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monkbent
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Admitted to Kellogg Class of 2011 Thread 30 May 2009, 18:46
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OhThatMBA
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Wow - I couldn't disagree more strongly. Eight years = 10% of his life. I think that's more than enough to dedicate to a school. In the end, it's just his job, and if he feels it's time to dedicate more time to himself and his family, more power to him.
That's cool, I can certainly appreciate keeping life in perspective (family vs. job, etc.).
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I can see your point too, and I'll bet he did love the job at the beginning. I just think eight years is a pretty long time for this sort of position. It is almost all fundraising, and that's a tough sell...
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Admitted to Kellogg Class of 2011 Thread 31 May 2009, 10:05
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counting down the days...

just out of curiosity....what is this interview bidding system at Kellogg that the article refers to?

https://www.businessweek.com/bschools/co ... op+stories
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Interview bidding works this way. A company comes to campus and wants to interview 20 people. In the past they got to pick 50% or 10 of those people and the other 10 spots were bid on by students. Winning bids range from 0 to virtually all 800 points, obviously some companies are more popular and some also have very few interview slots. I believe they are going from a 50/50 split to a 70/30 (Close/open) or something like that this coming year. So companies will be selecting more people for interviews than in the past. Companies also will place people on the alternate list and if people drop off you might later get on the closed list.

I wouldnt worry about it now...you got plenty of stuff to worry about before that and its pretty easy. Though historical bids wont be a as accurate if they change the split.
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Admitted to Kellogg Class of 2011 Thread 31 May 2009, 12:23
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Interview bidding works this way. A company comes to campus and wants to interview 20 people. In the past they got to pick 50% or 10 of those people and the other 10 spots were bid on by students. Winning bids range from 0 to virtually all 800 points, obviously some companies are more popular and some also have very few interview slots. I believe they are going from a 50/50 split to a 70/30 (Close/open) or something like that this coming year. So companies will be selecting more people for interviews than in the past. Companies also will place people on the alternate list and if people drop off you might later get on the closed list.

I wouldnt worry about it now...you got plenty of stuff to worry about before that and its pretty easy. Though historical bids wont be a as accurate if they change the split.
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Why the change?

Is that something the school or the companies wanted?

RF
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I think the change is a little bit of both. Students feel they have a better chance of getting an offer if they are on the closed list. Companies want to have more of a say in who they interview.
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riverripper
I think the change is a little bit of both. Students feel they have a better chance of getting an offer if they are on the closed list. Companies want to have more of a say in who they interview.
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Somehow, I'm not so jazzed about that change. We'll see how recruiting plays out, no use in worrying about it yet :)
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isa
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I think the change is a little bit of both. Students feel they have a better chance of getting an offer if they are on the closed list. Companies want to have more of a say in who they interview.

Somehow, I'm not so jazzed about that change. We'll see how recruiting plays out, no use in worrying about it yet :)
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In all honesty - spots were typically under demanded for bidding - so I think the added closed list spots will be useful. Helps recruiters fill out their spots more and gives students more feedback in terms of whether an interview is a waste of their time or not.

I think the biggest help of bidding into interviews is that people who REALLY want to work at a company get the opportunity to bid on. I really don't think bidding onto an interview really helps a ton unless you're very interested in the position.

I left recruiting with 650 out of 800 bid points still left over lol.
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Yeah, I think its an improvement. At times you might really want a company but they might not want you at all...so bidding on is a waste of both your times. Them selecting you knows you already cleared that first hurdle. Some companies will put you on their alternate list and then basically ask you to bid on...had they been able to choose more you would have made it on the closed list.

If you have a sound strategy and network you should have no problem getting on closed lists for a least a fair number of your targets. Then just bid on ones you want. You could bid onto TONS of companies, most go for less than 50 points each...I mean BCG bid for 20 points last year. Consulting companies that have much fewer slots will bid for a lot more though. There are companies like Apple, microsoft, diageo, unilever, and nike that will bid for a lot. Isa, you want HC those don't bid for huge points so even if you dont make closed lists you probably could get 10+ open list interviews.

I think almost all of our peer schools have a much higher split, this probaby came about partially at the request of companies. If you are interviewing 20 people wouldnt you rather get to choose 14 of them instead of only 10? As a student, if you were #12 on their list, wouldn't you want to be selected as one of the 14 rather than being forced to bid on?
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Admitted to Kellogg Class of 2011 Thread 01 Jun 2009, 10:31
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riverripper
Yeah, I think its an improvement. At times you might really want a company but they might not want you at all...so bidding on is a waste of both your times. Them selecting you knows you already cleared that first hurdle. Some companies will put you on their alternate list and then basically ask you to bid on...had they been able to choose more you would have made it on the closed list.

If you have a sound strategy and network you should have no problem getting on closed lists for a least a fair number of your targets. Then just bid on ones you want. You could bid onto TONS of companies, most go for less than 50 points each...I mean BCG bid for 20 points last year. Consulting companies that have much fewer slots will bid for a lot more though. There are companies like Apple, microsoft, diageo, unilever, and nike that will bid for a lot. Isa, you want HC those don't bid for huge points so even if you dont make closed lists you probably could get 10+ open list interviews.

I think almost all of our peer schools have a much higher split, this probaby came about partially at the request of companies. If you are interviewing 20 people wouldnt you rather get to choose 14 of them instead of only 10? As a student, if you were #12 on their list, wouldn't you want to be selected as one of the 14 rather than being forced to bid on?
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Awesome explanation. Thanks river. +1
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Good points! thanks for the insight riverripper and steel!
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Got an email today about selecting assessors for the 360 Degree Assessment. Did you guys get that? Any idea whether the assessors' reports are treated anonymously? If not, then I'm concerned that I won't get honest feedback from direct reports and may consider delaying this until after I've left my company. Don't want them to feel pressured into giving rosy responses. What's everyone else doing?
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Got it and sent out invitations to respond to everyone around me along with a request to answer honestly. Now I just need to find the time to fill out my own evaluation...
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I disagree with River and Steel and think is a HUGE negative. This is being done to appease students, not recruiters. Allow me to explain:

The majority of students at b-school are career changers. Generally, those who are getting closed list spots in this economy or those that have prior experience in that function/industry. So if you are a career changer, this stinks. You are going to have to bid more points with fewer spots obviously, and there will be a domino effect. With fewer spots to bid on for each company, EVERY COMPANY will require more points.

I heard a stat that roughly 50 percent of on campus positions go to those who bid. That number will almost surely go down with this new system. As someone who recruited for a different industry and did basically all the networking possible, it is VERY hard to get a closed list without having prior experience. Remember, hundreds of students may be applying for that position and you all go to Kellogg. The only distinguishing factor is your prior work experience. And if I am Pepsi, I would much rather interview someone with prior marketing experience than a former accountant for my Brand Manager position.

Also, River brings up BCG going for a small amount of points. Well what's going to happen if McKinsey and Bain come back for on campus recruiting? That means Big 3 consulting will go for even more points, complicating things further. I can tell you with confidence that if you recruit for Big3 consulting in this economy, you need a backup plan. And if you bid on McKinsey and BCG, there is a realistic chance you won't have enough points to get the bid on top companies in other industries. Companies like J&J go for a lot, and will be even higher in this new system.

Yes, its true, people like Steel and even myself ended the season with lots of points? Why? Because tons of companies recruit in the first two weeks. So if you have landed your consulting interviews via closed lists, which most of us did this year because Bain and McK were off campus and you weren't allowed to bid, there isn't much incentive to bid on positions outside consulting. Why? Because consulting interviews are grueling, and requires all of your focus. Typically, those recruiting for consulting don't start bidding for non-consulting gigs until a bit later in the recruiting cycle.

Just my 2 cents.



riverripper
Yeah, I think its an improvement. At times you might really want a company but they might not want you at all...so bidding on is a waste of both your times. Them selecting you knows you already cleared that first hurdle. Some companies will put you on their alternate list and then basically ask you to bid on...had they been able to choose more you would have made it on the closed list.

If you have a sound strategy and network you should have no problem getting on closed lists for a least a fair number of your targets. Then just bid on ones you want. You could bid onto TONS of companies, most go for less than 50 points each...I mean BCG bid for 20 points last year. Consulting companies that have much fewer slots will bid for a lot more though. There are companies like Apple, microsoft, diageo, unilever, and nike that will bid for a lot. Isa, you want HC those don't bid for huge points so even if you dont make closed lists you probably could get 10+ open list interviews.

I think almost all of our peer schools have a much higher split, this probaby came about partially at the request of companies. If you are interviewing 20 people wouldnt you rather get to choose 14 of them instead of only 10? As a student, if you were #12 on their list, wouldn't you want to be selected as one of the 14 rather than being forced to bid on?
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Got an email today about selecting assessors for the 360 Degree Assessment. Did you guys get that? Any idea whether the assessors' reports are treated anonymously? If not, then I'm concerned that I won't get honest feedback from direct reports and may consider delaying this until after I've left my company. Don't want them to feel pressured into giving rosy responses. What's everyone else doing?
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The reports are definitely anonymous, so don't worry about that.
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Will be visiting campus tomorrow with my wife. Feel free to email me and let me know if anyone has time to meet. Thanks!
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MGOBLUE2
I disagree with River and Steel and think is a HUGE negative. This is being done to appease students, not recruiters. Allow me to explain:

The majority of students at b-school are career changers. Generally, those who are getting closed list spots in this economy or those that have prior experience in that function/industry. So if you are a career changer, this stinks. You are going to have to bid more points with fewer spots obviously, and there will be a domino effect. With fewer spots to bid on for each company, EVERY COMPANY will require more points.
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Icks. I think I fall into this bucket. I'm planning on recruiting for consulting + something in HC. I'm going to have to brainstorm a bit about how to pull that off exactly.
Thanks for your insight mgoblue2!
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Admitted to Kellogg Class of 2011 Thread Updated on: 03 Jun 2009, 05:30
Originally posted by Gil on 02 Jun 2009, 23:33.
Last edited by Gil on 03 Jun 2009, 05:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Also, River brings up BCG going for a small amount of points. Well what's going to happen if McKinsey and Bain come back for on campus recruiting? That means Big 3 consulting will go for even more points, complicating things further. I can tell you with confidence that if you recruit for Big3 consulting in this economy, you need a backup plan. And if you bid on McKinsey and BCG, there is a realistic chance you won't have enough points to get the bid on top companies in other industries. Companies like J&J go for a lot, and will be even higher in this new system.
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Wait a second - are you telling us McKinsey and Bain did not recruit on campus last year? Did they go to other schools? I was under the impression Kellogg is a very strong feeder into the top consulting companies - am I missing something?

Also - you started by saying this is done to appease students, but then you say the majority of students are career switchers (who are hurt by this change) - could you clarify who they are trying to appease and how?

Thanks,
Gil
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MGOBLUE2
Also, River brings up BCG going for a small amount of points. Well what's going to happen if McKinsey and Bain come back for on campus recruiting? That means Big 3 consulting will go for even more points, complicating things further. I can tell you with confidence that if you recruit for Big3 consulting in this economy, you need a backup plan. And if you bid on McKinsey and BCG, there is a realistic chance you won't have enough points to get the bid on top companies in other industries.
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I'm confused. If McK and Bain did not recruit on campus and if BCG was the only Big 3 consulting firm to be recruiting on campus, shouldn't it have gone for a higher number of bid points? Considering it was the only firm you could bid on, I would have assumed, all the people who were targeting Big 3 consulting would have bid on it (since they couldn't bid on McK and Bain, thereby driving the price up). I would assume if McK and Bain come back on campus, you'd have the same number of people bidding for more spots. And, thus the bid points should be lower when all 3 are on campus.

Gil

Wait a second - are you telling us Mckinzie and Bain did not recruit on campus last year? Did they go to other schools? I was under the impression Kellogg is a very strong feeder into the top consulting companies - am I missing something?

Also - you started by saying this is done to appease students, but then you say the majority of students are career switchers (who are hurt by this change) - could you clarify who they are trying to appease and how?

Thanks,
Gil
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Also, what Gil asked.
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Gil
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Also, River brings up BCG going for a small amount of points. Well what's going to happen if McKinsey and Bain come back for on campus recruiting? That means Big 3 consulting will go for even more points, complicating things further. I can tell you with confidence that if you recruit for Big3 consulting in this economy, you need a backup plan. And if you bid on McKinsey and BCG, there is a realistic chance you won't have enough points to get the bid on top companies in other industries. Companies like J&J go for a lot, and will be even higher in this new system.


Wait a second - are you telling us Mckinzie and Bain did not recruit on campus last year? Did they go to other schools? I was under the impression Kellogg is a very strong feeder into the top consulting companies - am I missing something?

Also - you started by saying this is done to appease students, but then you say the majority of students are career switchers (who are hurt by this change) - could you clarify who they are trying to appease and how?

Thanks,
Gil
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I'm confused about all of this as well. Gil, ultimately I'm not concerned, because the employment reports say it all - very high numbers at each of the big 3. The numbers are high relative to those for other companies and relative to other schools. Sloan and Tuck put roughly the same %'s into those co's, and the other schools less. So K is certainly a very strong feeder, regardless of how those companies choose to structure their recruiting. Looking at the 2008 report for K, the top 3 employers were McK (44), BCG (32), and Bain (28).
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Let me clarify -- By definition, "on campus" means the company interviews physically AT Kellogg. Literally. At the Jacobs building. But to interview AT Kellogg in the past, the company had to allow 50% of interview slots to go to bidding.

To get around this, and to interview at a place with more space, some companies choose to interview at a local hotel in Evanston. So they coordinate their own interview schedule without bidding. So 100% of those slots are closed. That is the difference.

Again, let me do a brief process flow:

Traditional On Campus Recruiter: Student sends resume/cover letter to Kellogg Career Center, who passes it on the company, company tells Kellogg who is closed listed, Kellogg notifies students the results

McKinsey/Bain: Student sends resume to Mckinsey/Bain directly.McKinsey and Bain tell students directly if they receive an interview slot.

Let me clarify -- These changes will not be an issue for those who recruit for Big 3 consulting. Bain/BCG/MCK recruit over 100 students each, so don't be concerned. Most students in consulting will get their shot. The real issue will be with non Big 3 consulting and non-consulting, when the company interviews significantly fewer students. As a general rule, the fewer spots open for bidding, the higher the spots will end up going for. Simple rules of the market. If demand is high, and supply is low, price will be high.

Now, yes, it is true I said bids would go up for Big 3 if they all were back recruiting through Kellogg. And let me explain. This past year, the only Big 3 consulting company a person could bid on was BCG. Again, BCG had 50 open list spots, so it did not bid for very high. Plenty of supply.

But imagine if in a bidding period, you needed to bid on Bain, BCG, Mckinsey. Some people will focus on one firm, while all others will try and spread their points evenly. But because there are fewer spots available for bidding, my hunch is that they will go for more. Remember, Big 3 consulting tempts everyone. Even those not recruiting for consulting. Also, many people recruit only for Big 3. These companies are high in demand, so although I wouldn't expect BCG to go for a ton of points, it will go higher than in past years.

Another thing that feeds my view is the amount of points bid on firms that do not interview on campus, like Monitor and Booz. Those firms were expensive. Now I admit, part of the reason is because they interview fewer people overall than the Big 3. But the other part is that there are just fewer closed list spots. I think when people see that there are only 15 slots open for bidding, people may overbid to ensure they get the interview.

Again, this is just my opinion. And do not stress. You guys will get consulting interviews if you attend the company's events, have a decent GPA, and network well. This will be more an issue for non-consulting though, when there are less interview slots.

Make sense?
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