Stern ($$) vs Ross

Question

Hi everyone,

I am having trouble deciding between Stern with $60k scholarship and Ross with no scholarship. Planning on recruiting for consulting so I'm leaning towards Ross at this point. I think the total cost will be about equal for both schools considering the scholarship + high COL in NYC. Also given that Stern is a commuter school and a lot of people attending Stern are native NYers, plus the fact that I don't drink, I'm worried that I won't be able to develop deep relationships at Stern. Don't have a preference where I end up after school but think it would be cool to be in NYC for a couple years.

TLDR heart says Stern, brain says Ross.

Stern 
Pros
+ have always wanted to live in NYC, good opportunity to experience the city without having to commit to a FT job there
+ $60k scholarship makes total cost about the same as Ross
+ Stern Consulting Corps seems equivalent to Ross's MAP in terms of experiential learning
+ more international recognition if I ever decide to work outside the US
Cons
- MBB not as strong
- worried about making friends given commuter vibe + not drinking
- harder to recruit outside of NYC (not sure if true or not)

Ross 
Pros
+ stronger MBB placement
+ wider placement in terms of geography
+ reputation carries more weight / better network
+ MAP project is positively regarded by alumni I've spoken to 
+ start legacy? my dad got his MS at the engineering school, not sure if that is significant
Cons
- college town
- colder than NYC
- Michigan is not as recognized as NYU internationally

souvik101990 · Answer

Hello, fellow Redditor,

Consulting is pretty strong at Ross, and MBB hired a lot of folks from class this year. The $60K scholarship can even things out, depending on how you choose to live your life, but the COL in Ann Arbor can be as low as $1,500 per month (rent+utilities+living) if you are frugal, while at NYC it will easily be around $4,000 so basically the different sets you back by $60Kish so overall the money is fair game.

That said, Ross has beefed up its game for a while now and I would not go to Stern just to live in NYC. There will be plenty of opportunities to do that as a non student. Consulting is better at Ross and there will plenty of tier 2 firms (EY etc.) recruiting at Ross but not at Stern, however you can get interviews through networking.

I agree with a lot of your pros and cons, but Michigan is a bigger brand internationally, and everybody screams "Go Blue" who go there.

The MAP thing is cool at Ross, but I do not think that should weigh into any of your decision choices, which I hope you make purely on a recruitment perspective. Living in NYC will give you a lot more opportunities to network with more than just consulting, and geographically a lot of Ross recruiting gets concentrated in Chicago and Seattle/SF in consulting and tech roles.

So that is all the information I wanted to give you, but if you just ask me for my honest opinion - you should go blue.

mba2020throwaway · Answer

Hi souvik101990, Thank you for your detailed response - I agree that I should focus primarily on recruiting, in which case Ross definitely has an edge over Stern. I saw a post you made in another thread mentioning you are at Ross right now. Do you know the most recent numbers for MBB interns/FTs (including # of sponsored students)? The employment report doesn't state the numbers, just % of students who landed consulting jobs. I know the Ross website says they don't negotiate scholarship offers but I just wanted to see if you've heard of anyone successfully leveraged a scholarship from another school. I am extremely close to committing to Ross but just wanted to hear other people's thoughts to validate mine.

souvik101990 · Answer

They do not negotiate scholarships  generally speaking . But it would not hurt to ask. What do you have to lose? And you do have a valid argument because you have $$ from a somewhat peer school.

In terms of MBB numbers, I cannot disclose exact numbers but at least 10-12% of the whole class ended up going to MBB, which I think is a VERY good stat and beats Kellogg by a few points.

JohnJohnJ · Answer

I will love this debate here with Souvik1011990. so let’s see

Posted from my mobile device

souvik101990 · Answer

Curious to know where you see the debate!

Also, just so you know your median base for consulting for Ross is wrong too - its $150K, but that's irrelevant because, well, STATISTICS! (BTW, I am very happy to hear it did not qualify as a "disaster" for you like Sloan did!)

Also have you heard of this term called non significant differences?

Finally MBBs are NOT known to give a higher salary than consulting firms. Your overall comp might be higher, but the base salary of many consulting firms are higher than MBB - EY is higher by $10K, and so are Oliver Wyman, LEK, Alix Partners.

souvik101990 · Answer

Case in point to something what  bb  said a while back and is overwhelmingly true

JohnJohnJ · Answer

Bahahaha! ✌️

Posted from my mobile device

bb · Answer

Good to see a lively conversation

. I can see potentially NYC salary being higher and giving Stern a lift in averages. Regional trends make it a bit difficult comparing salaries across the board - e.g. Foster and Kelley average salaries are quite a bit diff. Also overall comp is a perhaps better measure. Salaries tend to be lowballed. Posted from my mobile device

JohnJohnJ · Answer

BB, MBBs and consulting firms don’t have different salaries when they hire for different regions, their salaries are standard for all schools in all regions in USA.

From my experience at an MBB, salaries change after a couple of years if you being in the region. So if MBA grads at McKinsey in SF get a year over year increase of 8-9%, they’ll normalize it for local salaries in say Dallas by giving a lower year over year increase - day 4-5%

But sure you are experts here!

Posted from my mobile device

souvik101990 · Answer

Man, you really don't like to get into the details. Look at the page before the one that you referred. You are looking at the numbers for consulting by function and not by industry, which also includes a bunch of other firms that hire internal strategy consultants.

Also, the MC salaries for MBB are written in a range, but feel free to ask your connections at business school.

While it is true that consulting pays similar money across the board regardless of geographies, you can often negotiate through explaining the cost of living differences. But I guess you would still refer to static external reports, in which case, more power to you!

mba2020throwaway · Answer

JohnJohnJ,

Thank you for your input. If MBB/consulting is about equal at both schools, then I'm curious why you say Stern over Ross - just because of the $60k scholarship?

Also I found a post you had made that stated you had interviewed both a Sternie and Ross student for a position at your consulting firm. Did you feel the Sternie was better prepared for the interview, e.g. a more unique perspective to tackling the case?

JohnJohnJ · Answer

Post MBA, I moved to NYC (And these days I split my time between NYC and SF), so I interact with a lot of kids from different business schools in these two cities.

There are cut and dry ways to crack a consulting (or finance or tech or marketing) interview. Every school has their case book (s), kids get case books from other schools, and they conduct mock interviews with alums. 
At Ross, you’ll have alums from the Detroit office coming in to help and at Stern it’ll be alums from the NYC office coming to help.

Interviews can start in 7-8 months of starting the program-so all kids get 7-8 months to prep. Even the stupidest kid can become an expert at interviewing after 7-8 months of prep.

So what separates the two schools?
Proven quantities difference (even if it’s marginal) between the two schools
NYC creates more opportunities, bigger network-the city is the network
I could add many more but you have $60k from Stern and it’s a better school, there shouldn’t be any more room for debate

Anecdotally, one engagement manager from Ross was once talking about another consulting firm that would only hire only from Ivy leagues and big 10 schools, which made me laugh because big 10 conference is really a sports conference (Ivy was also, but now they’re known for academic and professional accomplishments). There is a known feeling of comradery at Michigan that doesn’t exist in other schools, people are passionate about Michigan and the school’s football team that is unparalleled.

About the other post where I interviewed a kid from Ross and another girl from Stern. The girl from Stern was definitely not prepared and the guy from Ross came in super prepared. While it wasn’t just my decision, an interview panel decision that we thought that the stern girl could be trained but the Ross kid came with a lot of attitude which wasn’t healthy. Now I think that was a one off case... so let that interview example not be a reason for Stern over Ross
 
On a separate note, if you do have that kind of money to spend, apply to Harvard or Wharton-that would definitely be better than this Ross vs Stern debate

Posted from my mobile device

mba2020throwaway · Answer

JohnJohnJ,

I very much appreciate your insight. Frankly my profile is not strong enough to get into HSW; tried my hand at Booth but got rejected with no interview. I am grateful to have been accepted by these schools and am going to stick to deciding between them.

You raise a good point about the alums coming in to help with case prep. I was under the impression that 2Ys would be doing the majority of assistance with case interviews but I can see how NYC office alums could be a great benefit compared to Detroit office alums.

Really the main thing I'm worried about at Stern is it being a commuter school and me trying to fit in with banker bros when I don't drink. I'm an introvert but will still go out of my way to hang out with people if they're going out to bars, but would very much like to find people that like to stay in and chill/play board games. I'm sure that won't be the case at all if I go there but just wanted to get my thoughts out there and see what people think.

JohnJohnJ · Answer

Again, I don’t go by rankings - so my two cents, Booth is only marginally better than the other schools and that too at only consulting. So don’t kick yourself.

Now, commuter school and banker bro’s. Given that I did not go to Stern, so from my understanding - the last couple of years Stern has changed from being a banking school to being a consulting school (it’s definitely not a Tuck or a Darden).

Commuter school-its New York City, everybody is a commuter in NYC, you can live in the village... so you’ll have to suck it up and use the subway else pay for the tiny apartments around (I have a bicycle). New York City has a lot of diversity and you’ll make friends here... New York City is where most businesses are set up, so makes sense to network with the locals here and non locals in NYC

Also, given the large population of the city, you’ll find your cult members who don’t drink and like board games, introverts and... You won’t be stuck with a bunch of people you hate, you’ll get a chance to meet many people.

While you’re an introvert, professors won’t go easy on you if you don’t participate in school-so you’ll have to part take in case discussions, projects and be a team player

Posted from my mobile device

mba2020throwaway · Answer

Thanks again JohnJohnJ,

Initially I was 80:20 Ross to Stern but someone posted on reddit that MBB placements at Stern were higher than Ross for 2018 and considering everything that has been mentioned in this thread, I think I'm on the fence again. Gonna reach out to current students and see how they enjoy their programs.

Stern did send me a ss straw so that might push me more towards them.. /s

JohnJohnJ · Answer

What’s a ss straw?

Posted from my mobile device

mba2020throwaway · Answer

A reusable stainless steel straw

JohnJohnJ · Answer

Are you kidding? Or is that what they give when they send you an acceptance letter?

Posted from my mobile device

mba2020throwaway · Answer

Nah not kidding but it was sent out by the student body co-president's so nothing official I don't think.

Stern ($$) vs Ross

Stern ($$) vs Ross

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