GMAT 770. Should I retake GMAT?

Question

Hi everyone.

I will clear one thing early on. I KNOW THAT 770 IS AN INCREDIBLE SCORE. Just hear me out!

I am an Indian Engineer (senior undergrad at one of the older IITs in India) and do have a somewhat balanced profile. Before diving into the specifics, I will clearly express my goal first. I plan to win a deferred MBA admit at M7 schools (strongly prefer HSW) in the US and being part of a highly competitive pool, I feel that this score may not be enough. An important aspect of my test day experience that I think is relevant is that I was sure that I would have got a higher score on my GMAT if I had not fallen sick the previous day (Though a minor impact, it affected my initial half of the Verbal section). My post-MBA goal is to further my career in Finance (specifics undecided) while continuing to DO GOOD through Not-for-Profits.

Profile: 
 GMAT: 770 (Q51 V42 IR8) 
 CGPA: 8.35 (Top 10% of class) 
 Placed at one of the top US banks in their Retail Banking division as a Graduate Management Associate (PPO after a successful internship) 
 Foreign Research Internship at a Top 80 BSchool. Co-authored a management research paper with professors from a top 80 BSchool that won the highest award at a top management conference (IF>7). 
 Internship with India's Largest Private Bank as a Credit Risk Analyst (2020) 
 Internship with a global bank as a graduate management associate in retail banking (2020 - PPO accepted) 
 Plan to clear CFA Level 1 before the application deadline 
 Part of a global student community (5000+ students, 20+ countries). Graduated in 2020 with a diploma in leadership & Consulting. Attended a sponsored world leadership seminar in the UK (invite only - the top 2-3 students from each country) 
 Country Leader of one of the largest national NGOs (founded in India around 1982) for a couple of years. Involved in leading 5000+ volunteers across the country. Responsible for enrolling over 3000+ students for a specific initiative; taught underprivileged children in over 10 cities; distributed a million food packets during the 2020 pandemic  
 Planning to launch my own NGO to support underprivileged children by imparting them free education (likely to materialise before the application deadline) 
 Founder of a registered startup in the planning stage (unlikely to materialise before the application deadlines) 
 Few government research scholarships, multiple national case comp winner awards 
 Elected secretary of the institute representing 450+ students and leading a three-tier team

AndyDufresne · Answer

I think given your stats...just wait, hear me out. You might not stand a chance at the schools you're aiming for! Yes, you heard it right. Sorry for the harsh truth

I would advice you to give one more shot at the GMAT aiming for 800 so that you can apply confidently at any school of your preference. 770 for an Indian Male is too cliche. Anybody can get that score so what would really differentiate you from others is a perfect GMAT score. An 800 vs a 770 can be a game changer. It might mean either going to H/W/S or settling down for a rank50 school (with due respect). Adcoms are looking for every possible reason to reject you and given that a lot of people from older IITs and 770 GMAT and top-notch banking experience and decent non-profit exposure will be applying to these schools, you might not stand a chance even for an interview at these schools. ....and on a less sarcastic note: Take that 770, celebrate and apply to any school you're aiming for. There's a very very rare chance that a clone of your profile with a higher GMAT score will also apply in the same round, to same school and you get rejected because of a lower score. Schools need score above a certain threshold and beyond that, numerous other factors play a more important role rather than just a 3-digit number. If I would have been in your place, I would rather focus on expediting all those things which might get completed sometime after the applications; getting stellar recommendations; and enjoying life outside of the professional sphere. Congrats on the score and do let us know what you ended up making your mind about.

GMATaxe001 · Answer

Hahahaha....

Hahahahahahahahaha.....

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaah

Scaring us on haloweeen eh?

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searchmaster · Answer

Thank you for your kind replies people.

I am sure you may think that I am some crazy dude who knows **** about how adcoms work.....

I know of at least 7-8 people in my personal network who have crazy profiles probably better than mine. A guy who heads the e-cell with a higher CG and a Harvard internship, a gal who has a 9.6 CGPA from IIT Bombay and got placed at the same bank I have, etc. All of them will surely hit or breach the 770-mark on GMAT. INDIA is competitive as helll.....I did almost no prep for Quant and still scored a Q51 (as I am sure 60-70% of people from my institute will). All of the above is just to give you some background to answer my question better and avoid sarcastic answers.

That being said, I am aware that my profile is a really competitive one for the traditional pool of MBA applicants but request you to check the stats for the deferred programmes. HSW hands out deferred admits to probably around 10-12 Indian students in total! (my personal network surely does not even scratch the surface of the applicant pool).

Now, after knowing where I stand, I request you to help me here. Are you sure that I should not reattempt after a month and let go a 50-50 chance of getting a higher GMAT score? How will it look for the adcomm if I retake the GMAT and get a higher score? Will they understand that not performing up to one's potential is reason enough to reappear or will they call me a crazy guy?

Please give a "qualified" (well-researched and understanding) non-sarcastic opinion looking at things from my perspective. Please cite the reasons as well. I am sure a question such as this pops up in quite a few people's mind in the Indian deferred MBA applicant pool.

redparrot · Answer

You're trolling right? There's only been a few people in history who have ever gotten an 800 so it's pretty ballsy to say you might have gotten that if you didn't get sick. Your time is much better spent working on other parts of your application.

searchmaster · Answer

"might" essentially means that there was a possibility bud. I did go on to say a 50-50 chance at getting a "higher" than 770 score 
. Btw, I did score a V51 Q51 on an official GMAT prep mock and above 770 in multiple official mocks. Also, my argument is based on the test day experience as I did feel really pathetic during the first half of the verbal section. "Maybe" a second chance could improve my score is all I said.

I don't know whether "qualified" people will answer the question rather than challenging my argument. Pls assume the info given to be true. I have nothing to gain from lying and everything to gain from getting a helpful reply.

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bb · Answer

Love the topic. 😂
Sorry I did not read past the first sentence. No you do not need to retake it. I doubt there is any value in getting 780 or 790 or 800. The top five or 10 schools will not be impressed with your score. I do not think it is true, but for a while there was a rumor that Stanford had a rule to reject 800 perfect scores. I don’t think it’s true but it kind of illustrates the point that they weren’t after the scores. I think 790 or 800 be a more catchy score but it can also put you into a position of being too score focused and not well rounded.

I think the best use of your time and money probably be working on the applications at this point...

PS. We do provide an option for you to verify your score through the GMAT Club system if it’s online or as soon as it becomes reportable if you took it at the test center.

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bb · Answer

I have actually read your post now. Hi I am not sure that you will be able to clear the CFA because I think it got postponed but level one is usually not a and accomplishment or a big value add unless it fits your story well and it shows your progression but if your story is sustainability or technology and you suddenly clear CFA, it will probably hurt you rather than help you. It is important that your application is focused and purposeful.

Here’s a link to verify your score so nobody has any questions. https://gmatclub.com/forum/ucp.php?i=280

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bb · Answer

Historically per GMAC, about 50 people per year get the 800 score. This year we had a few posts. The last one was from a month ago: https://gmatclub.com/forum/success-form ... 34869.html

searchmaster · Answer

Hi  bb ,

Thank you for the response. I hope you stand by your advice not to reappear for GMAT after reading my posts.

CFA is scheduled for Feb 20th 2021 now. Since it will be held online, I am banking on the probability of the results being published within a month (a few weeks before most deferred MBA deadlines).

I want to experience entrepreneurship once, create a solid career path in finance, and run a not-for-profit part-time. I think CFA fits right into my plan as I want to have a bit stronger foundation in finance before starting my role at a bank. It also serves as a good theoretical transition from my Civil Engineering background to finance. What is your opinion about the same?

Do you think clearing a part/level (out of two) of the Chartered Management Accountant (CMA) certification help showing this engineering to finance the transition to the adcom as well? (not super enthusiastic about gaining another certification over and above a CFA but have got ample of time to clear the part that overlaps with the first level of CFA).

I am a final year undergrad and have enough time to pursue multiple things. I guess my recommendations are almost sorted as well. (department chair from a top foreign Bschool and the HOD of my dept/ banking intern supervisor).

You are absolutely correct in arriving at the incoherence in my profile. I honestly have been exploring my interests resulting in all sorts of "random" experiences - organization Behaviour & leadership research intern, consulting projects, finance intern & post-undergrad job, social work, entrepreneurship, leadership roles in college, and business plan competitions. I recently concluded that I want to continue with a professional career in finance, have a short stint at entrepreneurship someday, and continue with a life-long effort to try and have some impact on the underprivileged children in my country.

Any advice is most welcome and much appreciated.

unraveled · Answer

The profile you have is envious to anyone, even for 2+2 applicants. I can't say whether 770 is enough or not but if you feel so that it's not, you should appear again - also as you have tangible reasons. 
First of all, congratulations for a fantastic score and for being early with your ultimate goals..!! 
Even if you have already done so, do research about the GMAT score from Indian Male Engineer pool. Check eligibility for each of H/S/W, I'm sure it will vary, thus would your applications and approach towards that, at least timeline-wise(for precise dates). Get in touch with older applicants who are about to start their MBA journey after applying for 2+2. 
What would finally matter is whether you are not able to write an application, encapsulating every aspect of your profile smoothly - doesn't matter if its with 770 or 800.It's good that you are exploring your goals and kind of sorted on them. If you can transition between everything you are going to mention, you are go to go right away with 770.
The only thing that can go wrong here is if your application is misunderstood by schools that you are not sure of goal yet, since you are young and that may happen with 800 as well. If you can negate this situation then go ahead.

Lastly, your last post suggests that you should rather seek profile evaluation. Thus, post your query on respective threads/forums.

ScottTargetTestPrep · Answer

Hi searchmaster,

As has been said you are pretty set with 770, so just enjoy the win!! Good luck with things moving forward.

RCCRSC · Answer

At the risk of sounding rude, it seems that you are either trolling or showing off. Do you really think that the peeps here can forecast your chances of getting something as specific as a deferred H/S/W admit? And are you really that confident you can cross a 770 after a retake?

Posted from my mobile device

Posted from my mobile device

Lazybum · Answer

the average for indian engineers is high. 730-780 is range from what i heard disclosed by gmatclub youtube video interviews previously with some adcoms. 
if you can get a 780 or 790, keep trying. But prioritize your applications. The higher the score, the more likely you will get in. This is a fact, but the reward vs the investment is something you need to be careful to weigh. Your application, the better it is, the more you will likely to get in as well.

GMATaxe001 · Answer

If I were an adcom and you had an attitude like this _____________

Complete the argument by yourself

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searchmaster · Answer

Thank you everyone for your helpful replies.

GMATaxe001 
Luckily you aren't a part of the adcomm.. I did say that most people won't understand my viewpoint and think of this as an egoistic attempt to show off. Stated in this way, the argument reveals examples of leap.....😂

I got a lot of good insights from a few responses here and am grateful to each one of you for helping me out. 🙏🙏
Appreciate the efforts☺️

bb  GMATClub is the single most effective source there is for GMAT Test takers and thank you for saving students from spending hundreds of dollars on paid prep resources.

P.S. I did not spend a single dollar on any unofficial resources thanks to GMATClub.

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GMATaxe001 · Answer

searchmaster , that was on a lighter note.

What was your prep strategy though and How exactly did you utilize Gmat club?

Posted from my mobile device

searchmaster · Answer

GMATaxe001

I gave my first official mock after simply reviewing the rules of the exam and the pattern. Scored a 690 (Q51 V31 IR7).
Realised do not need much Quant or IR practice and focused entirely on Verbal.
Started off by reading all the MGMAT books and solving topic-wise questions on GMATClub (around 50-100 per topic)
Gave a Kaplan Test (scored 660) and MGMAT Test (scored 680ish) - messed up verbal real bad
Extremely disheartened.....decided not to give any mock for a month and re-read the MGMAT, solved entire OG13 (Verbal sections only)
Official Mock 2 - 770 (Q51 V44) - somewhere in early September
Felt much better and decided to keep at it.....solved OG2020 (verbal entirely)
Official Mock 3 - 750 (Q51 V40) - two weeks after Mock #2
Disheartened as I started messing up verbal again.....this is when I got a free subscription to GMATClub Tests
Gave multiple CATs (all 9 Verbal Tests) and found them to be a mind-blowing resource. The Quant Tests were particularly apt for my prep level as I found them to be tougher than any other tests out there
Official Mock 4 - 770 (Q50 V46) - realised that exam day mindset can mess up my Quant (also realised I can get a 780+ score)
Solved OG Advanced (Verbal & Quant); Solved multiple GMATClub Quant Tests
Official Mock 5 - 750 (Q49 V42) - this is an outlier as I had a terrible fight the day before and slept less than a couple of hours
Gave 4 Kaplan Tests (Scored around 750 in all of them - much tougher scoring than the official mocks)
I went for a two week condensed prep regime before my exam day. 66% time devoted to verbal and the rest to Quant. 
Official Mock 6 - 800 (Q51 V51 IR8) - 2 days before the exam (no-repeat questions or anything as such)
Read the Chinese Burned AWA technique, spent the next day watching movies & ordered some spicy curry
Exam Day morning - extreme stomach ache, my blood pressure went through the roof, messed up the first 20 mins of my Verbal and then regained my conscious (in the first part, spent 8 minutes reading a 50 line RC and unable to comprehend anything because of the pain)

A few tips:
1. Always take all your tests exactly replicating the testing conditions. I gave around 10-12 mocks and took each one of them around the official exam time (8 am for me). This worked out really well for me. I even went to the extent of wearing the exact same clothes I was planning to wear on the exam day and the shoes I had picked out. (I am a bit superstitious about these things)
2. Gauge your prep level well in each section and work really hard on the weaker ones. DO NOT forget about your strengths and refocus on them closer to the exam date
3. Watch a few youtube videos. I would recommend the playlist by Wizako for verbal (around 28 short videos). I think a few tips and tricks from Erika (PrepScholar GMAT) helped a lot.
4. Stop giving mocks when you know you won't be able to improve your score much. Sit down and work hard at improving the weaker sections first.

Lazybum · Answer

thanks for this break down this is very helpful!!
How did you tackle SC questions? I find it very hard to read for meaning and identify the errors at the same time. 
When you find an error, what did you do to make sure you don't make it again?
did you do 50-100 easy / med / hard questions from gmatclub per topic for all of verbal and quant ? How many questions is that.
Did the quant and verbal gmatclub tests overlap with what you already did from gmatclub?
I thought max score for mock exams were 790, i think someone confirmed this before?

searchmaster · Answer

I too was unable to make any progress with SC in the first month of my prep. I realised with time that GMAT SC is very repetitive and similar type of questions keep on repeating testing similar concepts. I think solving around 100 questions of mixed difficultt per topic did help a lot (a game changer for sure). I did try to solve the incorrect questions using GMATClub error log but got bored and dropped the idea a few weeks into my prep.

I did not find significant overlap in the verbal sections. It is possible that a gap in prepping from gmatclub may have left this impression. I did focus on the OG material for quite some time in the middle. Btw I forgot to mention that I solved the entire Verbal Review as well😅

I am so sorry....you are right and I should have clarified. I did get a 790 but got a Q51V51. I safely assumed (and still do) that this essentially meant an 800 on that mock.

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