a justify the conclusion question
In order to solve this one , you need to have a good grasp on Conditional reasoning
and mechanics of justify the conclusion question types


LOL, this question's source is neither from Powerscore Bible nor Manhattan Gmat. This question is from the official LSAT test LOL. Those books just have a collection of LSAT questions. That's why there are some common questions that appear in both two books.
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 07 Nov 2017, 10:48
broall wrote:
Ravindra.here wrote:
Hi i will like to add my few cents here
First of all, the question is from LSAT PPOWERSCORE BIBLE , NOT MANHATTAN GMAT
second of all, This is not an assumption question , but a justify the conclusion question
In order to solve this one , you need to have a good grasp on Conditional reasoning
and mechanics of justify the conclusion question types


LOL, this question's source is neither from Powerscore Bible nor Manhattan Gmat. This question is from the official LSAT test LOL. Those books just have a collection of LSAT questions. That's why there are some common questions that appear in both two books.


Thanks for your valuable response. I think so this will add a few cents more to my explanation.

btw as explained by merriam webster
Definition of source

1 a :a generative force :cause
b (1) :a point of origin or procurement :beginning (2) :one that initiates :author; also
:prototype, model (3) :one that supplies information
The use of my source " Powerscore Lsat Bible " as explained by prototype model 3 is not contradictory.
But , then you always have a move ahead by posting valuable questions in actual LSAT CR BANK by broall
Though , if i interpret correctly it must be actual LSAT CR BANK BY OLD LSAT PAPERS NOT actual CR BANK BY BROALL
as the actual source is OLD LSAT PAPERS .
But again thanks for your valuable comment
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Nov 2017, 08:22
Ravindra.here wrote:
broall wrote:
Ravindra.here wrote:
Hi i will like to add my few cents here
First of all, the question is from LSAT PPOWERSCORE BIBLE , NOT MANHATTAN GMAT
second of all, This is not an assumption question , but a justify the conclusion question
In order to solve this one , you need to have a good grasp on Conditional reasoning
and mechanics of justify the conclusion question types


LOL, this question's source is neither from Powerscore Bible nor Manhattan Gmat. This question is from the official LSAT test LOL. Those books just have a collection of LSAT questions. That's why there are some common questions that appear in both two books.


Thanks for your valuable response. I think so this will add a few cents more to my explanation.

btw as explained by merriam webster
Definition of source

1 a :a generative force :cause
b (1) :a point of origin or procurement :beginning (2) :one that initiates :author; also
:prototype, model (3) :one that supplies information
The use of my source " Powerscore Lsat Bible " as explained by prototype model 3 is not contradictory.
But , then you always have a move ahead by posting valuable questions in actual LSAT CR BANK by broall
Though , if i interpret correctly it must be actual LSAT CR BANK BY OLD LSAT PAPERS NOT actual CR BANK BY BROALL
as the actual source is OLD LSAT PAPERS .
But again thanks for your valuable comment


No, I think your example is irrelevant.

"Actual LSAT CR by Broall", I set this title because I mean that that list (actual LSAT) is made by me. How? I collect those questions and store them in a list with some arragements such as the area, or the difficulty level. Those LSAT questions don't belong to me, but the list does!

Btw, I dont want to discuss more on irrelevant topic. Thank you for your explanation!
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jan 2018, 02:43
Okay! The war is between A, C and E. All of them are pretty close. How did I arrive here? Let us see.

Premises and Conclusions are highly certain and they have emphasized this by usage of "cannot" in the stems. In B, using might not attacks this certainty. Hence, B is not the answer.

Answer Choice cntains neither "cannot feel secure" nor "legal" hence, it is wrong.

Lets come to A, C and E. When we look closely, C and E means the same thing and even the structure is similar. Hence, answer choice is A
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jan 2018, 14:18
could someone please help me with option D?

Vague Laws - People don't feel secure (A Leads to B)
People feel secure - If there are no vague laws (-B leads to -A)

Isn't this what option D is saying? Please help me!
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jan 2018, 22:03
csaluja wrote:
could someone please help me with option D?

Vague Laws - People don't feel secure (A Leads to B)
People feel secure - If there are no vague laws (-B leads to -A)

Isn't this what option D is saying? Please help me!


hey csaluja ,

Here is the catch: You didn't understand the question correctly.

Check the explanation here and let me know in case of any concern.
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Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jan 2018, 03:33
nightblade354 wrote:
Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom, which makes it impossible for them to know for certain whether their actions are legal. Thus, under vague laws people cannot feel secure. The conclusion follows logically if which one of the following is assumed?

A. People can feel secure only if they know for certain whether their actions are legal.
B. If people do not know for certain whether their actions are legal, then they might not feel secure.
C. If people know for certain whether their actions are legal, they can feel secure.
D. People can feel secure if they are governed by laws that are not vague.
E. Only people who feel secure can know for certain whether their actions are legal.





For me the negation technique worked just fine in this question:

Obviously, the scuffle is between A and C.




Shot to A. We negate it.

People can feel secure NOT only if they know for certain whether their actions are legal.

Conclusion destroyed. There is a way whereby people can feel secure even though vague laws are applied.




Shot to C. We negate it.

If people know for certain whether their actions are legal, they canNOT feel secure.

Conclusion intact. This does not push away the possibility that one feels insecure when they don´t know whether their actions are legal. It´s kind of ridiculous because it this negative manner it implies that in neither case they will feel secure, but the conclusion does not fall apart as it is stated.




I am not entirely sure whether my reasoning is completely coherent, maybe some expert might review it and confirm ;)
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jan 2018, 07:34
wONDERFUL example of conditionals:
SC --> NC
As per question : Not secure ---> Don't know laws
not NC ==> not SC .

know laws ---> secure.

A is the answer. But This question is kind of inference type ..
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Re: Vague laws set vague limits on people’s freedom &nbs [#permalink] 22 Jan 2018, 07:34
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