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Gryphon
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 07 Mar 2011, 16:21
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Congrats man. That's got to be quite a load off. Ross is a very strong program, however I would be lying if I said I knew much about it. For whatever reason, Ross and Fuqua seem to get a little bit less attention than some of the other schools out there. I guess it ultimately depends on what you want to do and perhaps where you want to work. Ross has very strong placement throughout the midwest. It's somewhat regional in the same sense that Haas is very good on the west coast, but significantly weaker in terms of alumni network once you get away from the west.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 07 Mar 2011, 16:35
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Guys-

I have been following the military threads for awhile here and I appreciate all the good info.

My background: USAF Captain, 7 years. I fly the B-1B bomber, 2 deployments to Afghanistan. 3.9 GPA from Texas A&M. Currently studying for the GMAT. Married with a non-working wife and a 3 year old daughter.

I have a dilemma and I would really appreciate some advice. I have been planning to separate from the USAF in 2013 and apply to top MBA programs then. However, the USAF just came out with a voluntary separation program where I could basically separate this October (2011) and they will pay me $60,000 to get out. I am leaning towards taking the money and separating. The only problem is that I have missed the cutoffs to apply for this year and would have to start school in 2012. The latest I can separate is October 1 this year. This leaves me unemployed until next school year. I am considering applying for Columbia's J-term but I know this is not meant for career switchers, so I doubt that I will get accepted.

I live in Abilene, TX which is a town of about 100,000 and there are not really any good prospects for meaningful work until I start school in 2012. The money will last me the whole year but I don't want to do irreparable damage to my resume by not working for 10 months or doing a meaningless job that might hurt me in the future. However, if I wait til 2013, I will get no money to separate and a couple more deployments, which I do not want.

What do you guys think? Is it worth it to take the cash and separate? Will not working damage my career chances in the future? Thanks!
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 07 Mar 2011, 16:36
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Huge load off. Today was a good day. I think you're right in terms of the school being a regional power first. I saw that in 2010 they placed only 4% of their graduates in the southeast and 5% in the mid-Atlantic. I'm guessing if I want to work in the southeast, Darden is a far superior choice.

But hey, good to be in somewhere.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 07 Mar 2011, 17:10
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Congrats to all the recent admits!

steven8669

What do you guys think? Is it worth it to take the cash and separate? Will not working damage my career chances in the future? Thanks!
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Have you considered getting in touch with one of the JMO recruiters? Depending on what you're ok with, there could be a short turnaround time to finding a decent new position. However, as you would expect, that most likely means having to move. In my opinion, if you can work for at least a year that would be career enhancing (meaning you'd probably have to start while on terminal leave).

This is a tough decision but it definitely sounds like you're carefully weighing your options.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 07 Mar 2011, 17:18
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gregarious
Congrats to all the recent admits!

steven8669

What do you guys think? Is it worth it to take the cash and separate? Will not working damage my career chances in the future? Thanks!

Have you considered getting in touch with one of the JMO recruiters? Depending on what you're ok with, there could be a short turnaround time to finding a decent new position. However, as you would expect, that most likely means having to move. In my opinion, if you can work for at least a year that would be career enhancing (meaning you'd probably have to start while on terminal leave).

This is a tough decision but it definitely sounds like you're carefully weighing your options.
Show more

I am not sure that the JMO recruiters would have anything for Abilene. We also own our house in Abilene, so I really don't want to try to find a renter and then move somewhere else only to move again to start school. I considered applying for UT's weekend program but I don't think this will get me into M/B/B consulting jobs. It's really a tough situation, probably one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make and I need to decide if I want to get out by Wednesday.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 07 Mar 2011, 17:27
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i would get out and look into a broadening experience, i am not exactly sure what area of texas but I know Dell, Amazon, Deloitte, Sears Holdings, and other companies have strong jmo opportunities.

I know GE has a good program and a location in Houston : https://www.gepower.com/about/careers/en ... s/jolp.htm

I know these seem random but there is alot out there, if you research a little bit, I think you will find some great stuff. I will look as much as I can to help you out also.

I would also sign up for a GMAT course, destroy that thing and maybe take an accounting class or other related class to bolster your total package.

I think working for a year would help you refine what you want out of your MBA. I highly considered it but decided to go straight for MBA.

Take care
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 07 Mar 2011, 17:41
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steven8669
Guys-

I have been following the military threads for awhile here and I appreciate all the good info.

My background: USAF Captain, 7 years. I fly the B-1B bomber, 2 deployments to Afghanistan. 3.9 GPA from Texas A&M. Currently studying for the GMAT. Married with a non-working wife and a 3 year old daughter.

I have a dilemma and I would really appreciate some advice. I have been planning to separate from the USAF in 2013 and apply to top MBA programs then. However, the USAF just came out with a voluntary separation program where I could basically separate this October (2011) and they will pay me $60,000 to get out. I am leaning towards taking the money and separating. The only problem is that I have missed the cutoffs to apply for this year and would have to start school in 2012. The latest I can separate is October 1 this year. This leaves me unemployed until next school year. I am considering applying for Columbia's J-term but I know this is not meant for career switchers, so I doubt that I will get accepted.

I live in Abilene, TX which is a town of about 100,000 and there are not really any good prospects for meaningful work until I start school in 2012. The money will last me the whole year but I don't want to do irreparable damage to my resume by not working for 10 months or doing a meaningless job that might hurt me in the future. However, if I wait til 2013, I will get no money to separate and a couple more deployments, which I do not want.

What do you guys think? Is it worth it to take the cash and separate? Will not working damage my career chances in the future? Thanks!
Show more

If you know what you want to do post-MBA, which sounds like consulting, you may consider tapping your A&M Alumni Network, looking for guys that are in consulting companies right now...even if it's just a boutique firm. Tell them you plan to apply and that you'd like to work in whatever capacity they can offer you.

I have a friend that separated from the Army (he was Special Forces) in November one year and got a low paying gig with a financial services firm before matriculating at Tepper. It was fine for him. Worst case, you can't get a job that you really like and you gut it out for a year, explain it to the Admissions Committee in your application: "Hey, a unique opportunity came up and I took it." I don't think they can really hold it against you as a bomber pilot. If anything, I would think they would appreciate that they're seeing your app now and not in 2-3 years when you're that much older and more difficult for them to rationalize accepting into a class.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 07 Mar 2011, 17:53
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USAA has a JMO, too, and is ranked #17 on Forbes' top 100 employers. Not a bad way to go for officer types. I am wishing I had applied to McCombs now, because I would really love to work with USAA...

wp06
i would get out and look into a broadening experience, i am not exactly sure what area of texas but I know Dell, Amazon, Deloitte, Sears Holdings, and other companies have strong jmo opportunities.

I know GE has a good program and a location in Houston : https://www.gepower.com/about/careers/en ... s/jolp.htm

I know these seem random but there is alot out there, if you research a little bit, I think you will find some great stuff. I will look as much as I can to help you out also.

I would also sign up for a GMAT course, destroy that thing and maybe take an accounting class or other related class to bolster your total package.

I think working for a year would help you refine what you want out of your MBA. I highly considered it but decided to go straight for MBA.

Take care
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 07 Mar 2011, 19:16
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steven8669

What do you guys think? Is it worth it to take the cash and separate? Will not working damage my career chances in the future? Thanks!
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You should be able to finish the applications before leaving the Air Force, so it shouldn't hurt your chances of getting in. Maybe there's some contractor-type job you can scam for a year. A top school should give you the access to employers you need and they'll understand your situation.

Good luck!
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 08 Mar 2011, 20:08
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Thanks guys for all the great advice! I filled out the separation paperwork today. I think I will just try to scam a contractor job on base once I get out until next school year starts.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 15 Mar 2011, 01:49
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Just want to throw out an update. Following my HBS ding wasn't expecting much. I was really hopeful for Kellogg, but getting more of a feeling that I wasn't going to make NYU.. well, early this morning, as I was rolling out of my rack to drive over to the armory to start setting up some TMO shipments of our battalion's gear, I checked my e-mail and found out that I was accepted to Kellogg!! It's a dream come true! I have been praying and been very anxious these past couple weeks, but trusted that God had it in control, and in control indeed he had.

I would've really liked to get into HBS, but I think it would've been more for the brand name. I was really attracted to Kellogg and NYU, but now that I got accepted, this is just fantastic. I also found out last month I qualify for 100% of the Gi bill so I have to start getting on the Yellow Ribbon program. Does anyone know how many people you know have gotten it (I know they give 50 people - am really depending on that to pay for costs).

Anyway, just wanted to share that with this group! My stats are in previous posts if you're curious - basically, didn't get in based on my GMAT score!
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 15 Mar 2011, 05:55
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that is great news, i think two other guys on here made it to kellogg, i wish i applied but too far from my wife and my family so didnt pull the trigger

great job!
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 15 Mar 2011, 06:14
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Anyone else get the feeling that schools are making a concerted effort to increase their military numbers this year? Just between me and one other admitted Marine I met at Days at Haas, we increased Haas' Marine population from 0 to 2. I also met a former Navy girl in the R1 admit group, when the Haas Vets Club population is only about 10 for first and second years combined.

It looks like guys on this thread are, for the most part, getting into the schools they targeted. My profile isn't spectacular by either Haas or Anderson's standards but they both offered me scholarships, so my take was that I got a lot of extra credit for my service time.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 15 Mar 2011, 06:19
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yea i definitely did not expect an nyu scholarship with a 700 GMAT, but def felt great esp after mit didnt work out

i am just waiting on wharton, darden, and yale for next week and then looking forward to planning the transition and moving out of the south haha
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 15 Mar 2011, 07:10
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Hey everyone, a bit off topic but I'm hoping someone might have some advice. I'm using the GI Bill (post 9/11) and can't get paid for the GMAT. I have taken it twice, and sent in the DA form both times, also had my undergrad institution's VA send the form in. I have also posted a question on the website for a counselor and havn't heard anything. I know the GI Bill rules have changed a couple times but they always included test reimbursement as far as I can tell. I also know they will pay for it one, and only one time. If anyone has gotten reimbursed and can shed some light on how they got paid I'd appreciate it.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 15 Mar 2011, 07:37
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sorry i just used my ed center on post, not much help from me, do u live near any posts where you could call their education center?
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 15 Mar 2011, 09:55
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emont
Anyone else get the feeling that schools are making a concerted effort to increase their military numbers this year? Just between me and one other admitted Marine I met at Days at Haas, we increased Haas' Marine population from 0 to 2. I also met a former Navy girl in the R1 admit group, when the Haas Vets Club population is only about 10 for first and second years combined.

It looks like guys on this thread are, for the most part, getting into the schools they targeted. My profile isn't spectacular by either Haas or Anderson's standards but they both offered me scholarships, so my take was that I got a lot of extra credit for my service time.
Show more

I think Haas has struggled to get military members because California paid so little for the GI Bill in the past. Now that full tuition and fees are covered, I think Haas, Anderson, and USC will start getting more military applicants. I was interested in Haas and USC until I realized it would cost 30K+ more per year than going to a school like Ross. If I knew about the GI Bill changes, I probably would have applied to Haas because my wife and I ultimately want to live on the West Coast.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 15 Mar 2011, 10:37
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"We have professional development reading lists for a reason..." said the boss somewhat recently.

Though I won't even be applying until this fall, it got me thinking about what sort of reading I could do in my spare time to "level the playing field" with potential B-School classmates who are decidely less familiar with the bottleneck that is Ali A-Salim (LSA) in Kuwait, and more attuned to businessy type stuff involving markets, risk, management, etc. These are a few books I've read that I think are pretty colorful and and explain some of the more complex, esoteric concepts in easier to understand language. I think that events leading up to and occurring during the recession will be the basis for a lot of case studies or other class discussions so it might be prudent to perform a sort of IPB. And even if those events aren't a part of the instructor's agenda, you can always count on people steering discussion toward what they want to talk about so as to maximize class participation points.

1. The Big Short by Michael Lewis.
Lewis is bar none the most colorful author in the finance sector. He was a trader for Solomon Brothers in the 80s, but left because he felt like it was all BS. This book analyzes events leading up to the collapse of the mortgage market through the lens of six individuals: Jeffrey Greene (Southern California real estate mogul), John Paulson (previously thought to be a mediocre hedge fund guy), Greg Lippman (Deutsche bank trader), Michael Burry (stock picker who didn't tell his investors that he took their money and started investing in insurance that banks would need if the mortgage market crashed), some random smart dudes that started making a little bit of money by betting on outlier events from their basement in Berkeley and ultimately made about $100 million, and three guys operating a small hedge fund in NYC who had a really cynical world view and profited enormously.

Burry's really just an interesting guy to learn about. He suffered from some sort of degenerative disease as a child so a doctor removed one of his eyes and gave him a fake eyeball. He developed an aversion to interacting with people because they thought he was weird because "he never looked you in the eye." As a result, he fell in love with things that wouldn't judge him: computers, math, science. He was in residency at Stanford Hospital and blogging at night about his stock picks. He dropped out of his residency program because he realized he couldn't even feign interest in the problems of his patients. He immediately started an investment firm that amounted to him just picking stocks. It was a hedge fund, but geared toward value investing stocks (i.e. not trading). He was able to identify the market bubble and started buying up insurance that big banks would need to protect their positions if things went south in the mortgage market. When his investors found out they demanded their money back, but they were contractually obligated to keep most their money in. He had to give some back and fire his staff because he wasn't making much from 05-07. Finally, he cashed in big time during Fall 07, sent the money back to his inital investors (and told them off), closed down his fund, and retired.
The story about Lippman is pretty entertaining too. It goes something like this according to one prospective client: "So he comes in and he has the Chinese guy with him. Eugene was his name. Eugene came in second place in some math competition in China. Lippman liked to emphasize that Eugene was the second best mathemetician in all of China. Eugene didn't speak English, just math. So Lippman starts telling us about all this great deal he has for us to buy insurance. We couldn't really argue that it wasn't a good deal. When the second best mathemetician in China says the numbers check out, what are you going to say? So we think it's pretty good, but Lippman controls most of the market so we can get into it easily, but how do we get out if he controls the market? That's when he literally says, 'This is the best part. When you want to get out of the pool I'm going to toss you a towel and rip your eyeballs out.' He literally said that and then expected us to invest. He was so transparent that we thought there was something mentally off. He said we would make a little money, but that he would rape us for most of that. So basically we had to accede to eyball removal in order to make a few bucks. We wanted to make money, but not have our eyeballs removed so we decided not to invest."

2. Too Big To Fail by Aaron Sorkin. Pretty much a blow by blow account of events leading up to the fall of Lehman Brothers and how it affected all the other banks, government institutions, etc. Very detailed and probably shouldn't be your first read if you're not already familiar with some of the terminology. Still very entertaining.

3. Moneyball by Michael Lewis. Not exactly a business book, but a very interesting book about how Billy Beane, GM for the Oakland A's, has built competitive baseball teams on a shoe string budget by engaging in statistical analysis (sabermetrics) that goes beyond things like batting average, home runs, etc. The real takeaway is that traditional analysis in each field/sector is usually superficial and not a very accurate harbinger of what's to come. Because the A's owners are so stingy, Beane has learned to build quality teams with less money by trading for young talent that has the right characteristics as defined by him. For instance, Beane and his scouts place tremendous emphasis on the number of walks, strikeouts, and pitches seen per at bat. The rationale for emphasis on walks and strikeouts is that you can't teach a batter to be disciplined at the plate. They either have an intuitive understanding of the strike zone or they don't. The metric for determining whether a player understands the strike zone is his walks and strikeouts. Walks and strikeouts are also a critical determinants in on base percentage which Beane argues is more important than batting average because it doesn't matter how you get to first, just that you get there and are now in a position to circle the bags and score (slugging percentage is his other big offensive stat). Beane also places emphasis on pitches seen per at bat because if each batter sees two pitches more per at bat the batter gathers more data points and the pitcher starts wearing down at an increased rate. Beane presupposes that you want to get to the relief pitchers as soon as possible because relief pitchers are in relief because, well, they weren't good enough to be starters. As for pitchers, Beane believes that they are nothing, but a crapshoot so you just acquire as many as possible and hope some of them are good. Any trade involving the A's always involves them receiving a young pitcher. Very rare to seem them trade for only position players.

4. Books by Michael Porter. Usually called Comptetive Strategy or Competitive Advantage. More academic in nature. He teaches at HBS...or did.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 15 Mar 2011, 11:40
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Gryphon,

I'll second The Big Short and include Liar's Poker, also written by Lewis. It's an account of his time as a trader with Salomon Brothers in the 1980s before, during, and after the first sub-prime lending disaster. It details an atmosphere with significant similarities to the military.

As for levelling the playing field, I'm not at business school yet, but it's pretty easy to guess what might help those of us without business backgrounds. Most schools offer quantitative and accounting refresher courses during the summer leading up to business school, so those are areas where students probably struggle. Schools don't demand a business background as a prereq for admission, but you could probably make the first semester much easier by taking a calc class, a finance class, and an accounting class ahead of time to familiarize youself with basic terminology and accounting. Just a thought.
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Gryphon
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 15 Mar 2011, 11:57
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piggles
Gryphon,

I'll second The Big Short and include Liar's Poker, also written by Lewis. It's an account of his time as a trader with Salomon Brothers in the 1980s before, during, and after the first sub-prime lending disaster. It details an atmosphere with significant similarities to the military.

As for levelling the playing field, I'm not at business school yet, but it's pretty easy to guess what might help those of us without business backgrounds. Most schools offer quantitative and accounting refresher courses during the summer leading up to business school, so those are areas where students probably struggle. Schools don't demand a business background as a prereq for admission, but you could probably make the first semester much easier by taking a calc class, a finance class, and an accounting class ahead of time to familiarize youself with basic terminology and accounting. Just a thought.
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Thanks. Yes, Liar's Poker is another good one. Definitely need to take an accounting class (or two) at some point. Probably going to take a stats class or redo calc at a local JC to show the adcom that I can handle that work and my undergrad math grades the first two years were attributable to laziness/focus on sports. Plan to highlight my engineering grades the last two years of school to augment this part of the app...and try to get a better quant score on the GMAT. I have been taking a Charlie Sheenesque "bi-winning" approach to data sufficiency problems, but apparently the answer isn't always "D: each statement is sufficient".
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