GMAT Question of the Day - Daily to your Mailbox; hard ones only

It is currently 22 Sep 2018, 00:32

Close

GMAT Club Daily Prep

Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.

Close

Request Expert Reply

Confirm Cancel

Another Cheating Scandal

  new topic post reply Update application status  
Author Message
TAGS:

Hide Tags

GMAT Club Legend
GMAT Club Legend
avatar
Affiliations: HHonors Diamond, BGS Honor Society
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 5916
Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2009
GMAT 1: 730 Q45 V45
WE: Business Development (Consumer Products)
Premium Member
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 13:04
1
Oh and if anyone wants the $13 monstrosity of docs I bought, here they are. The exhibits themselves include a LOT of damning evidence, highlights include the post from headshot guy referenced earlier, a reply from Lei Shin to someone saying "what the heck! You cant post real questions!" basically calling him a Christian bible thumper, the paypal account info, etc.

(sorry its too big to attach here)
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 2092
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 13:22
rhyme wrote:
Oh and if anyone wants the $13 monstrosity of docs I bought, here they are. The exhibits themselves include a LOT of damning evidence, highlights include the post from headshot guy referenced earlier, a reply from Lei Shin to someone saying "what the heck! You cant post real questions!" basically calling him a Christian bible thumper, the paypal account info, etc.

6mb file of crap: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CHRAPKHP

(sorry its too big to attach here)


I can picture rhyme sniffing some bull terd with a huge magnifying glass in hand. Great work Sherlock Rhyme.

That's some dedication. Much like the sample gmat questions, I would have cheaped out at any payment requirements.
Current Student
User avatar
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 415
Schools: Kellogg Class of 2011
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 13:28
And that was another hard-hitting piece of investigative journalism brought to you by GmatClub's lead reporter in Chicago, Rhyme. :)

Kudos Rhyme!

rhyme wrote:
It cost me $13 more dollars to find the damn thing, but...

See paypalorder.pdf first...

and then see 18-13.

Although it doesnt say that they get access to his hard drive, clearly the discovery process included access to some information, and most notably, access to his paypal account. It may well be that they got that during the discovery process. If so, I wonder why they didn't introduce additional evidence from discovery in the docs, but maybe I missed something.

I talked to the district court in VA, and they tell me the case is complete and PACER is up to date. That begs the question, how did they get it shut down? I'm now thinking that they probably just sent a letter to the registrar and had it done.

The only other explanation is that the california case included such data. I've blown another 24 cents finding out, only to be given a PDF that stated:

"THIS DOCUMENT CONTAINS NON-PUBLIC INFORMATION PURSUANT TO THE E-GOVERNMENT ACT OF 2002 AND IS RESTRICTED FROM PUBLIC VIEWING"

I have absolutely not clue what in the heck could be in there that is non public, and I've skimmed through the e-government act of 2002, and I can't find anything in there that would explain that answer. All I can think of is that maybe it contains information from the FBI investigation, which I've discovered is actually ongoing. Thats the last possibility - maybe the data from the server was procured by the FBI as part of their investigation and they may have shared the results ?

And that ladies, is where I stop. $25 into it ... no more money!
GMAT Club Legend
GMAT Club Legend
avatar
Affiliations: HHonors Diamond, BGS Honor Society
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 5916
Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2009
GMAT 1: 730 Q45 V45
WE: Business Development (Consumer Products)
Premium Member
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 13:51
1
dosa_don wrote:
Great stuff Rhyme :)

So now this begs the question- where do the VIP users come into the picture? So far they dont seem to have to have access to that information, unless it is in that March 08 unavailable documents or in the HD. Well, they could still have access to the paypal account I guess.

Also, in that exhibit 12, they state that he has received over $300,000 in payments. Assuming all of them are from this, then there are 10,000 users implicated in this right?


The March 08 documents are apparently the last one. I suspect the timing issues are just because of the FBI's involvement, or possibly GMAC waited until the california filing was complete and put together.

As for your math, I'm not 100% sure that's right - because I think scoretop also sold other stuff like one-on-one tutoring, but I could be wrong. I suspect access to the paypal account is likely all they need to track down who paid for VIP access. What I'm really baffled by is why GMAC didnt identify the infringing folks in the suit - at least one - (it came up in the judges opinion as an issue)... its not hard at all to do so.

So many people report their scores in such detail (see the exhibits) "I got a 580, then a 640, then a 740 today"... How many people in GMAC's database exist who just happened to take the test on date X, get a 740, and also happen to have previously had a 640 and 580?
Combine that with the fact that many list the breakdown and I cant imagine that that isn't sufficient to identify one person.

Actually, you should all check out exhibit 3. You'll be SHOCKED. Not just at how insanely BRAZEN it was, but at how much people recalled or copied. I'm talking about people literally writing down entire RC passages or remembering 10 or more math questions in detail!

GMAC's (public) claim that the scheme probably didn't work anyway seems pretty awful wrong too. The scores frankly speak for themselves. Starting on page 17 of 26 in exhibit 3, a guy tells us of how he scored 580.... and then ends up with a 740. Thats a pretty massive leap. If it seems reasonable to you, think of it in percentage terms -- thats someting like 64th percentile to 98th...

When asked how he did it, he says he got 10 Math problems he'd seen before and at least 2 verbal problems - and more that seemed familiar..

Stop and think about that for a second. Can you imagine getting 10 problems you already knew the answer to and even more ? Thats not a small advantage - its not 1 or 2 questions that seem vaguely familiar.... I mean really, thats what, something like 30% of the ENTIRE math section? I forget how many questions there are... was it 37? Imagine having the answer to 30% of that, and not only that - you take, what 20 seconds per? so now you have 70 minutes or so to answer 27 questions? Thats a serious advantage. Other people go even further and claim they saw so many repeats they couldn't even remember. To be honest, it makes me pretty mad. I worked so !@(#! hard for my score.

In any case, in the end, I can only conclude that GMAC has no intention of pursuing these people. If they did, they already would have.
GMAT Club Legend
GMAT Club Legend
User avatar
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4318
Location: Back in Chicago, IL
Schools: Kellogg Alum: Class of 2010
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:03
Seems like this is a huge problem overseas, so this might just be an english language version of a common practice in China.

http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/jan2006/bs2006015_2198_bs001.htm
_________________

Kellogg Class of 2010...still active and willing to help. However, I do not do profile reviews, don't offer predictions on chances and am far to busy to review essays, so save the energy of writing me a PM seeking help for these. If I don't respond to a PM that is not one of the previously mentioned trash can destined messages, please don't take it personally I get so many messages I have a hard to responding to most. The more interesting, compelling, or humorous you message the more likely I am to respond.
GMAT Club Premium Membership - big benefits and savings

GMAT Club Legend
GMAT Club Legend
avatar
Affiliations: HHonors Diamond, BGS Honor Society
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 5916
Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2009
GMAT 1: 730 Q45 V45
WE: Business Development (Consumer Products)
Premium Member
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:06
Ugh. One of the cheaters is in my class at the GSB.
Director
Director
User avatar
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 623
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:09
rhyme wrote:
Ugh. One of the cheaters is in my class at the GSB.


Wow! Really? How did you find that out? It's crazy to think that somebody is at Chicago right now earning an MBA because he/she cheated their way through the GMAT.
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 1531
Location: Ann Arbor
Schools: Ross '10
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:11
In fact, its very easy. http://deepakch.blogspot.com/2006/09/gm ... -v-40.html

The author specifically says he read JJs.
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 2092
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:11
rhyme wrote:
Stop and think about that for a second. Can you imagine getting 10 problems you already knew the answer to and even more ? Thats not a small advantage - its not 1 or 2 questions that seem vaguely familiar.... I mean really, thats what, something like 30% of the ENTIRE math section? I forget how many questions there are... was it 37? Imagine having the answer to 30% of that, and not only that - you take, what 20 seconds per? so now you have 70 minutes or so to answer 27 questions? Thats a serious advantage. Other people go even further and claim they saw so many repeats they couldn't even remember.


Not to mention that practicing (Let's pretend we don't remember the actual questions come test day) on "live" questions is even BETTER than practicing OG, OG supp + GMATPrep!

GMAC, if they were smart, could figure out how long a test taker took to do a particular problem. With the exception of guessing, which a skilled test taker would only do on a topic which she knew she sucked at or running late in the section, there is a minimum amount of time a test taker must need to even get remotely close to the correct answer.

GMAC can figure this out. There are some CR reasoning questions that require 30 seconds to read. If people are getting these correct in 10 seconds, that's a blatant example of foul play there. There are DS problems that require multiple steps to arrive at the final answer. Someone clicking an answer within 15 seconds should set off alarms.

rhyme wrote:
To be honest, it makes me pretty mad. I worked so !@(#! hard for my score.


haha, I'm sure you can tell by my rant in this thread how peeved I am.
Intern
Intern
avatar
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 10
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:15
riverripper wrote:
Seems like this is a huge problem overseas, so this might just be an english language version of a common practice in China.

http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/jan2006/bs2006015_2198_bs001.htm



Uhhh...I already said this back on page 4...
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 2092
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:16
ned80 wrote:
riverripper wrote:
Seems like this is a huge problem overseas, so this might just be an english language version of a common practice in China.

http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/jan2006/bs2006015_2198_bs001.htm



Uhhh...I already said this back on page 4...


Yup, it's been noted throughout this thread that these actions are merely the tip of the iceberg.
Director
Director
User avatar
Joined: 10 Jun 2006
Posts: 623
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:19
At first I thought this was not a big deal and most people were overeacting. I figured at most people would vaguely remember 1-2 questions. So what. But now, after seeing the info Ryhme has uncovered, I'm actually really angry about this whole thing! I busted my hump for my score! It was not easy. I even had a super long stickied post on it back in the day. It took me 4 attempts and an incredible amount of hard work to get my 740. I never thought there were people out there cheating their way to the same score. In fact, I naively thought that there was no way to cheat on the GMAT. What with all the ID requirements, pictures, fingerprints and all that crap. What a crock.
GMAT Club Legend
GMAT Club Legend
User avatar
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4318
Location: Back in Chicago, IL
Schools: Kellogg Alum: Class of 2010
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:24
ned80 wrote:
riverripper wrote:
Seems like this is a huge problem overseas, so this might just be an english language version of a common practice in China.

http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/jan2006/bs2006015_2198_bs001.htm



Uhhh...I already said this back on page 4...


I saw that but the article is an interesting read...kind of shows this is an on going problem GMAC hasnt been able to do anything about. After googling "scoretop.com jj" and then adding blog to that search its clear this was a very common practice on the site. I am now of the opinion that they need to go after more than a few of these people to make an example of them. Maybe if they get several dozen folks booted from schools or prevent them from being able to ever apply due to lack of a GMAT, then people will not try to use this method.
_________________

Kellogg Class of 2010...still active and willing to help. However, I do not do profile reviews, don't offer predictions on chances and am far to busy to review essays, so save the energy of writing me a PM seeking help for these. If I don't respond to a PM that is not one of the previously mentioned trash can destined messages, please don't take it personally I get so many messages I have a hard to responding to most. The more interesting, compelling, or humorous you message the more likely I am to respond.
GMAT Club Premium Membership - big benefits and savings

GMAT Club Legend
GMAT Club Legend
avatar
Affiliations: HHonors Diamond, BGS Honor Society
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 5916
Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2009
GMAT 1: 730 Q45 V45
WE: Business Development (Consumer Products)
Premium Member
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:26
IHateTheGMAT wrote:
rhyme wrote:
Ugh. One of the cheaters is in my class at the GSB.


Wow! Really? How did you find that out? It's crazy to think that somebody is at Chicago right now earning an MBA because he/she cheated their way through the GMAT.


Someone recognized his name and sent me his blog. From there, it was obvious.
Current Student
User avatar
Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Posts: 1062
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:26
Interesting to see that the b-week journalist covering both the issues is the same.

riverripper wrote:
ned80 wrote:
riverripper wrote:
Seems like this is a huge problem overseas, so this might just be an english language version of a common practice in China.

http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/content/jan2006/bs2006015_2198_bs001.htm



Uhhh...I already said this back on page 4...


I saw that but the article is an interesting read...kind of shows this is an on going problem GMAC hasnt been able to do anything about. After googling "scoretop.com jj" and then adding blog to that search its clear this was a very common practice on the site. I am now of the opinion that they need to go after more than a few of these people to make an example of them. Maybe if they get several dozen folks booted from schools or prevent them from being able to ever apply due to lack of a GMAT, then people will not try to use this method.
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 24 Aug 2006
Posts: 2092
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:27
IHateTheGMAT wrote:
At first I thought this was not a big deal and most people were overeacting. I figured at most people would vaguely remember 1-2 questions. So what. But now, after seeing the info Ryhme has uncovered, I'm actually really angry about this whole thing! I busted my hump for my score! It was not easy. I even had a super long stickied post on it back in the day. It took me 4 attempts and an incredible amount of hard work to get my 740. I never thought there were people out there cheating their way to the same score. In fact, I naively thought that there was no way to cheat on the GMAT. What with all the ID requirements, pictures, fingerprints and all that crap. What a crock.


The more I thought about the GMAT's adaptive nature with its "multiple" difficulty bins, I recognized its inherent weakness:

Not enough questions, especially considering people can take the test any time, any day. The best deterrent would be to go back to paper format or administer the test semi annually, maybe even quarterly. But will GMAC sacrifice its bottom line to maintain its integrity?
SVP
SVP
User avatar
Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 1531
Location: Ann Arbor
Schools: Ross '10
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:28
rhyme, why is GSB so attracted towards folks with forged transcripts(the guy who was caught breaking in) and cheated GMATs. Sour grapes!

rhyme wrote:
IHateTheGMAT wrote:
rhyme wrote:
Ugh. One of the cheaters is in my class at the GSB.


Wow! Really? How did you find that out? It's crazy to think that somebody is at Chicago right now earning an MBA because he/she cheated their way through the GMAT.


Someone recognized his name and sent me his blog. From there, it was obvious.
VP
VP
User avatar
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 1044
Location: New York, NY
Schools: Chicago Booth Class of 2010
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:33
kidderek wrote:
IHateTheGMAT wrote:
At first I thought this was not a big deal and most people were overeacting. I figured at most people would vaguely remember 1-2 questions. So what. But now, after seeing the info Ryhme has uncovered, I'm actually really angry about this whole thing! I busted my hump for my score! It was not easy. I even had a super long stickied post on it back in the day. It took me 4 attempts and an incredible amount of hard work to get my 740. I never thought there were people out there cheating their way to the same score. In fact, I naively thought that there was no way to cheat on the GMAT. What with all the ID requirements, pictures, fingerprints and all that crap. What a crock.


The more I thought about the GMAT's adaptive nature with its "multiple" difficulty bins, I recognized its inherent weakness:

Not enough questions, especially considering people can take the test any time, any day. The best deterrent would be to go back to paper format or administer the test semi annually, maybe even quarterly. But will GMAC sacrifice its bottom line to maintain its integrity?


Off course they won't change to a once per year test, they are also looking at the $$$!

On the other hand they MUST change something to give credibility, which is hard to build and very easy to loose...
_________________

Rhyme´s guide to interviewing
http://www.gmatclub.com/forum/t55030

Kwam's Profile
http://gmatclub.com/forum/111-t57360

Senior Manager
Senior Manager
User avatar
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 385
Location: Europe
Schools: St. Gallen '09
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:35
This whole GMAT cheating scandal is a hot topic!

Every time I make a post, there's like 3 or 4 more new ones.
GMAT Club Legend
GMAT Club Legend
User avatar
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4318
Location: Back in Chicago, IL
Schools: Kellogg Alum: Class of 2010
Re: Another Cheating Scandal  [#permalink]

Show Tags

New post 25 Jun 2008, 14:35
Trader, I think they are talking about another blog...I dont think Rhyme posted anything about his classmate on here.

http://nucliomaniac.blogspot.com/2005/10/gmat.html ISB '07

Its not hard to figure out some of these people...this guy has his real name on his blog.
_________________

Kellogg Class of 2010...still active and willing to help. However, I do not do profile reviews, don't offer predictions on chances and am far to busy to review essays, so save the energy of writing me a PM seeking help for these. If I don't respond to a PM that is not one of the previously mentioned trash can destined messages, please don't take it personally I get so many messages I have a hard to responding to most. The more interesting, compelling, or humorous you message the more likely I am to respond.
GMAT Club Premium Membership - big benefits and savings

Re: Another Cheating Scandal &nbs [#permalink] 25 Jun 2008, 14:35

Go to page   Previous    1  ...  5   6   7   8   9   10   11  ...  22    Next  [ 439 posts ] 

Display posts from previous: Sort by

Another Cheating Scandal

  new topic post reply Update application status  

Events & Promotions

PREV
NEXT


GMAT Club MBA Forum Home| About| Terms and Conditions and Privacy Policy| GMAT Club Rules| Contact| Sitemap

Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group | Emoji artwork provided by EmojiOne

Kindly note that the GMAT® test is a registered trademark of the Graduate Management Admission Council®, and this site has neither been reviewed nor endorsed by GMAC®.