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For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da

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Hahahehe
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Re: For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da [#permalink] For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da   12 Aug 2020, 08:36
AndrewN wrote:
Hahahehe wrote:
Hi AndrewN,

I feel everyone is trying to avoid the main question being posed by option E, and just driving the debate towards idling and driving. What we really want to know is, that if at the moment, some buses are driving around because of lack of parking space, then wouldn't building of new parking spaces help, as these buses will be able to park themselves there with engines turned off ?

Hi, Hahahehe. (I typically say "hello," but with your name, I could not resist the wordplay.) I like that you are not taking Expert responses for granted and are choosing instead to write about your concerns. To speak to the point you have brought up, choice (E) presents an unqualified could-be-true scenario: we do not know what may be meant by some. So that we do not lose track of the task at hand, we should examine the question and relevant answer choices again:

Quote:
Which of the following, if true, most strongly supports the argument?
(C) Tour buses typically spend less than one-quarter of the time they are in Palitito transporting passengers from one site to another.
(E) Some of the tour buses that are unable to find parking drive around Palitito while their passengers are visiting a site.


The problem with choice (E), as I see it, is that we cannot make heads or tails of some, and this is a common trap that the GMAT™ question-writers like to employ. As long as we are talking about more than one bus, some would be applicable. But does that necessarily translate to most strongly supporting the argument, namely that damage to Palitito's buildings from the buses' exhaust will diminish significantly? For the sake of argument, let us say that the fleet of tour buses in the Palitito area consists of 1,000 buses. Some could refer to two of them. Maybe these very buses would always be able to park in the assigned parking spaces, but would the damage to the buildings caused by such buses diminish significantly because of it? I am not convinced. Although it could be true that several hundred buses fit into this some, we cannot say for sure. Choice (C), meanwhile, informs us about all tour buses: they typically spend less than one-quarter of the time... so we can deduce that they spend more than three-quarters of the time either parked or idling. The passage goes out of its way to inform us that because of the lack of available parking, most buses have idled at the curb. If parking is expanded to accommodate a third of the tour buses, then, using the same 1,000 buses from before, we now have a guarantee that at least 333 buses will have a place to park at any given time. The GMAT™ likes to deal in certainties, and the reduction in the collective exhaust from these 333 buses is a better bet than the potential reduction from some buses in (E).

Does that make sense? This is a nightmare of a question for the uninitiated, but once you have gone through a gauntlet of such questions and taken the time to unravel them, you emerge much more attuned to the nuances of the test. Thank you again for calling my attention to this one.

- Andrew


Dear AndrewN,

Haha, I agree, it's a username that probably puts a smile on everyone's face.

Thank you so much for clarifying. This makes complete sense. What I learned is that "some" should be interpreted as "at least one", and that certainly cannot have "significant impact". You are right, the more we practice, more critically we'll be able to evaluate and know the test makers' tricks.

Thank you again for the prompt reply and resolving the confusion :)
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Re: For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da [#permalink] For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da   12 Aug 2020, 17:43
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Hahahehe wrote:
Dear AndrewN,

Haha, I agree, it's a username that probably puts a smile on everyone's face.

Thank you so much for clarifying. This makes complete sense. What I learned is that "some" should be interpreted as "at least one", and that certainly cannot have "significant impact". You are right, the more we practice, more critically we'll be able to evaluate and know the test makers' tricks.

Thank you again for the prompt reply and resolving the confusion :)

Nothing wrong with spreading a little cheer. Regarding the question, your takeaways are spot on, and I am glad these answer choices make a little more sense to you now. For another discussion on some, you may want to have a look at my most popular post, here, on a question from the OG 2021.

(I would have responded sooner, but this was my busiest day of work in a long time.)

- Andrew
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Re: For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da [#permalink] For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da   05 Apr 2021, 06:32
hi AndrewN,
I agree that the problem of exhaust from idling buses is not considered.
for me, more tourists choose tour bus than other means of transportation, say subways, that means tourists buses occupy more percentage than subway, so if parking targets to tour buses, then it seems more likely to reduced damage. although D is slightly strengthen, not strong as C, but I think D is just little strengthen.

please point out my fault.

thanks in advance
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Re: For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da [#permalink] For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da   05 Apr 2021, 12:29
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zoezhuyan wrote:
hi AndrewN,
I agree that the problem of exhaust from idling buses is not considered.
for me, more tourists choose tour bus than other means of transportation, say subways, that means tourists buses occupy more percentage than subway, so if parking targets to tour buses, then it seems more likely to reduced damage. although D is slightly strengthen, not strong as C, but I think D is just little strengthen.

please point out my fault.

thanks in advance

Hello, zoezhuyan. The main issue I have with (D) is that we are not concerned with how people, tourists or not, arrive in Palitito, only with what the buses are doing within the city, whether driving or idling. Yes, the first line of the passage does indeed say that the buildings in Palitito have been damaged by exhaust from the many tour buses that come to the city. However, the damaging exhaust described thereafter is understood to be emitted once those buses are within the city: idling produces as much exhaust as driving. I would call (D) a good trap answer—it does touch on the presence of tour buses in the city—but this comparison to other means of transportation has nothing to do with the argument, which could hold with or without such a comparison being made. Take, for instance, a split of 35/33/32 for the percent of tourists who visit the city by tour bus, automobile, and train, respectively; we could even make it, say, 23/22/20/18/17 and add planes and ferries to the mix, such that more people could be coming to the city on the whole by other means of transportation, and such a consideration still would not affect the argument.

If you look at choice (C) again, you might notice a clever bit of information that fits the linear logic of the passage perfectly: buses spend so much of the time they are in Palitito driving around, leaving us to deduce that these buses, the ones under scrutiny, must either be idling or be parked the rest of the time. The plan to reduce their exhaust by providing additional parking for a third of the tour bus fleet may not be perfect, but choice (C) directly touches on the argument that damage to Palitito's buildings from the buses' exhaust will diminish significantly. The details make all the difference.

I hope that helps add further clarity to this tough question. Thank you for thinking to ask.

- Andrew
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Re: For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da [#permalink] For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da   17 Jan 2024, 00:36
While I understand how option C is the correct answer, I am unable to eliminate option E.

Some of the buses keep driving around when they can't find parking (driving around creates as much exhaust fumes as idling). So if some of these 'some buses that keep driving around" can find parking in the new system, the amount of exhaust fumes will be reduced.
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Re: For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da [#permalink] For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da   17 Jan 2024, 06:52
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elizebethsunny wrote:
While I understand how option C is the correct answer, I am unable to eliminate option E.

Some of the buses keep driving around when they can't find parking (driving around creates as much exhaust fumes as idling). So if some of these 'some buses that keep driving around" can find parking in the new system, the amount of exhaust fumes will be reduced.


The passage explicitly tells us that idling and driving produce the same amount of exhaust, so whether buses idle at the curb or drive around the city while their tourists are on a tour is really not material.

We want to strengthen the argument that the new parking will SIGNIFICANTLY [quantifiers matter a lot in CR! Keep an eye out for them!] reduce the damage done by bus exhaust.

To strengthen this argument, the first thing I would look for is something that tells me buses can and will use the parking spots.

E just gives us another 'set' of buses that, if they were to use the parking spots, would help us reduce damage done to buildings, but it doesn't strengthen the idea that these buses CAN or WILL use the parking spots!

And none of the answers really provide such a justification! So, drat.

But another, more subtle thing: if buses don't spend that much time *waiting for their tourists* (either idling OR driving around)--if buses spend most of their time shuffling tourists from spot to spot--then these new parking spots won't help enough to *significantly* reduce the damage done to buildings.

Consider this math:

Exhaust from buses driving tourists around + Exhaust from buses waiting for their tourists = total exhaust

This argument is predicated on the idea that we can lower 'exhaust from buses waiting' enough that we will significantly reduce total exhaust. But if that 'exhaust from buses waiting' just isn't very large, this plan won't work!
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Re: For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da [#permalink] For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da   17 Jan 2024, 08:12
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elizebethsunny wrote:
While I understand how option C is the correct answer, I am unable to eliminate option E.

Some of the buses keep driving around when they can't find parking (driving around creates as much exhaust fumes as idling). So if some of these 'some buses that keep driving around" can find parking in the new system, the amount of exhaust fumes will be reduced.

(E) doesn't strengthen the argument because it doesn't add meaningfully to what we know.

We already know that most buses are not able to park. The fact that some of those that can't park drive around doesn't make the situation materially different since, as the passage says, "idling produces as much exhaust as driving."

So, regardless of whether waiting buses are idling or driving around, providing parking for a third of them will have the same effect. Thus, the fact that some are driving around doesn't change the expected outcome of the plan.
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Re: For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da [#permalink] For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da   06 Feb 2024, 11:56
MamtaKrishnia wrote:
For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been damaged by exhaust from the many tour buses that come to the city. There has been little parking space, so most buses have idled at the curb during each stop on their tour, and idling produces as much exhaust as driving. The city has now provided parking that accommodates a third of the tour buses, so damage to Palitito's buildings from the buses' exhaust will diminish significantly.

Which of the following, if true, most strongly supports the argument?


(A) The exhaust from Palitito's few automobiles is not a significant threat to Palitito's buildings.

(B) Palitito's Renaissance buildings are not threatened by pollution other than engine exhaust.

(C) Tour buses typically spend less than one-quarter of the time they are in Palitito transporting passengers from one site to another.

(D) More tourists come to Palitito by tour bus than by any other single means of transportation.

(E) Some of the tour buses that are unable to find parking drive around Palitito while their passengers are visiting a site.

­MartyMurray GMATNinja KarishmaB and any other experts

For option (C), how can we deduce that if 1/4 of the time is taken in transporting passengers from one site to another, the remaining 3/4 of the time can only be taken in either parking or idling?
Some other scenarios that can happen:
1. Time spent driving around without any passengers
2. Time spent driving to another place to park the bus before he/she completes his duty

The reason why I eliminated this option is that it seemed to take an assumption that the remaining time can only be spent in either parking or idling. ­
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Re: For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da [#permalink] For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da   06 Feb 2024, 12:15
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SlowTortoise wrote:
For option (C), how can we deduce that if 1/4 of the time is taken in transporting passengers from one site to another, the remaining 3/4 of the time can only be taken in either parking or idling?
Some other scenarios that can happen:
1. Time spent driving around without any passengers
2. Time spent driving to another place to park the bus before he/she completes his duty

The reason why I eliminated this option is that it seemed to take an assumption that the remaining time can only be spent in either parking or idling. ­

Regarding, the possibility of 1. Time spent driving around without any passengers, that possibility doesn't change the scenario because, even if they do drive around without passengers, providing more parking will still help to reduce the amount of exhaust they produce while in Palitito.

Regarding 2. Time spent driving to another place to park the bus before he/she completes his duty, the passage is about "tour buses that COME TO THE CITY."

So, presumably, the point is that the buses come to the city with passengers, who tour the city, and then leave with those passengers and drop them off elsewhere at the end of the tour.

Accordingly, 2.Time spent driving to another place to park the bus before he/she completes his duty is out because the drivers would not drive to another place to park the bus while in Palitito. They would do so after leaving Palitito when their tours are complete.­
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Re: For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da [#permalink] For years the beautiful Renaissance buildings in Palitito have been da   13 Jun 2024, 01:00
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