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A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discou

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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Nov 2013, 09:01
You're right about the horns part. However, the ambiguity here is not whether the reference is to horns but whose horns. Are the tourists or the rhinoceroses having horns removed?

It seems obvious given what we know about tourists and rhinos generally, but it's not clear from the structure of the sentence.
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New post 12 Nov 2013, 15:10
Hi there,

Thanks for posting your query here. :-)

As the previous poster has pointed out, 'their' does not refer to 'horns', but to either tourists or rhinoceroses. Although common sense may tell us that the rhinoceroses are more likely to have horns than the tourists are, the sentence should contain no ambiguity.

Also, note that when a pronoun begins a clause, it usually refers to the subject of the previous clause. In this case, 'tourists' is the subject of the preceding clause. This only worsens the problem in this option, since 'their' seems to be pointing to 'tourists'.

I hope this helps to clarify your doubt!

Regards,
Meghna
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discou  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Feb 2014, 08:24
diehard4 wrote:
21. A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are trimmed.
(A) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are
(B) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one once their horns are
(C) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns have been
(D) if tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns are
(E) if tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one after the animals’ horns have been




As per OG The verb following after should
be the present-perfect have been trimmed to reflect
that the trimming must occur before the tourists
arrive.


But already the time maker after is there, so why is it necessary to use present perfect tense here

Also what is the basic difference in using whether and if? When to use if and when to use whether?
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discou  [#permalink]

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New post 30 Mar 2014, 18:21
I'm trying to understand significance and correctness of use of "one" in phrase "to see one after the animals' horns have been trimmed" in choice E. Sure the choice E don't sound as precise as option C. But what does "one" imply? It seems choice E says that tourists will continue to visit parks to see a rhinoceros (one of the many rhinoceroses) once the animals horns are trimmed. The phrase is generally used in spoken english. Is it correct?
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discou  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Apr 2014, 13:32
dipsy001 wrote:
I'm trying to understand significance and correctness of use of "one" in phrase "to see one after the animals' horns have been trimmed" in choice E. Sure the choice E don't sound as precise as option C. But what does "one" imply? It seems choice E says that tourists will continue to visit parks to see a rhinoceros (one of the many rhinoceroses) once the animals horns are trimmed. The phrase is generally used in spoken english. Is it correct?


Dear @dipsy001,

Thank you for posting this question. I believe you can arrive at the answer on your own. Just pay close attention to the original sentence.

A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are trimmed.

Is the original sentence saying that the tourists will see 1 rhino or many rhinos in general?

Now look at your understanding of choice E (which by the way is correct!!). Do you think the two match?

Thus without getting into the grammatical nuances, you can eliminate choice E on the account of meaning shift from the original sentence :)

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Payal
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discou  [#permalink]

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New post 21 Jul 2014, 02:50
Is this grammatically correct ?

See those two girls. Helen is the one on the left.
here one should refer to girl.
but girl is not mentioned anywhere in the sentence.But girls is mentioned.

ravi's car broke down,so he walked back to the hotel.

here he has no referent.As ravi's car is mentioned but ravi is not mentioned.

please help.
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New post 21 Jul 2014, 12:40
SidKaria wrote:
Is this grammatically correct ?

See those two girls. Helen is the one on the left.
here one should refer to girl.
but girl is not mentioned anywhere in the sentence.But girls is mentioned.

ravi's car broke down,so he walked back to the hotel.

here he has no referent.As ravi's car is mentioned but ravi is not mentioned.

please help.


Hi Sid,

Thanks for posting your doubt here. :-)

Although the example that you have provided is way too colloquial for GMAT, your understanding of the usage of pronoun in this one is correct. When used as a pronoun, "one" like any other pronoun must have a clear antecedent and must also agree in number with its antecedent. Hence, example one does not stand.

Your analysis of the second example is also correct. "he" must refer to "Ravi". But there is no mention of "Ravi" in the sentence. "Ravi's" acts as an adjective and hence pronoun "he" cannot refer to that entity.

Hope this helps. :-)
Thanks.
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discou  [#permalink]

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New post 22 Jul 2014, 22:49
SidKaria wrote:
ravi's car broke down,so he walked back to the hotel.

here he has no referent.As ravi's car is mentioned but ravi is not mentioned.

On a separate note, it is interesting to note that there are at least a couple of examples in OG, where the pronoun in question does not have any direct referent, but still GMAT considers it acceptable. So, GMAT seems to be permissive in this regard.

#109, OG-13:

Among the objects found in the excavated temple were small terra-cotta effigies left by supplicants who were either asking the goddess Bona Dea's aid in healing physical and mental ills or thanking her for such help.

This is the correct answer, though there is no explicit referent of her. The silver lining is that all 5 answer choices use her, so you don't really have to choose an option based on this.
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses  [#permalink]

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New post 08 Dec 2015, 07:54
Can someone please explain, how come "their" is ambiguous in option B ?
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New post 02 Nov 2016, 19:14
Hi experts,

in this case, I totally got that perfect past "have been trimmed" reveals the earlier action than visit.
out of curiosity, Is the present tense "are" , which is earlier than future tense " will visit" , valid in A if focus on only tense ?( please point out which one is better , only tense or tense only :) )

I have another correct present - future sentence from MANHATTAN SC guide P129.
The scientist BELIEVES that the machine WILL BE wonderful.
here, BELIEVES is present tense, and WILL BE is future tense.

genuinely want your confirmation.

have a nice day
>_~
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New post 11 Nov 2016, 17:32
zoezhuyan wrote:
Hi experts,

in this case, I totally got that perfect past "have been trimmed" reveals the earlier action than visit.
out of curiosity, Is the present tense "are" , which is earlier than future tense " will visit" , valid in A if focus on only tense ?( please point out which one is better , only tense or tense only :) )

I have another correct present - future sentence from MANHATTAN SC guide P129.
The scientist BELIEVES that the machine WILL BE wonderful.
here, BELIEVES is present tense, and WILL BE is future tense.

genuinely want your confirmation.

have a nice day
>_~

Dear zoezhuyan,

How are you my friend? This is a perceptive question, and I am happy to answer! :-)

Let's ignore (A), which is wrong, and just focus on changing (C), the OA.
original (C): whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals' horns have been trimmed.
modified (C): whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals' horns are trimmed.
Both of these are 100% correct. It might be argued that the first is a little more elegant, a little more nuanced, but that's a stylistic concern. In terms of what would be correct on the GMAT SC, both of these are absolutely flawless.

Either the simple present tense or the present perfect tense or the present progressive tense can be used to indicate an event before the time of any future tense event.

Does all this make sense?

Have a lovely weekend! :-)

Mike :-)
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discou  [#permalink]

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New post 03 May 2017, 07:17
diehard4 wrote:
The Official Guide for GMAT Review 2016

Practice Question
Question No.: 92
Page: 691


A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are trimmed.

(A) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are
(B) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one once their horns are
(C) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns have been
(D) if tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns are
(E) if tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one after the animals’ horns have been


First Glance

The sentence contains a semicolon but the underline is limited only to the second half. DO read the first half, as it will provide context for the intended meaning.

Issues

(1) Meaning, and

You might spot this in the original sentence or via a direct comparison of answers (A) and (B):

(A) tourists will continue to visit parks and see rhinoceroses
(B) tourists will continue to visit parks to see rhinoceroses

The X and Y structure in answer (A) does not require the two parallel portions to have anything to do with one another. Consider this example: tourists will continue to visit the pyramids in Egypt and see the Taj Mahal in India. Tourists will continue to do these two things, but the X and Y portions don't have anything to do with each other.

Similarly, in the original sentence, if the actions visit game parks and see rhinoceroses are connected by the word and, then they are completely separate. This doesn't make logical sense. The tourists visit the parks in order to see the rhinoceroses. Eliminate answers (A) and (D).

(2) Pronoun: theirs; one

Some answers use the pronoun their while others use the animals' instead. Other answers change rhinoceroses to one.

The pronoun their is ambiguous; it could refer to rhinoceroses or tourists. Consider this example: these tourists will travel to foreign countries and meet new people after their visas are approved. Whose visas need to get approved? The tourists, not the new people ─ the tourists are the ones who are traveling.

Because their could refer to tourists (it should refer to rhinoceroses), answer (A) is ambiguous. Answer (B) repeats this error; eliminate both.

Answer (B) and (E) replace rhinoceroses with the pronoun one. First it's ok to use one to refer to a plural noun; this construction just means one of those. One of what, though? Logically, one rhinoceros makes sense, but maybe the question is whether tourists will continue to see poachers after the poachers have been discouraged from killing the rhinos ─ that's also a reasonable interpretation. The word one, then, is ambiguous. Eliminate answer (B) and (E).

(3) Verb: are

A vertical scan of the end of each answer choice reveals a split between present tense are and past perfect have been. Are both acceptable?

Verb tenses convey a time frame for an action and indicate when different actions happen relative to one another. In this sentence, the trimming of the horns must happen before a possible visit by tourists, so the simple present tense is inappropriate. The present perfect have been properly indicates that, at the time of a potential tourist visit, the horns must already have been trimmed. Eliminate answers (A), (B), and (D).

The Correct Answer

Correct answer (C) fixes the initial pronoun error by replacing their with the animals'. Furthermore, the sentence changes the X and Y construction to one with a more logical meaning: the tourists visit parks to see rhinoceroses.

Miscellaneous

Nowadays, whether and if are mostly used interchangeably. Formally, though, whether is used to indicate the meaning whether or not: Tell me whether you plan to go to the movies ─ I want to know whether you do or whether you don't. On the other hand, if is used for if-then (conditional) clauses: If you buy me an ice cream, I'll be happy.

To date, no published official questions have used if in a correct answer choice when the meaning technically matches the word whether. The official answer explanations, however, don't actually mention this issue. If you need to guess, don't pick an answer that uses if when the meaning is really whether or not.
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New post 11 Apr 2018, 03:02
+1 for option C. This question tests you on the use of "if vs whether" and tenses. Choose whether and use present perfect form ! Option C is the winner :)
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New post 12 Apr 2018, 17:55
spetznaz wrote:
+1 for option C. This question tests you on the use of "if vs whether" and tenses. Choose whether and use present perfect form ! Option C is the winner :)


How do you know present perfect is needed here?
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discou  [#permalink]

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New post 17 Apr 2019, 09:10
Thank you GMATNinja for clarifying the "if" vs. "whether" preferences on the GMAT!
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discou  [#permalink]

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New post 20 May 2019, 11:36
daagh wrote:
The difference between ‘have been trimmed’ and ‘are trimmed’ is that trimming is a one –time job and not a daily chore. An event that was done in the past and which or whose effect is still carried through the present will have to be expressed in present perfect, while daily chores will have to be verbed with just present tense. So 'have been trimmed' is the preferred expression


Dear daagh sir,

please help me to understand the difference between animal's horns and animals' horns.

Regards
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New post 20 May 2019, 19:37
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Dear Sonu. Hi!

Addition of apostrophe indicates possession.
Let's say there is a single subject such as a computer. When we want to refer to the cost of the single computer, we say the computer's - I repeat -the computer apostrophe and s. On the other hand, let us say there are two computers - a plural subject-. When we want to refer to the costs of both the computers, we say the computers' costs- I repeat - the computers apostrophe and costs -- There is no need to add another s after the apostrophe.

The situation is different, if you have an irregular form of a plural subject such as men, women, teeth, feet, mice etc etc. We need to add an 's' after the plurals, as in men's, women's, teeth's and so on.
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New post 20 May 2019, 20:13
daagh wrote:
Dear Sonu. Hi!

Addition of apostrophe indicates possession.
Let's say there is a single subject such as a computer. When we want to refer to the cost of the single computer, we say the computer's - I repeat -the computer apostrophe and s. On the other hand, let us say there are two computers - a plural subject-. When we want to refer to the costs of both the computers, we say the computers' costs- I repeat - the computers apostrophe and costs -- There is no need to add another s after the apostrophe.

The situation is different, if you have an irregular form of a plural subject such as men, women, teeth, feet, mice etc etc. We need to add an 's' after the plurals, as in men's, women's, teeth's and so on.



Thank you very much sir for the explanation in details.apostrophe is now clear to me.

Thanks & Regards

Posted from my mobile device
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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discou  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jun 2019, 07:16
GMATNinja wrote:
Quote:
(A) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are

(A) has a couple of subtle little problems. For starters, I don’t think the phrase “…will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses…” is quite right in this case. Grammatically, it’s fine: “visit” and “see” are parallel verbs. Trouble is, that suggests that the two actions are somehow equally weighted, and not necessarily related: tourists visit game parks, and tourists see rhinos, but maybe not at the same time.

So the phrasing in (A) isn't WRONG, exactly, but it’s not ideal: the intent of the sentence is to question whether tourists will continue to visit game parks TO SEE rhinos. And we have that option in some of the other answer choices.

You could also argue that the pronoun “their” is potentially ambiguous. It could refer to the rhinos or the tourists or the poachers, and only the rhinos would make sense, since tourists and poachers rarely trim their own horns. And again, pronoun ambiguity isn’t an absolute rule (more on that in this video), but we’ll have better options in a moment.

If you wanted to be conservative, you could keep (A), but the problems in (A) will be fixed in another answer choice.

Quote:
(B) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one once their horns are

(B) includes the phrase “visit game parks to see [a rhino]…”, and that makes more sense than the parallel structure we saw in (A).

Trouble is, now the pronouns are worse. You could argue that “one” is a little bit ambiguous because it’s so far from “rhinoceroses”, but I can live with that – I don’t think it’s unclear, even if it isn’t awesome. But the “their” is definitely an issue: the nearest plurals are “game parks” and “tourists”, and neither of those are likely to have their horns trimmed. “Their” logically needs to refer to “rhinoceroses”, but that word is a long way from the pronoun now. That’s not cool.

So (B) is out.

Quote:
(C) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns have been

(C) fixes all of the problems and imperfections of (A) and (B). We have “…continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses…”, and that’s better than the parallel version in (A). The pronoun has been completely removed, so now we have “once the animals’ horns have been trimmed” – and that’s clear as a bell.

Let’s keep (C).

Quote:
(D) if tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns are

(D) has the same parallelism problem as (A): “visit game parks and see rhinos” makes less sense than “visit game parks TO see rhinos.” See the explanation for (A) for more on this issue.

The GMAT also tends to frown on the use of “if” in situations like these. The GMAT seems to think that “if” can only be used for “if/then” (conditional) statements, but NOT for situations like this sentence, when the intent is just to indicate that two different alternatives are possible (e.g., visiting vs. not visiting game parks). I think that’s a silly thing for the GMAT to test, but who cares what I think?

The shorter version: if you’re given a choice between “if” and “whether” on the GMAT, then you’ll almost certainly want to choose “whether.”

So (D) is out.

Quote:
(E) if tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one after the animals’ horns have been

The only major problem in (E) is the use of “if.” See (D) for more on that issue.

So (E) is gone, and we’re left with (C).


Hello GMATNinja,

In (B), even if the pronouns are placed farther, isn't (B) more concise when compared to (C)?

If (C) is correct, do we prefer clarity over sentence length?

Thanks,

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Re: A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discou  [#permalink]

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New post 26 Jun 2019, 13:40
A proposal has been made to trim the horns from rhinoceroses to discourage poachers; the question is whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are trimmed.

The first obvious split is between if and whether.
If is used to indicate a condition.
Whether is used to indicate choice between two things
So, eliminate options d and e.

The next split is between the usage of whether .... and or whether ....... to.
Eliminate option a because 'and' is not conveying the meaning properly.
The next split is the usage of pronoun 'their'
'Their' in option b has tourists as its antecedent. So eliminate b
c is the answer.
In c, the pronoun ambiguity is rectified by the usage of animals's horns.
Justification for the usage of have been - The present perfect tense refers to an action that started in the past and has continued into the present.

(A) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses after their horns are

(B) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one once their horns are

(C) whether tourists will continue to visit game parks to see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns have been

(D)iftourists will continue to visit game parks and see rhinoceroses once the animals’ horns are

(E)if tourists will continue to visit game parks to see one after the animals’ horns have been
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