710, Q44 V42 - Very nontraditional applicant - Your advice please

Question

Hello Veritas Prep Admissions Experts!

I am an extremely nontraditional b-school applicant. As you can see from my profile, my GMAT scores are interesting as well. Heh, heh.

I was born and raised in Toronto. Have over 11 years progressive experience, including 8 years management experience. I've worked in 3 industries/sectors. I began my career in card processing, then moved to IT SaaS, and finally 3 years ago moved to nonprofit which I intend to make my home. The thing is, when everyone else was in university I was making a pretty penny in card processing, so I had no interest in going to university at the time. From my teen years and into my twenties I had few role models or people who might encourage me to go to school. I've definitely paid the price for it.

I've lost a number of excellent opportunities due to my lack of degree. I've done well through contacts but I've missed out on two extremely good positions because the hiring person happened to be a part-time prof at a top school or something similar... In other words, big advocate for higher education and not at all willing to hire someone without a degree for a management spot.

I'm 32 and going for a bachelor's degree just doesn't make sense. A few years ago I did take 3 university classes as an open student, just for fun. I had a 3.8 GPA but wasn't at all serious about it. So in summer 2012, when I first had the idea that an MBA might be pursuable, I spoke with the asst director of admissions at Schulich and asked her if I had any chance. She said that my experience is progressive, that I would soon meet the experience requirement for mature students (8 years management experience), and that if I could get a decent GMAT score, I might have a strong application.

So I got the GMAT out of the way yesterday but my quant was significantly lower than what had been typical for me on official practice tests (usually between 70-78 percentile). Unfortunately on test day I wasn't prepared for the 5 foot computer screen that was 3 inches away from my face. I only got comfortable with the space half way into the test. I could be wrong but I figure that I could swing a 730 - 750 if I pulled up my quant a little. My verbal score is consistent.

I should add that my IR score was 38 percentile. Whoops. On official practice tests I've scored between 5 and 8, typically 7.

My questions are - 
1. Would my low quant score be a significant red flag? Or is my verbal good enough that I needn't worry?
2. Should I worry about the low IR score?
3. I want to go to Schulich specifically because they have a nonprofit specialization, but I plan on applying to a number of schools, namely Ivy, Rotman, possibly Laurier, and Queens... Maybe Ted Rogers if nobody likes me, but I'm not at all interested in their programs. Do you have any input on my chances with these programs?

Thank you kindly for any advice you have to give. Cheers!

bryantmichaels · Answer

I have actually never heard of any school admitting someone without an undergrad degree, so you are one step ahead of me there. I know schools in the US would not. If you have found some schools who will, then go for it. I will answer your questions as if you have the UG degree:

1. Would my low quant score be a significant red flag? Or is my verbal good enough that I needn't worry?

low quant is always a red flag--it's what schools hone in on when assessing ability to handle the rigorous academics. Most schools like to see an A in a Calculus course, for example, as well.

2. Should I worry about the low IR score?

IR is not a concern--schools don't yet know what to do with it.

3. I want to go to Schulich specifically because they have a nonprofit specialization, but I plan on applying to a number of schools, namely Ivy, Rotman, possibly Laurier, and Queens... Maybe Ted Rogers if nobody likes me, but I'm not at all interested in their programs. Do you have any input on my chances with these programs?

Again, I would have said zero without an undergrad degree, but if that ends up not being a hurdle, I would say you'd have to get your targeted score on the GMAT to have a shot. Without a degree, the GMAT will be your only hope to demonstrate aptitude.

Anonamy · Answer

Hi Bryant,

I can't speak on other countries but I know in Canada there are some schools that will consider candidates who have 8-12 years management experience in lieu of a bachelor's degree, however it's very uncommon. Some Canadian schools have a *very* brief mention of it on their admissions sites. It's more common for those candidates to be considered for the EMBA program rather than the MBA program. I can't confirm it but I heard that Schulich has admitted one such student to the MBA program per year. So the competition is fierce.

Thank you for your advice - I've booked my next test date. I wrote my last official practice test two days before the GMAT, and I'd scored 78 percentile on quant. My plan is to get to the point where my quant is consistently at that mark, so that my scores will hopefully add up to a 730-750.

On the topic of not getting a bachelor's degree, yes it's been difficult to get around and a huge regret of mine. Mid to large-sized organizations generally don't want managers who don't have bachelors degrees because it's too difficult to explain to the would-be manager's team (since those members likely all have degrees). I was entirely independent at age 17 due to very little support from my family. I was lucky to get an administrative assistant position at age 19 and the financial firm I was working for took a chance on me by promoting me into an account executive position 8 months later. I was lucky enough (and tenacious enough

) to continue to be promoted from there. I don't like to tell people about my roots because some people seem to respect humble beginnings but some seem to think it's an excuse. I'm not sure if you have any thoughts on whether admissions folks are interested in those kinds of stories.

Funnily enough, I'm a bigger advocate for higher ed than many of my peers who have degrees. It was difficult becoming aware of the world without having that holistic base to build on. I remember reading an Atlantic magazine for the first time in my early twenties. It blew my mind.

I'll keep you posted on how my next attempt goes. Thank you again for your advice.

) to continue to be promoted from there. I don't like to tell people about my roots because some people seem to respect humble beginnings but some seem to think it's an excuse. I'm not sure if you have any thoughts on whether admissions folks are interested in those kinds of stories. Funnily enough, I'm a bigger advocate for higher ed than many of my peers who have degrees. It was difficult becoming aware of the world without having that holistic base to build on. I remember reading an Atlantic magazine for the first time in my early twenties. It blew my mind. I'll keep you posted on how my next attempt goes. Thank you again for your advice.

bryantmichaels · Answer

Thanks--I'd love to hear how that works out since as I mentioned, it's new to me. Curious why you never simply went back to earn your UG degree? Seems like you could have done it part time over the years, no?

Anonamy · Answer

You're absolutely right. I was just speaking with my sister about that - she's two years older than me and a director in a mid-sized commercial real estate company. Both of us started off as administrative assistants and worked our way up, although she's gotten her real estate certification now. Both of us had a lot of fun and did a lot of shopping once we were making money. In my early to mid twenties having money to spend was my top priority - I had drive but wasn't thinking longterm. Even now my sister and I both find it a little embarrassing when we're asked where we went to school.

I remember my colleagues at the financial firm always telling me that I didn't need to worry about a degree - of course these people all had degrees. They were older than me and very successful, and so I took their advice. At the time I was working in sales so a degree mattered less. Once I moved into IT I transitioned over to marketing and now I'm in communications for nonprofits, which is basically marketing for nonprofits. So a degree has become a lot more important to my career now, although it probably always was.

To be entirely honest our negligent father had mental health issues and our mother/guardian was disabled after an accident. So making immediate money for ourselves and having immediate security was a mindset that was very engrained in us. It's taken me some time to get out of this short-term thinking.

bryantmichaels · Answer

I wonder if there are any schools that will give you the chance to earn your UG degree on the way to an MBA degree? I know schools do joint grad degrees all the time, and often getting a PhD includes picking up a Master's degree along the way.

Anonamy · Answer

That's very interesting - I wasn't even aware that that might be a possibility. I was going under the assumption that if I had an MBA from a reputable school, then where I got my UG degree wouldn't even come up... What are your thoughts on that?

710, Q44 V42 - Very nontraditional applicant - Your advice please

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