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Quote:

*suntprovident writes:*
@bb curious to know if there is any survey or study to check whether the scores post implementation of the new algo mirror the actual test. A lot of us are scoring lower than were previously with the question types also being vague on some of the tests e.g. repetitive types of questions in quants which were answered incorrectly in the same test, too many boldfaces/ must be true etc.

Thanks in advance for your help :)
Hi. Yes it is a good idea - the survey results will come from actual test results. So it will be a survey of users who have attempted the real GMAT to calibrate the scores and see how they did.

The algorithm is being a bit conservative right now and it gives you the lower end of your range. Meaning that there’s always a certain uncertainty on the test and GMAC calls it a standard error. Think about it as a certainty interval where the algorithm says here’s your score and I am about 90% certain in it but if you want the greatest certainty then there is a 99% certainty that you are plus minus 1 point. And the algorithm right now is taking the more conservative approach and it gives you the -1 point so to speak. In certain situations it’s even more precise than one point and in other situations where a person tiles are highly packed together or closely packed together then there may even be a plus -2 points it all depends on standard error parameter and the percentile distribution. So right now the algorithm is on the conservative side. However the impact is usually just one point.


PS. , it’s usually hard to explain the score without seeing it so I’m always trying to pull the logs behind the test to see what the test did and then try to explain it that way.

I hope Rishm does not mind if I use a bit of his test results since he disclosed his scores to explain the scoring. 😇

Give me a bit more time to put the screenshots together and charts. It’s a manual process 😇
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Quote:

Hi. Yes it is a good idea - the survey results will come from actual test results. So it will be a survey of users who have attempted the real GMAT to calibrate the scores and see how they did.

The algorithm is being a bit conservative right now and it gives you the lower end of your range. Meaning that there’s always a certain uncertainty on the test and GMAC calls it a standard error. Think about it as a certainty interval where the algorithm says here’s your score and I am about 90% certain in it but if you want the greatest certainty then there is a 99% certainty that you are plus minus 1 point. And the algorithm right now is taking the more conservative approach and it gives you the -1 point so to speak. In certain situations it’s even more precise than one point and in other situations where a person tiles are highly packed together or closely packed together then there may even be a plus -2 points it all depends on standard error parameter and the percentile distribution. So right now the algorithm is on the conservative side. However the impact is usually just one point.


PS. , it’s usually hard to explain the score without seeing it so I’m always trying to pull the logs behind the test to see what the test did and then try to explain it that way.

I hope Rishm does not mind if I use a bit of his test results since he disclosed his scores to explain the scoring. 😇
@bb and gmat club team appreciate your dedication and efforts 🤩
But BB due to some skewness in question type like we are getting 4 6 boldface questions as mentioned earlier because of experimental questions addition or something it may happen write these scores are not that accurate ?

Quote:

Hey! One reason we identified is that the addition of experimental questions without type checks caused a bit of skewness across certain topic types. The team is already working on balancing the distribution.

Thanks for flagging it though 🙂
This issue still persists right ? So it may hamper the score accuracy ? Or is it fixed now ?
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niteshmotwani
@bb and gmat club team appreciate your dedication and efforts 🤩
But BB due to some skewness in question type like we are getting 4 6 boldface questions as mentioned earlier because of experimental questions addition or something it may happen write these scores are not that accurate ?
@bb @hr just wanted to take a moment and thank you. We all appreciate the work that the team has put in to constantly support us throughout
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Rishm
I think lots had faced this

Hence even I tried out

@bb you can check previous chats to see

Hi Rishm,

I have analyzed your last DI test and I saw your earlier DI test from march - these were very different tests.
On the one in March you have answered almost everything correctly besides 2 questions.

On this test things have gone in a very different direction and I have no clue why. Maybe not as serious or focused?

Basically the first half of the test was a struggle.
You have missed mostly easy/medium questions and they were below average most of the time)
Here is a chart for DI. By the time the system gave some hard questions (#13, 14, 15, and 16).
There were 4 experimental items on this test so that's why only 16 items. I did see that one of the mistakes that you made was on a question that should have been marked as experimental (it was a hard one) but it was served with medium difficulty. So you got sabotaged there - this likely did cost a few points. Sorry about that! I have gone through all questions in the database and found a few other tough DS that were not labelled properly as experimental (it is a manually set flag). This is fixed now.

By the way, the early mistake in #2 was not a huge setback, you recovered within 1 question basically but #6 and 7 again made the test doubt your abilities, so down it went again and then started recovering and you did awesome at the end! However, the test had to decide how to grade you even though it is almost like 2 different people took the test. Did you feel that way?

P.S. Sorry it took so long - I kept checking questions, question bank, etc to see why this result. The only discrepancy I found was a human error with the question labeling. So yes, you are correct in terms of the score being harsh in this case but the next one should not be. However the 2 other questions you missed were legitimately medium/easy difficulty.




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Oh thanks 👍

Quote:

*bb writes:*
> I think lots had faced this
> Hence even I tried out
> @bb you can check previous chats to see

Hi https://gmatclub.com:443/forum/memberli ... e&un=Rishm,

I have analyzed your last DI test and I saw your earlier DI test from march - these were very different tests.
On the one in March you have answered almost everything correctly besides 2 questions.

On this test things have gone in a very different direction and I have no clue why. Maybe not as serious or focused?

Basically the first half of the test was a struggle.
You have missed mostly easy/medium questions and they were below average most of the time)
Here is a chart for DI. By the time the system gave some hard questions (#13, 14, 15, and 16).
There were 4 experimental items on this test so that's why only 16 items. I did see that one of the mistakes that you made was on a question that should have been marked as experimental (it was a hard one) but it was served with medium difficulty. So you got sabotaged there - this likely did cost a few points. Sorry about that! I have gone through all questions in the database and found a few other tough DS that were not labelled properly as experimental (it is a manually set flag). This is fixed now.

By the way, the early mistake in #2 was not a huge setback, you recovered within 1 question basically but #6 and 7 again made the test doubt your abilities, so down it went again and then started recovering and you did awesome at the end! However, the test had to decide how to grade you even though it is almost like 2 different people took the test. Did you feel that way?

P.S. Sorry it took so long - I kept checking questions, question bank, etc to see why this result. The only discrepancy I found was a human error with the question labeling. So yes, you are correct in terms of the score being harsh in this case but the next one should not be. However the 2 other questions you missed were legitimately medium/easy difficulty.
Too much work that's why 🙃
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Quote:

Oh thanks 👍
So yes, your score should be higher and I’ll go through your quant and verbal as well but probably later tonight only or tomorrow. I think I need to create some templates or something like that so I can quickly do analysis because every time it’s from scratch 🥴
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Yeah

🤪💥
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PS. I think this shows that you definitely have capacity and the ability to score really well but for some reason the two parts of the test were quite different. So this proves the mental state theory. Even a capable test taker will be held back by little stupid things. Your March 17 test was amazingly different.
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Quote:

PS. I think this shows that you definitely have capacity and the ability to score really well but for some reason the two parts of the test were quite different. So this proves the mental state theory. Even a capable test taker will be held back by little stupid things. Your March 17 test was amazingly different.
Thanks
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@bb
DI Mocks data
1. https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/r ... 27685.html -- new, 74, 13 correct
2. ⁠https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/results-2322982.html -- old, 79, 10 correct
3. ⁠https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/results-2322641.html -- old, 82, 12 correct
4. ⁠https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/results-2322047.html -- old, 85, 16 correct

2 questions --
1. the new algo mimics the scoring logic more closely or also the question placement logic?
2. ⁠the algo is throwing similar questions all at once -- can this happen in the real test too? (All DS questions bundled at the beginning, no MSR till the 16th question, even in Verbal 4-5 BF at back to back)
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Quote:

@199011738845277
DI Mocks data
1. https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/r ... 27685.html -- new, 74, 13 correct
2. ⁠https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/results-2322982.html -- old, 79, 10 correct
3. ⁠https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/results-2322641.html -- old, 82, 12 correct
4. ⁠https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/results-2322047.html -- old, 85, 16 correct

2 questions --
1. the new algo mimics the scoring logic more closely or also the question placement logic?
2. ⁠the algo is throwing similar questions all at once -- can this happen in the real test too? (All DS questions bundled at the beginning, no MSR till the 16th question, even in Verbal 4-5 BF back to back)
the intent of asking these questions is - while these tests are good for practicing but how closer are the scores to the real thing?
I was thinking of booking the test this week, but with this mock result, the confidence level came down a little.
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siddharth_
@bb
DI Mocks data
1. https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/r ... 27685.html -- new, 74, 13 correct
2. ⁠https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/results-2322982.html -- old, 79, 10 correct
3. ⁠https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/results-2322641.html -- old, 82, 12 correct
4. ⁠https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/results-2322047.html -- old, 85, 16 correct

2 questions --
1. the new algo mimics the scoring logic more closely or also the question placement logic?
2. ⁠the algo is throwing similar questions all at once -- can this happen in the real test too? (All DS questions bundled at the beginning, no MSR till the 16th question, even in Verbal 4-5 BF at back to back)
Hi. In general the new algorithm is supposed to be more accurate - that’s the big picture. Today thanks to another user in this group, Rishm, I learned that a small number of new HARD questions were not marked as experimental so you got 1 of them served as well while being considered a medium level (this is addressed), so this had probably 1-2 points impact on your test.

In general, looking at your test, the old algorithm, you had a lot more hard questions (5) vs. this one had only 1. In the latest test you got 2 easy questions and you got one of them incorrect. You were doing well until you ran out of time. But I think the approach of guessing the last 5-6 questions is not the best approach. Here is a chart of your score:

siddharth_
the intent of asking these questions is - while these tests are good for practicing but how closer are the scores to the real thing?
I was thinking of booking the test this week, but with this mock result, the confidence level came down a little.
I would Highly suggest taking a GMAT Prep to establish the test accuracy - GMAT Prep is super helpful for doing that and being a second data point to confirm/reject. You should have gotten a higher score but one question torpedoed you. We should have some updates coming this next week (including spreading out the questions by type - right now the system picks the best questions and there are a lot more DI questions in the database they tend to be the closest ones to pick at first, and then it starts picking the other questions that match the parameters). It is working correctly technically speaking but that results in some cases into a stacked list of questions where it serves each question by type - something we learned only earlier this week as this also did not come up in testing... so I would suggest waiting another week to book your test. Ideally take a GMAT Prep and if you don’t have a spare GMAT Prep test, wait until Thursday or Friday to take another test as by then the order of questions will be more natural (though it will be a bit forced but that’s the more appropriate approach. Just in case, I have extended your subscription by a week just in case. But meanwhile, use this result to motivate yourself to study harder and be a bit more paranoid - that will only help!
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siddharth_, I would also suggest reviewing your mistakes of the easy/medium questions. I see you have been able to handle pretty hard loads in the past in this test for example: https://gmatclub.com/gmat-focus-tests/r ... 22047.html so not sure why you ran out of steam in this test - was that just a timing issue?
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Quote:

*bb writes:*
> the intent of asking these questions is - while these tests are good for practicing but how closer are the scores to the real thing?
> I was thinking of booking the test this week, but with this mock result, the confidence level came down a little.
I would Highly suggest taking a GMAT Prep to establish the test accuracy - GMAT Prep is super helpful for doing that and being a second data point to confirm/reject. You should have gotten a higher score but one question torpedoed you. We should have some updates coming this next week (including spreading out the questions by type - right now the system picks the best questions and there are a lot more DI questions in the database they tend to be the closest ones to pick at first, and then it starts picking the other questions that match the parameters). It is working correctly technically speaking but that results in some cases into a stacked list of questions where it serves each question by type - something we learned only earlier this week as this also did not come up in testing... so I would suggest waiting another week to book your test. Ideally take a GMAT Prep and if you don’t have a spare GMAT Prep test, wait until Thursday or Friday to take another test as by then the order of questions will be more natural (though it will be a bit forced but that’s the more appropriate approach. Just in case, I have extended your subscription by a week just in case. But meanwhile, use this result to motivate yourself to study harder and be a bit more paranoid - that will only help!
thanks for the detailed response @bb 🙏🏻

i feel like i was not served the hard ones in this test - if you see the test served all the mid level questions up until the 15th question and then I started running out of time.
while in the earlier test I was served a lot of hard questions from the beginning which then I got correct.

Quote:

*bb sends image:*

Also, why is the algo assessing the ability drop around 4th and 5th questions? Has this got to do with timing? Then why is it assessing a rise 7th question onward even though I answered it incorrectly?
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siddharth_
i feel like i was not served the hard ones in this test - if you see the test served all the mid level questions up until the 15th question and then I started running out of time.
while in the earlier test I was served a lot of hard questions from the beginning which then I got correct.
That’s right - system frontloaded a number of experimental questions so when it came to increase the difficulty you got 7 and 8 wrong, so it went down quite a bit and then started recovering again and by the time you were getting to the hard questions you ran out of time. You should have the time however since most questions of the average/medium ability except M36-21
which was coded incorrectly.

siddharth_

Also, why is the algo assessing the ability drop around 4th and 5th questions? Has this got to do with timing? Then why is it assessing a rise 7th question onward even though I answered it incorrectly?
Hi. it is not due to timing. The list only contains 16 questions and excludes 4 experimental that were served on this exam to you (this number varies but 4 is the max possible and most time it will be 2). So the numbers you are looking at are shifted, so remove 4 questions from the first 6. The only reason for increase/decrease is accuracy of the answer.

Basically your number 3 and 4 were incorrect but then you recovered and if you maintained that level and did not run out of time you would have had a 70th percentile or smth like that.
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Quote:

*bb writes:*
> https://s3.eu-central-1.amazonaws.com/u ... 5805a0281f
> Also, why is the algo assessing the ability drop around 4th and 5th questions? Has this got to do with timing? Then why is it assessing a rise 7th question onward even though I answered it incorrectly?
Hi. it is not due to timing. The list only contains 16 questions and excludes 4 experimental that were served on this exam to you (this number varies but 4 is the max possible and most time it will be 2). So the numbers you are looking at are shifted, so remove 4 questions from the first 6. The only reason for increase/decrease is accuracy of the answer.
okay, got it. Thanks again @bb !
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