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Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech

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Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech  [#permalink]

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New post 13 Dec 2018, 14:00
Hi gmatclub,
I am 32 with tech background (product manager) from Europe. Want to transfer to product management in US (Google, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft)
Now, my options are:
1. Booth MBA/MPCS with $40K grant, $220K in total
2. Kellogg MMM without any money, $270K in total
3. Berkeley Haas with $70K grant, $115K in total
Total includes grant and summer internship salary

My thoughts on choices:
Booth MPCS
Pro
    STEM OPT extension
    Strong academics and flexible curriculum
    Grant $40K
    Brand
Cons
    Culture concerns (from rumours: introverted, nerdy, unresponsive etc). From my own contacts - just as good as in other schools.
    CS degree probably good only for Google, for others will be an overkill.
    Probability not to get into joint-degree -> lose STEM

Kellogg MMM
Pro
    STEM OPT extension
    Design innovation skills
    Culture
cons
    3 months longer -> less income, more costs
    no grant

Berkeley Haas
Pro
    Culture
    Location (weather, connections to tech scene in Valley)
    Academic tech powerhouse
    Grant $70K
cons
    No STEM OPT extension -> visa risk
    Ranking comparing to Booth and Kellogg -> faculty not as strong
    somewhat lazy/relaxed feeling from students, faculty (perhaps I am wrong)

I think STEM extension worth its premium price, so I choose between Booth and Kellogg, Booth being the top-choice now. Could you please share your perspective on several issues:
1. Booth culture — is there a big difference between booth and kellogg?
2. Can I leverage Haas grant to negotiate Kellogg, and if that will work, leverage Haas and Kellogg to negotiate Booth? Final aim is to get the best deal from Booth
3. Are my points reasonable?
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Re: Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Dec 2018, 04:18
From a job point of view, I think all 3 are great options. But I'd agree that the STEM extension (2 more years) is worth the premium. If Kellogg is the only place where STEM is secured, can you negotiate with Kellogg for some money?
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Re: Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech  [#permalink]

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New post 16 Dec 2018, 23:47
Congratulations on your Admits! Fantastic Job!
I assume you have tried HBS and GSB without a positive result? Sorry to bring that up on your happy day, just trying to understand if you may want to take another shot in R2.

Taking into consideration your success with admits to these 3 schools, i would not expect you having issues with converting into a FT job with pretty much the company of your choice. You have the experience with your age, and you are not switching industries, so you will be building on top of a strong background. The fact that you got admitted so well, means schools are very comfortable with your employability.

I would not agree per se about Booth culture - knowing a number of people who graduated from Booth, or any business school, it is all about what you want that culture to be. Booth has a huge class and you can definitely find the people who are similarly minded and form your little circle. Everyone does in the business school after about 2 weeks. Many programs have a trip/trek before the school starts (Kellogg does a mystery trip still I believe and Booth has options). http://theboothexp.com - I am assuming you have found this site already? But in any case, I would not worry about people rubbing you the wrong way or getting a bad vibe. It is not like Booth is a magnet or naturally selects boring dorks, and then ranks within top 3 programs ;-)

You can absolutely approach schools and kindly request reconsidering their offers. It does not happen often but it happens and when it does happen, schools ask people to keep it quiet, so we have little information about successful reconsiderations but you have to keep in mind that schools have budgets that are assigned for each Round and usually they give those away and unless someone cancels/chooses to go elsewhere (which is unlikely but possible), your reconsideration, will not be granted if there are no funds.

All of these programs recruit well with the top players such as AMZ, FB, INTL, IBM, APPL, and Google. Yes, Haas is close and you will be going to school with many of the folks who have worked (or still working while in FEMBA) at those companies. You will be in the middle of it, which allows to network closer to the corporate office but what I am hearing from folks elsewhere, usually you are well connected with the Booth/Kellogg/etc alums within those companies and they have point people who are in charge of reach out to current students and plucking the best talent early. While it feels like you would likely work on the west coast and so why not move there right away, I am not lobbying for that but it is $100K-$150K cheaper and in case brown substance hits the H1B fan, minimizes your exposure. One thing nobody can tell you is about OPT and Visa. You won't be be needing the STEM OPT until 2022 - that's 3.5 years and a bet potentially on that.

It is an interesting situation. I can find 10 reasons to go to Booth, 10 to Kellogg, and 10 to Haas but you do your MBA only once and you want to do it without regrets and do it well. Where is your heart calling you? Do you want to minimize cost, maximize STEM, or get the Top Ranked school?

P.S. school is never lazy per se. It is always hard work beyond your ability/capacity but one can always find ways to cut corners and coast and shortcut themselves out of a great experience into a 2-year summer camp. There is a funny misconception by east coast people and east coast schools that west coast is lazy because the companies are less formal, people are not at work till 9 AM PST (which is noon eastern), folks wear flip flops and shorts to work, esp in LA, and east coasters are just plain jealous of the quality of life. I would not consider laziness as a concern for Haas, personally. It is a hoax. :cool:
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Re: Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Dec 2018, 06:14
bb wrote:
Congratulations on your Admits! Fantastic Job!
I assume you have tried HBS and GSB without a positive result? Sorry to bring that up on your happy day, just trying to understand if you may want to take another shot in R2.

Thanks you so much for such elaborate answer. Actually this year is my third year of applying to Bschools.
2016-17 R1
H+S+W+Haas+Kellogg+MIT - with Wharton, Haas and Kellogg interviews. No admits
2017-18 R1
H+W+Haas+MIT+Kellogg - with Kellogg interview. No admits
2018-19 R1
Haas+Kellogg+Yale+Booth - with Haas, Kellogg, Booth interviews and three admits.

I was thinking about Stanford R2, but I'll be considered reapplicant and I am not sure that elitist Stanford would pay attention to my not-blue-chip company and noname undergrad.
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Re: Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech  [#permalink]

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New post 19 Dec 2018, 10:16
Booth is probably your best bet here...but seriously all 3 are great schools and if you want to be in LA or San Fran Haas will get you wherever you need to go.
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Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech  [#permalink]

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New post Updated on: 19 Dec 2018, 10:58
2021admitted wrote:
bb wrote:
Congratulations on your Admits! Fantastic Job!
I assume you have tried HBS and GSB without a positive result? Sorry to bring that up on your happy day, just trying to understand if you may want to take another shot in R2.

Thanks you so much for such elaborate answer. Actually this year is my third year of applying to Bschools.
2016-17 R1
H+S+W+Haas+Kellogg+MIT - with Wharton, Haas and Kellogg interviews. No admits
2017-18 R1
H+W+Haas+MIT+Kellogg - with Kellogg interview. No admits
2018-19 R1
Haas+Kellogg+Yale+Booth - with Haas, Kellogg, Booth interviews and three admits.

I was thinking about Stanford R2, but I'll be considered reapplicant and I am not sure that elitist Stanford would pay attention to my not-blue-chip company and noname undergrad.



Got ya. Great job on perseverance and improving your application and not giving up! I would love to hear a bit more of your story if you are willing to share as to what you changed and what you think made a difference. Also, at 32, that's really impressive as US Schools tend to be snobby with older applicants and give them second looks.

I assumed when you said you have a grant from Booth, it was a scholarship, which indicates that Booth Adcom mildly suspects you may have an admit from a higher ranked school (which would only be H/S/W) and if Booth adcom mildly suspects you got into one of those, I am being mildly suspicious too ;)

P.S. Believe it or not but Haas is a very tricky school to get in. It is one of the smallest Top 10 programs (I think the smallest) and very selective and sometimes unpredictable, so the fact that you got in there with a scholarship is a big tribute to your effort and your application package.
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Originally posted by bb on 19 Dec 2018, 10:56.
Last edited by bb on 19 Dec 2018, 10:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech  [#permalink]

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New post 20 Dec 2018, 01:35
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bb wrote:
Got ya. Great job on perseverance and improving your application and not giving up! I would love to hear a bit more of your story if you are willing to share as to what you changed and what you think made a difference. Also, at 32, that's really impressive as US Schools tend to be snobby with older applicants and give them second looks.

Thank you. We will never know what really changed the game, but in my opinion the factors are:
    1. Become closer to my goal. In 2015 I was running my own small company, and had no relevant experience for my career goal--PM role in giant tech. I changed a job for a PM role in a major local tech company and learned a great deal of new skills
    2. Execution of applications. In first applications I made a lot of sloppy mistakes--sent a lot of different inconsistent signals. My story was overcomplicated with a lot of stuff to understand. In latter applications I changed my positioning and made a simple and easily understandable story. Easy to understand->easy to make decision for an adcom
    3. Better prepared for interviews
    4. I've heard this season had less international applications
In general, I believe, I could have been smarter to execute #1 and #2 earlier. Probably I am slow learner, but stubborn and persistent.
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New post 20 Dec 2018, 10:23
Thank you so much!

It also looks like you are diligent and you put the work in without cutting corners. Even the first post, you bolded, formatted, and color-coded to make it easier for the folks reading. I appreciated it!
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New post 21 Dec 2018, 02:28
bb wrote:
Thank you so much!

It also looks like you are diligent and you put the work in without cutting corners. Even the first post, you bolded, formatted, and color-coded to make it easier for the folks reading. I appreciated it!


Thank you and all gmatclubbers! Your input is greatly appreciated.
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Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech  [#permalink]

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New post 01 Jan 2019, 16:00
The Booth MPCS program is perfect for your goals and coupled with the 40K, seems like the way to go here. Having gone to Booth and choosing it over Kellogg / having a few good friends who went to Kellogg, the cultures are not as different as people make them out to be. The major difference is living downtown in Chicago and commuting 2-4 days a week to Hyde Park versus living on campus in Evanston. 65% of Booth students live within a 5 block radius downtown so it doesn't really feel like a commuter school as students aren't that spread out around Chicago as they are at CBS, Stern, etc.
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Re: Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Jan 2019, 13:36
jessepinkman wrote:
The Booth MPCS program is perfect for your goals and coupled with the 40K, seems like the way to go here. Having gone to Booth and choosing it over Kellogg / having a few good friends who went to Kellogg, the cultures are not as different as people make them out to be. The major difference is living downtown in Chicago and commuting 2-4 days a week to Hyde Park versus living on campus in Evanston. 65% of Booth students live within a 5 block radius downtown so it doesn't really feel like a commuter school as students aren't that spread out around Chicago as they are at CBS, Stern, etc.

Thanks for a reply. What is your perspective on the next issue? Further analyzing MPCS and MMM, I realized, that MPCS is basically $50K to exchange MBA courses for CS ones. Standard Booth MBA is 21 classes, while joint-degree MBA&MPCS is also 21 classes (14 MBA + 7 CS). For example, MMM program consists of 28 classes (21 Kellogg + 7 MMM)
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Re: Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech  [#permalink]

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New post 02 Jan 2019, 20:38
2021admitted wrote:
jessepinkman wrote:
The Booth MPCS program is perfect for your goals and coupled with the 40K, seems like the way to go here. Having gone to Booth and choosing it over Kellogg / having a few good friends who went to Kellogg, the cultures are not as different as people make them out to be. The major difference is living downtown in Chicago and commuting 2-4 days a week to Hyde Park versus living on campus in Evanston. 65% of Booth students live within a 5 block radius downtown so it doesn't really feel like a commuter school as students aren't that spread out around Chicago as they are at CBS, Stern, etc.

Thanks for a reply. What is your perspective on the next issue? Further analyzing MPCS and MMM, I realized, that MPCS is basically $50K to exchange MBA courses for CS ones. Standard Booth MBA is 21 classes, while joint-degree MBA&MPCS is also 21 classes (14 MBA + 7 CS). For example, MMM program consists of 28 classes (21 Kellogg + 7 MMM)


I didn't evaluate MPCS or MMM in detail when applying so don't have a ton of input here but I would focus on what you want to learn, which secondary degree would be more helpful, and which school is an overall better fit as opposed to which one gives you additional classes.
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Re: Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech  [#permalink]

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New post 14 Jan 2019, 08:20
Are you going to be able to go to admit weekends? You will find your culture questions will be answered at those with no issue, but considering it is far for you not sure if you are able to make it out to the schools.

Also you can likely negotiate with Kellogg using your Booth scholarship dollars to get Kellogg to give you money.
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Re: Booth ($$) vs Kellogg vs Haas ($$$) for tech   [#permalink] 14 Jan 2019, 08:20
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