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MateoLibre
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 25 Mar 2011, 13:19
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wp06
in at darden, wharton, and yale this week ; anybody considering any of these schools?

of course they all have the same damn admitted students weekend
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Yes. I made up my mind on Darden. I'm canceling my trip to Austin for my McCombs interview and I'm going to withdraw my application. I'm also planning on making the trip from Tacoma to Charlottesville for Darden Days.

On a separate note, today was the day I did my "final out". I am now officially on terminal leave. Booyah! What a great week.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 25 Mar 2011, 13:25
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Great points animal. I would add that the very hierarchy of the military means he has probably been in some leadership position nearly the entire time he has been in. The Wharton behavioral questions: Tell me about a time you showed leadership, tell be about a time you resolved conflict between team members etc... are slam dunks for nearly any military applicant. International experience on deployment is great especially with the more global focus of MBA programs (look at Dean Nohrita, born in India and now running HBS).

Outside help: HIGHLY recommended. Military applicants seem to want to do everything themselves, even when someone else can do it better for a price. Worse, we don't have many peers in the service who even know what a 'good' resume looks like, nevermind actually HAVE one! There are very affordable resume writing services that will save you hours of headaches. It's like changing the oil in your car- sure you could do it yourself, but it's messy and you've got other things to worry about.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 25 Mar 2011, 17:02
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Dahhhhh I'm going out of my mind waiting for HBS to release on Tuesday!!!!!! Anyone else sharing my misery? Hopefully there will be some military guys representing in Cambridge this year.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 25 Mar 2011, 17:37
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In at Wharton!

you going to welcome weekend,i was accepted as well

im going to the vets brunch on sunday, will you be there?
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Yeah, man. I'm planning on being there. I am trying to get my PCS/Separation paperwork in order right now, but I should be gtg by the 14th. I will see you there.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 25 Mar 2011, 18:23
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Dahhhhh I'm going out of my mind waiting for HBS to release on Tuesday!!!!!! Anyone else sharing my misery? Hopefully there will be some military guys representing in Cambridge this year.
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I'm with you, but at the same time it looks like we both have backup plans in place so the stress level is way down compared to where I was at the R1 notification dates. I feel a little weird thinking of Kellogg or Haas as my "safety" schools right now because I definitely wasn't banking on getting into either (much less both) of them.

I'm glad I'm on west coast time though, which means my anticipation should be over with one way or another by around 9am or so.

HBS will definitely take their share of military guys--I think one of the first-years I talked to said they've got 45-50 vets in both 2011 and 2012. Most schools seem to be pretty vet-friendly these days but HBS looks like they go above and beyond.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 25 Mar 2011, 18:47
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emont
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Dahhhhh I'm going out of my mind waiting for HBS to release on Tuesday!!!!!! Anyone else sharing my misery? Hopefully there will be some military guys representing in Cambridge this year.

I'm with you, but at the same time it looks like we both have backup plans in place so the stress level is way down compared to where I was at the R1 notification dates. I feel a little weird thinking of Kellogg or Haas as my "safety" schools right now because I definitely wasn't banking on getting into either (much less both) of them.

I'm glad I'm on west coast time though, which means my anticipation should be over with one way or another by around 9am or so.

HBS will definitely take their share of military guys--I think one of the first-years I talked to said they've got 45-50 vets in both 2011 and 2012. Most schools seem to be pretty vet-friendly these days but HBS looks like they go above and beyond.
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Was anyone else at the HBS prospective military student day in March? They really rolled out the red carpet and made us feel like HBS truly values veterans and our life experience. I had not received invitations to such veteran events at any other school I applied to or was considering, and the fact that HBS spent considerable time, money, and energy to hold an event like that impressed me greatly.

Any notion that HBS holds some sort of liberal prejudice against military candidates was completely eliminated after my visit. Their guest speakers (military HBS alums) and current veteran student panel spoke very passionately about the school and its fit for military candidates. There was even a presentation by a professor on the military roots of Harvard Business School and the university's longtime connections to the armed forces.

If you are up to speed on the recent surge in veteran employment efforts and the decline of traditional applicant admits (banking/PE/etc) this past year at top MBA programs, I think it bodes well for strong military candidates who might have a shot at getting into schools they might otherwise have been dinged from in earlier seasons. While there is great speculation as to why this is so, the bottom line is the military 'brand' is stronger than it has ever been in recent times for getting into some of these top programs.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 25 Mar 2011, 18:59
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well said, and i think we really earned our brand though, we all had to lead in some incredible circumstances and now we have the opportunity to make an impact in other sectors

i think the top schools know one day they might see us leadng organizations, government agencies etc because of the motivation and energy we draw from combat
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 26 Mar 2011, 03:30
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It would be sweet to go to school with Tyra Banks. I saw on the little CNN ticker she's going to HBS this upcoming year. I'm not sure if she's doing the full time program because while HBS doesn't have an EMBA they do have other executive education programs that run like 6 weeks in residency. You get a little certificate at the end, but you'r not an HBS alum obviously.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 26 Mar 2011, 07:58
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I never got the impression that HBS wasn't supportive of the military--they've always had a respectable military population from what I've gathered, so the whole mess with the Ivy Leagues kicking ROTC off the campus in the late 60s are completely unrelated. The "three M's" have supposedly always had a big representation at HBS--military, McKinsey, and Mormons--and I'd never heard any stories of HBS vets having any problems at Cambridge. It tends to be the undergrads and baby boomer-era faculty who have the strongest anti-military leanings.

I got the same impression even during my visits at Berkeley. That school/town gets a bad rap from what happened in the 60s and the Code Pink nutjobs, but those groups represent the tiny lunatic fringe. I saw a handful of random protests going on around campus as I walked to Haas, but it clearly wasn't Haas students involved in them. A large part of the Berkeley anti-military and leftist crowd isn't even involved with the school in any way, they're just in Berkeley because they think it's the place to be for those type of movements. Everyone I met at Haas, students and staff alike, was receptive of military and almost seemed embarrassed that their vet population was so low. The other Marine who was at the admit weekend with me would say the same thing--we ended up having to tell our story about a million times each because everyone seemed interested in our experiences. From what I can tell Haas (and UCLA as well) are making a strong effort to attract more military for this fall and follow-on years. Hell, the vets club even had their own table at the "diversity pre-reception" with all the other minority groups (Hispanics, Asians, Jewish, women, LGBT, disabled, etc.), at which I took full advantage of drinking their free beer given that it was probably the only time this white Southern male will ever be considered a minority at anything.

I think MBA programs may have had a stretch where they didn't regard military candidates as highly as they should have, but opinions have changed as evidenced by stuff like the Fortune magazine article from last year about how CEOs love hiring junior officers after they EAS. They don't really care that we don't have business-specific knowledge because they figure it's easier to teach us that stuff than it is to teach a finance/accounting whiz how to lead and motivate people in stressful situations without compromising their integrity. Maybe for some reason schools had trouble placing military MBAs in jobs in the past, but now they're seeing we're in high demand in the workforce so that's increased their willingness to give us a chance. I had several people tell me one of the main purposes of the interview for MBA admission is so adcom can answer the question of "will we be able to place this guy in a job two years from now?" Schools care about job placement stats quite a bit so that would make sense to tie military admissions with the likelihood of us being in demand by top firms.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 27 Mar 2011, 15:11
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For what it's worth, I grew up in Berkely so I 'd say you hit the nail on the head: the city is extremely liberal, however Cal itself really doesn't lean left to a greater extent than any other high quality institution in its peer group.

When you really break it down, business schools in general are more conservative in nature than other elements of academia. Fundamentally they're talking about people and organizations...sounds a lot like the military right?

I think the interview is weighted more heavily for military applicants than others because it does ultimately come down to employability. "Can we place this guy?" Whereas our peers in the private sector have already proven that they can coexist in organizations that aren't 90% guys and focused on expediting the removal of nefarious actors from this earth, the burden of proof is on us to show that we can do what they've already done.

And while I haven't gone through the application process myself, I've reached out to a handful of consultants for those free one hour diagnostics and they all generally say what Emont and others ahve already said: "B-schools will overlook some of a military applicant's quantifiable shortcomings (i.e. GMAT and/or GPA) because you have leadership experience that your peer group doeesn't. Not to mention, you haven't been using a lot of math or sentence correction in your current job. They can't really quantify your leadership experience, but it's one of those intangible things that they value. Realistically, they know that they aren't going to take a non-leader and in two years turn them into a leader. They have all these glossy pamphlets that use the right buzz words, but at the end of the day they are just branding you with their school's name. You have to have that 'leaderish' dimension/disposition to begin with. They can teach spreadsheets and accounting. They can't take a 26 year-old spreadsheet jockey from JPMorgan that doesn't like to be out front and responsible/accountable and change him a lot. They spend a lot of time trying to identify the bankers and consultants that already have the leadership gene. That's less a problem with the military crowd." Because I've never really worked outside of the military environment I didn't realize how I really differed from other people, but just in taking my GMAT class you can tell there's a difference because of what we've been asked to do for the last 4-5 years. I'm not an Infantry or fighter pilot type. I do intel, which probably requires a less aggressive leadership style, but even within my little class of 10 people I'm the one that's most able/willing to speak in an authoritative tone and explicitly outline my thoughts. I don't think we're better than our private sector peers, but I think we're different and this is one aspect that's different. Most of us have been in charge of something beyond ourselves. I don't know how much that exists in the private sector.

With respect to HBS, couple of these consultant guys I've spoken with have also helped me understand the seemingly significant disparity in military representation at HBS vs. Stanford. The one guy really said it's mostly about cultures. HBS is taking a sort of "throw spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks approach. 940 people per class. They're less concerned with whether each individual succeeds. It's just a numbers game to them. If 20 people in each class go on to do great things that's enough to keep the money flowing, the acclaim, and put some personal testimonials in the glossy pages of the admissions stuff. HBS requires you to be the alpha-male and as a result, it's considered less female friendly. A woman, on average, is going to feel less welcome. She would have to be very assertive in the face of all the men to get the same value out of it. And HBS is mindful of it's military applicant pool. They have several goals for how they want to put the class together. They might not admit it, but they're trying to hit a sweet spot of somewhere between 35-50. Now contrast that with Stanford. Stanford's criteria for putting together a class consists of one thing: make it the best class possible. They sincerely believe that every student should be successful and they define 'best' as creating an environment in which every student will succeed. They want some military folks, but it won't break their heart if they don't have a lot. They might set the low bar at 8. But they might be willing to go up to 25 if they like 25 military folks that much. In other words, the minimum they're trying to meet is much lower, but the max number they're willing to take into their smaller population is such that if they maxed it out that number would comprise a greater percentage of their overall class than the max 50 at HBS. And because Stanford wants everyone to be successful, it means they want a more inclusive, softer approach. That's why it's considered a woman friendly school. Military guys might have to dial down the intensity a bit when they apply to Stanford. They need to emphasize different things."

I thought that was a rather interesting take on things. He seemed to know his stuff. If anyone can confirm/deny or otherwise add to the body of evidence I'd love to hear it.

Good luck to those waiting on HBS.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 27 Mar 2011, 15:52
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emont
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Dahhhhh I'm going out of my mind waiting for HBS to release on Tuesday!!!!!! Anyone else sharing my misery? Hopefully there will be some military guys representing in Cambridge this year.

I'm with you, but at the same time it looks like we both have backup plans in place so the stress level is way down compared to where I was at the R1 notification dates. I feel a little weird thinking of Kellogg or Haas as my "safety" schools right now because I definitely wasn't banking on getting into either (much less both) of them.

I'm glad I'm on west coast time though, which means my anticipation should be over with one way or another by around 9am or so.

HBS will definitely take their share of military guys--I think one of the first-years I talked to said they've got 45-50 vets in both 2011 and 2012. Most schools seem to be pretty vet-friendly these days but HBS looks like they go above and beyond.
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Yeah, I'm right there with ya emont. Kellogg was my top-choice, but I decided to toss in HBS at the last minute just because I had all the material together and I figured 'ahhh what the hell, why not'. I feel completely secure whichever way it goes, and I count myself lucky for even having an admit at this point, especially after seeing the zero-admits thread.

In other news, I've pretty much replayed my HBS interview over in my head so many times now that I have concluded that I am doomed for tuesday :-D
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 27 Mar 2011, 15:58
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Sounds pretty spot-on to me.

Different, not better or worse, makes sense.

And I've heard some similar stuff about HBS vs. Stanford from students at each school, so that seems to be accurate too.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 28 Mar 2011, 07:03
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Anybody attending Go Blue Rendezvous at Ross?
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 28 Mar 2011, 11:35
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Gryphon
It would be sweet to go to school with Tyra Banks. I saw on the little CNN ticker she's going to HBS this upcoming year. I'm not sure if she's doing the full time program because while HBS doesn't have an EMBA they do have other executive education programs that run like 6 weeks in residency. You get a little certificate at the end, but you'r not an HBS alum obviously.
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Tyra Banks is an annoying blowhard, I can't believe they would even let her in. That's almost worse than Bush during Vietnam. Maybe she will wear a fat-suit the whole time.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 28 Mar 2011, 16:15
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theacademist
emont
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Dahhhhh I'm going out of my mind waiting for HBS to release on Tuesday!!!!!! Anyone else sharing my misery? Hopefully there will be some military guys representing in Cambridge this year.

I'm with you, but at the same time it looks like we both have backup plans in place so the stress level is way down compared to where I was at the R1 notification dates. I feel a little weird thinking of Kellogg or Haas as my "safety" schools right now because I definitely wasn't banking on getting into either (much less both) of them.

I'm glad I'm on west coast time though, which means my anticipation should be over with one way or another by around 9am or so.

HBS will definitely take their share of military guys--I think one of the first-years I talked to said they've got 45-50 vets in both 2011 and 2012. Most schools seem to be pretty vet-friendly these days but HBS looks like they go above and beyond.

Yeah, I'm right there with ya emont. Kellogg was my top-choice, but I decided to toss in HBS at the last minute just because I had all the material together and I figured 'ahhh what the hell, why not'. I feel completely secure whichever way it goes, and I count myself lucky for even having an admit at this point, especially after seeing the zero-admits thread.

In other news, I've pretty much replayed my HBS interview over in my head so many times now that I have concluded that I am doomed for tuesday :-D
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academist, why did you think you blew your HBS interview? Most people I knew at the interview (civilian and military) all said they came out feeling unsure of how the interview went. You don't need to knock the interview out of the park, just make sure they don't think you are crazy /egomaniac / antisocial / someone who wouldn't contribute to case method process.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 29 Mar 2011, 05:47
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all the vets waiting for HBS good luck, i did not have the time/ did not strategize well enough to knock it out

i wish you all the best!
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 29 Mar 2011, 15:56
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I know several schools were announcing R2 admits yesterday and today--anyone get any good news?
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 29 Mar 2011, 16:01
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wharton last week, where do you think you are headed? you have some awesome options
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 29 Mar 2011, 16:08
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I really liked everything about Haas (and the money they offered me) but I can't imagine turning down HBS at this point.
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Calling all US Military Fall 2011 Applicants! 29 Mar 2011, 17:13
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Emont -- Congrats on HBS!! I got dinged today and am super jealous!

In response to the question about why I felt like (and apparently did) blow my HBS interview - unemployment. Had a civilian job offer and start date when I submitted, but I later turned that down after later learning the company had major run ins with the law. The interviewer jumped all over it from the get-go (10mins worth), before moving onto more genial questions. Other than that, I OWNED the interview - I know it. So it had to be the job situation.

In retrospect, I think I was done in those 10 mins - the interviewer knew I was a ding but couldn't walk out, so I just had easy questions after that.

Lessons to be learned - Don't apply unemployed.

Stats: 750 GMAT, 3.6 GPA, AF Officer with very major contributions in Iraq, very strong EC's
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