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vyomneeraj
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 09:41
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for me the answer is simple....its all a matter of what you're capable of...if you can get into harvard, then you deserve to get the higher placement options (after all thts why youre gunning for harvard in the first place)...but if you cant make it and do get into duke, or any other col, then its basically a reflection of your capability vis-a-vis other candidates and hence you will get placed accordingly....so dont worry abt it...in the end, you'll only get what you can achieve....
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 09:54
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Another way to look at the placement is to take into consideration of the # of people going into the firms that you're aiming for with regard to the entire class population. Without any hard data in front of me, I'm going to assume that Wharton places roughly 100 people into M/B/B, and its class population is 800. That's about 12.5% of Wharton consulting folks going into M/B/B (and M/B/B only). That's huge!! If you take a look at Duke, my very raw guess for the # of people going to M/B/B is probably 25, out of a class of 440. That's about 5.6% of Fuqua consulting folks make it into M/B/B. So yes, chances are you will have a higher chance of getting into the top consulting firms at Wharton, but in terms of opportunities you will be able to impress the employers at either school. I used consulting as an example, but you can easily translate that into ibanking, or whatever field you're interested in.
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To be precise, 35 people last year - either through summer recruiting or full-time recruiting landed at M/B/B at Fuqua. Thats about 8% of the class. If you add Deloitte and Booz to the mix, its 30 + 5 = 35 more ... So 70 out of 440 at the top 5 seems like pretty strong consulting recruiting to me. Not at all that bad ... so IMHO for main stream areas like consulting / banking / corporate strategy, the difference between Wharton and Duke is very small ... and even smaller with Booth (52 people landed at M/B/B last year out of 580 - thats 8.9%). In fact healthcare and tech firms (like Apple & Microsoft etc) recruit in larger numbers and in % terms at Duke than Booth for corp strategy / gen mgmt positions. So for me, unless you are looking at PE/VC industry or hedge funds, in which case Wharton clearly stands out and Booth is probably a little bit better, I feel the difference is small. Whats most important is your personal fit with the school. If you are good enough, you will land at M/B/B or bulge bracket banks or industry of your choice, irrespective of whether you goto Duke or Booth. Wharton to me is a notch higher (better brand / networks) but again just in terms of post MBA recruiting they are almost the same.
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 10:05
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Going off the employment report, I counted 12 Fuquans to MBB, 18 to Deloitte, and 8 to Accenture from the class of 2010. 28% of the class works in "consulting".

From my trip down to Durham, one thing I learned about Duke is that "only" 30% of the jobs are obtained through on-campus recruiting and the CMC likes it that way. The way they see it, 90% of companies are small and do not have the resources to recruit on campus.

Duke seems to want their grads to work for smaller companies. So, comparing Fuqua to Wharton isn't quite apples to apples. But if you go to Duke (or anywhere else) and want to go to MBB, etc., the opportunities are there. You just have to make it happen.
Show more

https://www.fuquaworld.duke.edu/cmcfile ... s09-10.pdf

Your numbers seem a bit off friend. You did not count the number of people who landed M/B/B or Deloitte through their summer internships. I clarified this same thing with CMC ... you really need to look at the total column for actual folks landing at MBB after graduation from Fuqua in the report. The CMC also told me almost 99% of people from their summers converted their internships in consulting. In fact at McKinsey it was 100% last year, @ BCG and Bain, it was 98%. Also, Fuqua had an influential alumnus join McKinsey's board last year and this year Fuqua will be a core school McKinsey and they expect 20+ hires at the least at M alone - I got this info from the Associate Director of the CMC at the Fuqua reception in NYC.
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 10:22
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vyomneeraj
for me the answer is simple....its all a matter of what you're capable of...if you can get into harvard, then you deserve to get the higher placement options (after all thts why youre gunning for harvard in the first place)...but if you cant make it and do get into duke, or any other col, then its basically a reflection of your capability vis-a-vis other candidates and hence you will get placed accordingly....so dont worry abt it...in the end, you'll only get what you can achieve....
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I agree and disagree with you ... An Indian dude coming from a top-tier feeder industry at Duke will probably land up doing better than some diversity based acceptance at Harvard bcos the pool he had to navigate was much more difficult and the standards set for him were higher ... so ur theory that anybody at Harvard is better than everybody at Duke maybe be fallacious .... I will agree though that the overall caliber at Harvard maybe a tad bit better than Duke. I come from a top-tier consulting firm with amongst the largest recruiting at many top-tier schools. I have seen atleast 3 batches of MBA classes pass while at the firm and I can tell you that some of the Fuqua MBAs I have worked with are smarter and better team players than some of the HBS guys. Again its not a generalization, but just an observation. Your quality is not a complete reflection of the school you goto, it maybe directionally indicative ... the distinction amongst the top 10-12 business schools is very small. In the end, I do agree that if you are good enough, you will do what you want irrespective of where you goto school in the top 10-15 schools. Thats just my 2 cents
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 10:24
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wschaeff

I think that's a little harsh. Honestly, B-school acceptance is so competitive it's almost a crap shoot where you'll get in. So, I'd say getting into HBS is a measure of your ability to get into HBS not necessarily your ability to succeed after it. Or, let me put it a different way - going to Duke or a peer school is not an indictment of your ability to succeed after graduation. Going to HBS will open doors for you and that's why we all want to attend schools of its cailber, but pretty much anyone going to a top 10-15 school can make it afterwords.
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i agree that just getting into a top bschool doesnt guarantee success in the long run. but its more to do with the potential or capability. if you get into a top school, it shows that you can use its resources and fit and make it big....what you finally end up doing depends on how efficiently you use those resources....that's y i really dont compare school to school..but rather band to band...if you go to a school in a top band you have a high probability to get yr dream job than a school in a lower band. you cant compare similar schools to one another since yr success would depend on yr effort...
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 10:26
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[/quote]

My numbers were dead on... I said class of 2010. Didn't realize we were counting internships. And yes, I do remember hearing Duke is now a core school for McKinsey.

Or maybe I'm confused by something you said. If they report 7 Full-time hires from the class of 2010 to McKinsey, that number does not include students who had interned the previous summer? So, it's only students who were hired during their second year?[/quote]

Yes, the full-time hires only indicates people who were hired during 2nd year. I too was initially confused. It does not include interns from the previous summer who eventually landed there. Thats why they added a total column (most schools don't have that column)... the Associate Director of CMC clarified this for me. Fuqua just reports their numbers in a confusing manner.
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 10:28
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Going off the employment report, I counted 12 Fuquans to MBB, 18 to Deloitte, and 8 to Accenture from the class of 2010. 28% of the class works in "consulting".

From my trip down to Durham, one thing I learned about Duke is that "only" 30% of the jobs are obtained through on-campus recruiting and the CMC likes it that way. The way they see it, 90% of companies are small and do not have the resources to recruit on campus.

Duke seems to want their grads to work for smaller companies. So, comparing Fuqua to Wharton isn't quite apples to apples. But if you go to Duke (or anywhere else) and want to go to MBB, etc., the opportunities are there. You just have to make it happen.

https://www.fuquaworld.duke.edu/cmcfile ... s09-10.pdf

Your numbers seem a bit off friend. You did not count the number of people who landed M/B/B or Deloitte through their summer internships. I clarified this same thing with CMC ... you really need to look at the total column for actual folks landing at MBB after graduation from Fuqua in the report. The CMC also told me almost 99% of people from their summers converted their internships in consulting. In fact at McKinsey it was 100% last year, @ BCG and Bain, it was 98%. Also, Fuqua had an influential alumnus join McKinsey's board last year and this year Fuqua will be a core school McKinsey and they expect 20+ hires at the least at M alone - I got this info from the Associate Director of the CMC at the Fuqua reception in NYC.

My numbers were dead on... I said class of 2010. Didn't realize we were counting internships. And yes, I do remember hearing Duke is now a core school for McKinsey.

Or maybe I'm confused by something you said. If they report 7 Full-time hires from the class of 2010 to McKinsey, that number does not include students who had interned the previous summer? So, it's only students who were hired during their second year?
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Yes, the full-time hires only indicates people who were hired during 2nd year. I too was initially confused. It does not include interns from the previous summer who eventually landed there. Thats why they added a total column (most schools don't have that column)... the Associate Director of CMC clarified this for me. Fuqua just reports their numbers in a confusing manner.
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 10:28
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for me the answer is simple....its all a matter of what you're capable of...if you can get into harvard, then you deserve to get the higher placement options (after all thts why youre gunning for harvard in the first place)...but if you cant make it and do get into duke, or any other col, then its basically a reflection of your capability vis-a-vis other candidates and hence you will get placed accordingly....so dont worry abt it...in the end, you'll only get what you can achieve....

I agree and disagree with you ... An Indian dude coming from a top-tier feeder industry at Duke will probably land up doing better than some diversity based acceptance at Harvard bcos the pool he had to navigate was much more difficult and the standards set for him were higher ... so ur theory that anybody at Harvard is better than everybody at Duke maybe be fallacious .... I will agree though that the overall caliber at Harvard maybe a tad bit better than Duke. I come from a top-tier consulting firm with amongst the largest recruiting at many top-tier schools. I have seen atleast 3 batches of MBA classes pass while at the firm and I can tell you that some of the Fuqua MBAs I have worked with are smarter and better team players than some of the HBS guys. Again its not a generalization, but just an observation. Your quality is not a complete reflection of the school you goto, it maybe directionally indicative ... the distinction amongst the top 10-12 business schools is very small. In the end, I do agree that if you are good enough, you will do what you want irrespective of where you goto school in the top 10-15 schools. Thats just my 2 cents
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there will always be exceptions either way..but we tend to look at averages and that's what im talking about...your peer group really determines how well you do later on....if you're around people who are always inspired to challenge the boundaries and succeed in every aspect, then your nature will also be similar....

ps - im not comparing duke with harvard or wharton. i know that the difference is negligible...but im just making a general statement that the quality of the school does matter in terms of the fact that you will be around like minded people who want to make it big and push further. tht will motivate you to put the extra effort too..
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 10:36
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I'd also point out that a number of the top b-schools are trending younger and younger. As an "older" applicant myself, I didn't even bother applying to HBS, Chicago, Northwestern, Wharton, CBS or Stanford, in part, for that reason. I read that several schools are moving in that direction because they believe that younger students are (a) more receptive to the material being taught; and (b) they're more likely to credit their b-school with their future career advancement than are students who have more work experience and are a little older. Personally, I think the trend limits the value of an MBA education. Couple that with the large class size of some of those programs and it wasn't too difficult a decision to pass on applying to them.

Logically, I would think employers would value more work experience when recruiting b-school students, but I haven't seen any evidence that backs that up.
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants Updated on: 09 Mar 2011, 10:45
Originally posted by rpratt620 on 09 Mar 2011, 10:42.
Last edited by rpratt620 on 09 Mar 2011, 10:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Another way to look at the placement is to take into consideration of the # of people going into the firms that you're aiming for with regard to the entire class population. Without any hard data in front of me, I'm going to assume that Wharton places roughly 100 people into M/B/B, and its class population is 800. That's about 12.5% of Wharton consulting folks going into M/B/B (and M/B/B only). That's huge!! If you take a look at Duke, my very raw guess for the # of people going to M/B/B is probably 25, out of a class of 440. That's about 5.6% of Fuqua consulting folks make it into M/B/B. So yes, chances are you will have a higher chance of getting into the top consulting firms at Wharton, but in terms of opportunities you will be able to impress the employers at either school. I used consulting as an example, but you can easily translate that into ibanking, or whatever field you're interested in.

To be precise, 35 people last year - either through summer recruiting or full-time recruiting landed at M/B/B at Fuqua. Thats about 8% of the class. If you add Deloitte and Booz to the mix, its 30 + 5 = 35 more ... So 70 out of 440 at the top 5 seems like pretty strong consulting recruiting to me. Not at all that bad ... so IMHO for main stream areas like consulting / banking / corporate strategy, the difference between Wharton and Duke is very small ... and even smaller with Booth (52 people landed at M/B/B last year out of 580 - thats 8.9%). In fact healthcare and tech firms (like Apple & Microsoft etc) recruit in larger numbers and in % terms at Duke than Booth for corp strategy / gen mgmt positions. So for me, unless you are looking at PE/VC industry or hedge funds, in which case Wharton clearly stands out and Booth is probably a little bit better, I feel the difference is small. Whats most important is your personal fit with the school. If you are good enough, you will land at M/B/B or bulge bracket banks or industry of your choice, irrespective of whether you goto Duke or Booth. Wharton to me is a notch higher (better brand / networks) but again just in terms of post MBA recruiting they are almost the same.
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There is one more data point that needs to be factored in here--% of class going into consulting
rather than say 100 of 800 at Wharton go into MBB, you can further clarify by stating that Wharton sends 29% of it's class into consulting (data from BW) which equates to 232 people at Wharton who went into consulting. Now take the 100 MBB of the 232 people who went into consulting and it actually translates to 43%!

Here are some quick estimates I've made based on the past couple years of data

% of consulting students that select school places at MBB:

HBS, Stanford - NO DATA
Wharton 40-45%
Tuck 30-35%
Darden 20-25%
Ross ~ 20%
Cornell ~ 20%
Duke ~ 15-20%

So, the takeaway here is--yes, some schools place higher at top consulting, i-banking firms, etc, but at the end of the day as long as you get into a "Top" school (about the top 15-16) those opportunities will be available to you, but you will have to bust it to land your dream job!
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 10:48
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i agree...WE is more than Work Experience. Its basically Experience. It teaches you a lot of things. Even I feel a difference in my maturity and understanding as compared to what it was when I just graduated. It is definitely very imp. I come from a country where majority MBA colleges dont really require any WE. everyone just graduates and then immediately joins an MBA without knowing how it would really fit their lives. i am grateful that contrary to popular culture, I waited 4 years before getting my MBA. I now know why I want it and what I can do with it.
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 12:44
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vyomneeraj
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for me the answer is simple....its all a matter of what you're capable of...if you can get into harvard, then you deserve to get the higher placement options (after all thts why youre gunning for harvard in the first place)...but if you cant make it and do get into duke, or any other col, then its basically a reflection of your capability vis-a-vis other candidates and hence you will get placed accordingly....so dont worry abt it...in the end, you'll only get what you can achieve....

I agree and disagree with you ... An Indian dude coming from a top-tier feeder industry at Duke will probably land up doing better than some diversity based acceptance at Harvard bcos the pool he had to navigate was much more difficult and the standards set for him were higher ... so ur theory that anybody at Harvard is better than everybody at Duke maybe be fallacious .... I will agree though that the overall caliber at Harvard maybe a tad bit better than Duke. I come from a top-tier consulting firm with amongst the largest recruiting at many top-tier schools. I have seen atleast 3 batches of MBA classes pass while at the firm and I can tell you that some of the Fuqua MBAs I have worked with are smarter and better team players than some of the HBS guys. Again its not a generalization, but just an observation. Your quality is not a complete reflection of the school you goto, it maybe directionally indicative ... the distinction amongst the top 10-12 business schools is very small. In the end, I do agree that if you are good enough, you will do what you want irrespective of where you goto school in the top 10-15 schools. Thats just my 2 cents
there will always be exceptions either way..but we tend to look at averages and that's what im talking about...your peer group really determines how well you do later on....if you're around people who are always inspired to challenge the boundaries and succeed in every aspect, then your nature will also be similar....

ps - im not comparing duke with harvard or wharton. i know that the difference is negligible...but im just making a general statement that the quality of the school does matter in terms of the fact that you will be around like minded people who want to make it big and push further. tht will motivate you to put the extra effort too..
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H/S/W are great programs that may offer better opportunities in some cases, but I don't think they can be used to speak to one's abilities, which is how I read your original statement, nor should they be used to decide whether someone deserves something more over another (entitlement). I know of a few instances where HBS admits didn't get into other schools that might be considered lower in prestige. There are too many subjective factors that go into the selection process for top schools. You brought up a good point about motivational factors. The act of making a conscious decision to realize one's potential can be done at any MBA program and life in general. I don't think one can also say that students in H/S/W are more inclined to be motivated than those at other schools either. My 2 cents.

Now, aside from a student's academic/professional capabilities, I think the numbers speak for themselves. I think it's really what one makes of the opportunities they are given. Duke along with other schools in the top 10-15 will open doors; one just needs to take the initiative and do what it takes to walk through them.
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 12:53
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I think the topic has gone on so far away from what the OP mentioned. I believe the overall sense is that no where you top in the top 15, the caliber of the students is, most likely, very similar. There's really no guarantees anymore from the top 15 schools as they're all extremely competitive. In terms of job prospects, every top 15 school will most likely give you the same opportunity into the big corporates, but all will require you to do legwork. In addition, chances are the higher the ranking, the higher the percentage one will land an offer with the top firms. In this case, it depends on how one defines "top". But more than likely, Duke will place a smaller proportion of its students into top firms not because the caliber is any lower, but because these top firms opt to provide more spaces for higher-ranked schools.
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 20:37
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vyomneeraj
for me the answer is simple....its all a matter of what you're capable of...if you can get into harvard, then you deserve to get the higher placement options (after all thts why youre gunning for harvard in the first place)...but if you cant make it and do get into duke, or any other col, then its basically a reflection of your capability vis-a-vis other candidates and hence you will get placed accordingly....so dont worry abt it...in the end, you'll only get what you can achieve....

I agree and disagree with you ... An Indian dude coming from a top-tier feeder industry at Duke will probably land up doing better than some diversity based acceptance at Harvard bcos the pool he had to navigate was much more difficult and the standards set for him were higher ... so ur theory that anybody at Harvard is better than everybody at Duke maybe be fallacious .... I will agree though that the overall caliber at Harvard maybe a tad bit better than Duke. I come from a top-tier consulting firm with amongst the largest recruiting at many top-tier schools. I have seen atleast 3 batches of MBA classes pass while at the firm and I can tell you that some of the Fuqua MBAs I have worked with are smarter and better team players than some of the HBS guys. Again its not a generalization, but just an observation. Your quality is not a complete reflection of the school you goto, it maybe directionally indicative ... the distinction amongst the top 10-12 business schools is very small. In the end, I do agree that if you are good enough, you will do what you want irrespective of where you goto school in the top 10-15 schools. Thats just my 2 cents
there will always be exceptions either way..but we tend to look at averages and that's what im talking about...your peer group really determines how well you do later on....if you're around people who are always inspired to challenge the boundaries and succeed in every aspect, then your nature will also be similar....

ps - im not comparing duke with harvard or wharton. i know that the difference is negligible...but im just making a general statement that the quality of the school does matter in terms of the fact that you will be around like minded people who want to make it big and push further. tht will motivate you to put the extra effort too..
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Like the others here, i dont agree the way you generalized the whole idea of better students going to better schools! Yes when you look from afar all the top 15 schools look alike, but when you observe them closely they are as different as your thumb prints. thats why the schools insist on something called "FIT" do you fit in to the school's culture and most importantly is the school the correct 'fit' to fulfill your dreams and aspirations. if what you say is true then perhaps the schools have any easy job on their hand, just select all the students who fall into the 780-800 category! and then let the rest of leftovers get into the 'smaller' schools based on their 'talent'. as per me thats not even generalizing. and the way i saw it after speaking to several students from wharton, (i myself was interviewed for Wharton 2nd round) and other big schools, including Duke where a good friend of mine is a first year student is that the most important factor is will you - "FIT" and not whether you are a hugely talented guy with obscenely awesome resume. no i dont think thats the case. if you were correct then a few of my friends and myself with gmat in the range of 650s should never have received interviews in the first place from the top schools. "FIT" is not an exception but the RULE!
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thashadow
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 20:47
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these are the types of conversations that go on and on when people are waiting for their decisions.

March 25th needs to get here sooner.
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vyomneeraj
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 21:09
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lol...true that theshadow..!!

anyways, just stating my opinion....i hope i didnt offend anyone... :)
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stormbringer
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 21:26
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vyomneeraj
lol...true that theshadow..!!

anyways, just stating my opinion....i hope i didnt offend anyone... :)
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I don't think you offended anyone. We're all sufficiently accomplished and secure here. However, I must say that I disagree with you. I've attended a top liberal arts school in my country, where acceptance rates are below 5% and a top international social sciences institution for graduate school (both in the league of HSW to draw a parallel). There were plenty of people who were driven, intelligent, dynamic and have done very well since graduating but there were also people who were mediocre and haven't leveraged the experience as much and to my mind, are no different (and in some cases are inferior) to people I know from 'lower ranked' schools who I've met professionally or socially. If anything, I have learnt that as long as you are in the upper echelon of schools, it doesn't make a difference. And as an entrepreneur who has broken into an industry that I had no prior experience in, armed with... well, nothing, I have to say my educational pedigree (which I am not belittling - I am proud of it and wouldn't change it for it anything) has little to do with the success I've achieved. Whether I get into Duke or Booth or neither, I'm still going to be very successful in my career.

On the issue of recruitment at Duke, thanks everyone, for sharing all the information you have. :) Much appreciated.
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 09 Mar 2011, 23:23
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thashadow
these are the types of conversations that go on and on when people are waiting for their decisions.

March 25th needs to get here sooner.
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Lots of pointless philosophical back and forth on this thread of late, but I'm glad to see it. Not for the content. Just because it keeps the Duke thread on the first page and reminds me that this dream is still alive. :-D
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 10 Mar 2011, 09:05
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I'm sending back the card to turn down Duke today, it's kind of sad after putting so much effort into getting accepted, but I hope that opens a spot for one of you...good luck!
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thashadow
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Calling All Duke (Fuqua) 2011 Applicants 10 Mar 2011, 09:07
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Michmax3
I'm sending back the card to turn down Duke today, it's kind of sad after putting so much effort into getting accepted, but I hope that opens a spot for one of you...good luck!
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You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar.

Come on Fuqua!!!
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