Yale SOM 2012 - Calling All Applicants (Class of 2014)

Thank you for your reply! I know exactly what you mean.

I've been wondering something about international applicants. How do adcoms really evaluate them? INSEAD aside, when I look through the adcom team members 99% of the time they are very regional, if not local, and at least in their profile don't really list international experience. How effective are they at assessing the potential of an international applicant and the value of their application in terms of the meaning of their accomplishments at their own location, if the team members don't have much exposure?

Actually the reason I felt my interviewer and I didn't get along very well is exactly because I asked why SOM was so regional. I come from a country that traditionally has had a very difficult interaction with the US and I wanted to know how integrated international students were to local ones. She, a local girl, basically said that if I ever have issues with locals it is because I am not doing my best at making them feel comfortable around me.

Coming from LatinAmerica as well and having done my fair share of travelling and living around the world, I am a bit speechless. That is not an answer I would have expected there and is certainly not what I perceived from graduates I've spoken to.

Did you complete your education in LA and is your work experience in the region as well? I'm asking because I am wondering how do you feel universities have been able to assess it.

Whoa whoa whoa! I am very sorry and surprised to hear about those experiences. I am not going to condone the students that were that callous and dismissive of your questions and concerns, but I just want to say that that has NOT been my experience with anyone that I’ve met at Yale. Sure – there were a couple of weirdos, (I'm sure some would count me in this group), but far fewer than I found at other schools. I’ve also got to say, with the amount of pre-program socializing that we’ve been doing, I’ve met approximately 70+ other members of my incoming class, and I’ve got to say that soft skills are not going to be a problem, and I would be happy to call 99% of them friends … this after only knowing them for 3-4 months.

This isn’t to discount your gut feeling. I had weird feelings at other schools, and it turns out that it was because the people that I met rubbed me the wrong way. I took this as an indication of how I would feel when I got to campus. So I ultimately chose the school with the classmates I felt I could bond with best over two years, (amongst other considerations, but this one was highest). After all, your MBA will be at least 50% about the network you make, and you should find the group of people that make you feel best. Sad to hear that it may not be Yale, but please know that it’s not completely indicative of what everyone’s experience of the school is.

thats right. at INSEAD for example, the admission committee is composed of 10 alumni and 10 INSEAD staff (professors, admission directors, and even admission coordinator). and admission committee is truly multinational and multicultural..they know exactly what does (extracurricular) mean in different countries? they know the differences between cultures when it comes to personal achievements..and so on..at Yale, I noticed the admission staff are very familiar with the american applicants and they got deeper in talking with them about their career plans and from where do they come and where did their undergraduates, extracurricular activities..families..and all these staff! but as an international I felt i am really very very strange within them..PLEASE note..the students and staff were nice..BUT I am talking about the quality of a top tier MBA folks..there are things beyond good in college and test scores..I felt that I will not be benefiting from those students in an international scale..they will be good friends, but when it comes to global leader in multinational company, I really feel they need much preparation, experiences, and to be aware of the others.. at Duke fuqua, the white american I met there are on par with the international students in term of global awareness and they know many things about businesses, cultures, countries, and people. again, Yale SOM need more time and new strategy to be on par with the other top programs ..e.g.M7 schools, and INSEAD. in fact, they have at Yale the highest potential to be so; brands, money, proximity to NYC, new dean, every thing, except the gloomy new haven , Please bear n mind, this is not to underestimate yale som or its students as it is just my experience and I wish for this institution to have the right people in the admission panel to help them attracting best students..the current admission people are not on the same level as Yale name! I wish Mr Ted read this and address this issue very soon..

I don't think there's any question that Yale's not as international as INSEAD. Not many MBA programs are, if any at all. I can't comment on Duke, as I know very little about it, but I don't think that MBA programs should only be judged solely by how internationally aware their students already are. Is INSEAD a more 'international' school than, say, Harvard? Probably. That alone doesn't necessarily make it better.

I'm international as well, and had a great interview experience. My interviewer was forthcoming about not knowing much about my country and they asked what felt like genuine questions about it. That didn't bother much - I know very little about the part of the US that they're from - and in fact I think that made for a more mutually enriching conversation. I don't know if my interviewer would have been able to point my country out on a map, but to be honest, despite the fact that I've lived, worked, and traveled in/to many countries, there are plenty that I wouldn't be able to point out on a map either. But if that makes me interesting to my interviewer and them interesting to me, I'm cool with it.

From memory, I think that Yale SOM's international student population is reasonably sizeable, is it not? So I look forward to meeting people from all over the world and, in turn, learning about lots of different cultures that I know very little about. I'm not that concerned about a less international adcomm not being able to evaluate international experience. To a certain extent, an interesting profile is an interesting profile, and at the very least the onus should be on the applicant to show that they're qualified through their essays and interviews, right? The adcom have been admitting international applicants for years, and have presumably been observing how successful those students ended up being during and after their studies. Surely they'd pick up a thing or two from that.

It also makes some sense that there is a northeastern emphasis at Yale. People often choose the location of their schools because it's in a general geography where they want to live after their MBA. Many people go to Stanford because they are (or want to be) on the west coast. People might choose Columbia in part because they are (or want to be) in New York. LBS, because of London. INSEAD is an exception, but surely most schools have some degree of regional emphasis by being, at least in part, a product of their geography. I wouldn't choose Yale if I really wanted to meet people from the UK. I'd go to the UK for that.

I suppose these things are quite hit or miss, particularly when they're done by second year students or alumni. It does seem like INSEAD, and evidently Duke, are better fits for you. For me, on the other hand, I don't really care how many credit hours you need to fulfill an MBA, and I'm more excited at the prospect of taking courses with Shiller than I am concerned with the fact that there are other students at Yale who don't care enough to know if he teaches there.

An MBA program does ultimately have to feel right for you, and you unfortunately have to judge them based on interactions with a very small sample of people that often inadequately represent an entire school. My case is particularly anecdotal. I interviewed over Skype, so I literally only interacted with 1 person from the school. Either way, I was fortunate, got a good vibe, and am really excited about the prospect of going to Yale.

Fingers crossed for Thursday. Good luck to all who are still hanging in there!

Thank you for your reply! I know exactly what you mean.

I've been wondering something about international applicants. How do adcoms really evaluate them? INSEAD aside, when I look through the adcom team members 99% of the time they are very regional, if not local, and at least in their profile don't really list international experience. How effective are they at assessing the potential of an international applicant and the value of their application in terms of the meaning of their accomplishments at their own location, if the team members don't have much exposure?[/quote]
thats right. at INSEAD for example, the admission committee is composed of 10 alumni and 10 INSEAD staff (professors, admission directors, and even admission coordinator). and admission committee is truly multinational and multicultural..they know exactly what does (extracurricular) mean in different countries? they know the differences between cultures when it comes to personal achievements..and so on..at Yale, I noticed the admission staff are very familiar with the american applicants and they got deeper in talking with them about their career plans and from where do they come and where did their undergraduates, extracurricular activities..families..and all these staff! but as an international I felt i am really very very strange within them..PLEASE note..the students and staff were nice..BUT I am talking about the quality of a top tier MBA folks..there are things beyond good in college and test scores..I felt that I will not be benefiting from those students in an international scale..they will be good friends, but when it comes to global leader in multinational company, I really feel they need much preparation, experiences, and to be aware of the others.. at Duke fuqua, the white american I met there are on par with the international students in term of global awareness and they know many things about businesses, cultures, countries, and people. again, Yale SOM need more time and new strategy to be on par with the other top programs ..e.g.M7 schools, and INSEAD. in fact, they have at Yale the highest potential to be so; brands, money, proximity to NYC, new dean, every thing, except the gloomy new haven , Please bear n mind, this is not to underestimate yale som or its students as it is just my experience and I wish for this institution to have the right people in the admission panel to help them attracting best students..the current admission people are not on the same level as Yale name! I wish Mr Ted read this and address this issue very soon..[/quote]

I don't think there's any question that Yale's not as international as INSEAD.![/quote]
Look, you like Yale, you are satisfied with it, it is OK no bother. we are talking about comparison with other TOP tier programs. so far yale som is a second tier by all measures; placements, yield results, the more importantly, students quality. most (if not all) MBA students want to benefit from the degree immediately after they graduate, the prospect of Yale MBA is still away behind. No one from the major MBB, nor IBs do recruit on the campus despite being very close to NYC!! go to Bain, Mackinsey, or Goldman Sachs sites and look if they have dedicated page for Yale SOM. comparing Yale with INSEAD is unfair at all. INSEAD is comparable only with M7 schools and particularly with HWS. again, again, and again, this is NOT to underestimate Yale, it is our observation and we hope the admission committee address this soon! btw, you need a HR guy in the admission management NOT a Lawyer! REMEMBER , when BW put yale 24, this was due to the recruiters views and students satisfaction! a median salary of 100k with the highest of 215k isn't the figures of a top school! you have the right to be happy with Yale, but when it comes to a very elite, top tier, and highly sought-after an MBA programs, NO Yale need at least 5 to 10 years, with increasing the class size, with placing more grads into the white shoe firms!!! some say, Yale has a business school???!!!! and they are right it is the very best undergrad, the very best Law, but MBA, sorry, not yet, similar to Harvard in engineering!!! they aren't comparable even with UIUC!! professional people never can't be taken by the brand!!!
enjoy the coffee in atticus cafe

INSEAD – Yes it is a completely different situation

Yale – I’m not trying to put it down, but I would like to understand the criteria on international applicants who have not studied or work in the US and the adcom’s ability to asses them, in general not just in Yale.
Overall, I like the nature of Yale very much, which is why I applied. The quality of the education is good, there is no question about that, but what personally attracted me to it were the holistic approach to business education and the “diverse” backgrounds promoted by them, especially in terms of social responsibility. So you can safely assume I’m not crazy about most rankings.

Fit – Yes, fully agree, everywhere it is a question of a fit. Nobody is going to fit everywhere.

International aware students - Yes it is an important criteria in the 21st century, especially for most people who have international experience and know that they will benefit from being with like minded people in that sense. Going from an international environment to an insular one is not a step forward.

Not knowing about my country – It’s not really a question of whether it can bother a person or not, as for many of us it happens all the time. But when you are going to invest time and money in an MBA program, it is a question of “how can you asses my profile if you cannot put it into context”, “how good of a job can your institution do at providing me with a global business perspective (which EVERY program is promoting now) if my first impression through the adcom does not follow that line?”

Being Interesting – I feel selection should be beyond that.

I’ll try to use an example from my own work experience doing international recruitment to explain my concern. Without discussing quality of the programs, there are countries were Masters and PhDs are “easily” accessible and are a must in order to secure a good position. On the other hand there are countries in which these types of programs are not the norm, neither in terms of availability nor in terms of job market demands. If I did not know this, I would not be able to assess sufficiently the context that helps define:

a) The motivations and drive to pursue a graduate degree
b) The merit that obtaining a graduate degree in different circumstances

Both things which are crucial in evaluating a candidate, whether for a job or an educational program. And I have done both. Same applies to understanding different job markets, impact of a position, or simply academic selection. To be honest it’s not the kind of thing that you can show in an application or define in most interviews, especially when there is generally not enough time or character count for it. Neither is it the kind of thing you can learn from reading development or economical indexes.

Hence my question about international selection.

Personally I guess it’s a ding for me, because I haven’t heard from them. I'm obviously not happy about it, but I am not speaking out of spite. I honestly just want to learn how this aspect works.

Have fun at Duke!

Please read my posts. At no point at all have I bashed Yale and that was clear to other readers.

- I asked about how adcoms determine international applications, not just in Yale, based on the composition of their teams.
- I said to keep INSEAD aside when considering this, because they have a different structure.
- Although I was apalled at the frowning in the interview, I clearly stated that my experience with Yale graduates had been completely different.
- I explained why I like Yale.
- I tried to support my case for asking how do adcoms work on international applications based on my work experience and why I think it's important.

I apologize for asking how things work and that evidently the conversation got sidetracked. I might have misinterpreted the purpose of the forum.

However I don't appreciate to be addressed in this tone, especially when I have been respectful and certainly did not bash anyone or anything.

oppss !!! we're sorry ! we didn't know you were around !!

I highly doubt that he got into any of those schools.

change Topic.!

Have the Dings started to arrive ? Looks like a Ding for me . - No call so far me, even though Yale Claims that Interviews are given until the last day of admission decision, which is a few days away.

I agree with one other poster here - that an MBA program has also to be ranked based on an MBA applicant's user experience.

Best, y'all
R

Thanks for the subject change - civility is more productive!

The Dings will probably go out on the day-of. For other rounds, nearly all of the admits were calls placed on the day-of, with the Ding/Waitlist e-mails coming at the end of business. In one or two cases, there were interview invites that went to remaining applicants on the day-of, but I'm not sure these would happen for Round 3.

Hope this is helpful!

I think there might be only a few spots open for Round 3. At the moment there are 224 students (227 if you count the admins) in the Yale 2014 FB group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/260001377382516/). Looking at the class profile for the last two years 228 and 231 people enrolled at Yale in 2011 and 2010, respectively. So around 4 to 7 spots open. It is highly possible that not all 224 students in the group mwill actually enroll at SOM, but the FB group indicates that there will be only a few of us being accepted on Thursday.

That being said, best of luck to everyone! I hope that you (and I) receive admit calls!

another sweet Yale SOM shoutout!!!

(actually not at all relevant, but still strangely cool to me, look at Juror 7)...

https://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/79324 ... es-4-males

Thanks for "a Ray of Hope".. I wish I get the last seat, in the last second.

R