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Praetorian
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 06:22
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rhyme is in the wrong profession.
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sam77sam7
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 06:55
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The remaining questions I have is - Does GMAC really have the hard drive?

The court documents seem to suggest that the they did not have the right to seize it, but as Rhyme pointed out, perhaps they obtained it during the discovery phase?

Any insights GMATClub investigators?
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 07:26
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Wow - apparently the BLAW>DCKT function on your Bloomberg terminal is a procrastinator's dream come true. :)
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rhyme
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 07:43
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sam77sam7
The remaining questions I have is - Does GMAC really have the hard drive?

The court documents seem to suggest that the they did not have the right to seize it, but as Rhyme pointed out, perhaps they obtained it during the discovery phase?

Any insights GMATClub investigators?
Show more

I think I've pretty much figured that out. The writ of execution is the only document I can't see. For some reason its been redacted - possibly because it includes information about the ongoing investigation, or maybe the name of one of the FBI agents, I don't know. Thats the document that included the order to shut down the website. It seems likely its also the document that included the seizure of the hard drives.

Short of calling the Maricopa County Sherriff's office and somehow convincing them to show me it, which I doubt would work (and I'm not sure it would be legal to do), I don't think we'll ever know for sure.
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 07:52
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My God! Just signed on to GMAT Club today and this thread has blown up.

What can I say, Rhyme actually called the guy. I thought he was in China by now, did you find his Chinese number and call him up in China?

Kwam, analysing how long it took to answer each question is one way, but how can you ever prove based on it that the person knew the questions beforehand. Everyone is going to say they guessed and even with blind guessing there is a minute possibility someone gets 5 straight questions right.

This is just a pathetic situation though. GMAC needs to stop thinking about the $$$ and start thinking about its credibility. These jj's have seriously undermined the hard work of so many people. And, as people here have noted the credibility of Indians and Chinese, even though, this is probably the first time most of them even heard about the JJs (at least I would hope so). The entire concept of fierce competition in these 2 countries is all well and good, but you need some ethical framework otherwise this is where the next Ken Lay or Dennis Levine is going to come from.

I'm surprised schools aren't looking deeper into this. As Rhyme said, I would hate to be classmates with someone like this. Considering people were brazen enough to write they used these jj's along with their actual names in their blogs, they deserve some sort of academic suspension if not expulsion.

So much for Kroll verification.
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 07:57
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yellow

I agree, but if you have a suspect of posting at scoretop, and his patttern during his GMAT was like this, you have a high probability of getting the guilty! I'm just thnking loud here. Don't you agree that it's very unlikely that someone would just guess questions at the beggining of the test and still get 700+ scores? I know that it would be hard to prove anything; however, it'w a way to narrow down the cheaters...
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 10:49
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I dont know how GMAC could change things to prevent cheating without creating paper onetime tests but the costs of that would be prohibitive.
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 11:02
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riverripper
I dont know how GMAC could change things to prevent cheating without creating paper onetime tests but the costs of that would be prohibitive.
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I don't think that they can prevent cheating, but they can certainly mitigate it. Start by investing the funds to significantly increasing the size of the question pool. There was a post in one of the documents about how GMAC only uses a small fraction of their pool of questions in a given month - this policy seems like a very poor idea given that it directly led to the ability of many of the students to see "repeat" questions from a relatively small number of "JJs". They could also reduce the frequency that applicants are allowed to take the test, impose stricter sanctions and monitoring on testing centers in India/China, require a "cooling off" period following the test where exam takers must wait for an hour or two without being able to write anything down before leaving, etc. If GMAC truly cares about the integrity of the test, they'll need to not only come down hard on the cheaters, but also take steps to ensure that the root of the problem is addressed. If they are short-sighted and only care about their near-term profit margin, they'll just sweep this under the rug.
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 13:03
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rhyme- were you the one who provided lavelle the complaint pdf? ;)
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rhyme
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 13:25
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dosa_don
rhyme- were you the one who provided lavelle the complaint pdf? ;)
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Not that I know of... I mean, its public domain. That said, I could teach him a thing or two about investigative journalism. :)
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 13:27
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Well I have a question that has thus far been unasked. Has anyone from this site contacted GMAC to ensure that this place is in compliance. It seems like it might be time for some house cleaning and a very large posting about policies.
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 13:30
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do you guys want me to hand deliver something to gmac? i pass by their headquarters all the time.
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rhyme
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 13:53
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riverripper
Well I have a question that has thus far been unasked. Has anyone from this site contacted GMAC to ensure that this place is in compliance. It seems like it might be time for some house cleaning and a very large posting about policies.
Show more

I think thats something Praet would decide, not something we would.

In any case, I think that we are OK - we have always proactively discouraged any kind of file sharing, warez, etc. I've never even heard the term JJ on this site until yesterday, and I know we've banned many users for violations over the last two years. It seems to me that GMAC gave scoretop a fair chance with their cease and desist - only when they failed to comply did they escalate.
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 13:55
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dabots
do you guys want me to hand deliver something to gmac? i pass by their headquarters all the time.
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 13:55
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rhyme
riverripper
Well I have a question that has thus far been unasked. Has anyone from this site contacted GMAC to ensure that this place is in compliance. It seems like it might be time for some house cleaning and a very large posting about policies.

I think thats something Praet would decide, not something we would.
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We are fine. Policies are already in place in the Math and Verbal forums.
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 13:58
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I've been in touch with GMAC to request their score revocation timeline. Sadly, they've replied that they don't yet have one in place. I want them to start tomorrow.
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 14:03
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rhyme
I've been in touch with GMAC to request their score revocation timeline. Sadly, they've replied that they don't yet have one in place. I want them to start tomorrow.
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You really think they are going to revoke scores?
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 14:07
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rhyme
I've been in touch with GMAC to request their score revocation timeline. Sadly, they've replied that they don't yet have one in place. I want them to start tomorrow.

You really think they are going to revoke scores?
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Sadly, no I think they won't. I think they are just blowing hot air.
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 14:09
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Which scores do you think they will/should revoke?

Those who posted live questions after their exams?

Those who attributed VIP membership/MJJ for their success?

Those who requested that live questions be posted?

Those who bought VIP membership?

Those who registered in scoretop?
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Another Cheating Scandal 26 Jun 2008, 14:11
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I dont know this story seems to have picked up steam and has legs...if its getting attention they may feel compelled to find some people and do something about their scores.

I dont think being a member of scoretop would be reason enough. If they can match people to posting live questions, posts about MJJ success, downloading JJ files, or posting live questions...those I think justify having the scores revoked.
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