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04 Apr 2011, 20:53
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I’m having a dilemma, and though I know these types of comparisons are discussed a lot, I have very specific concerns that I’d really appreciate input on.
I either have an admit, or have a good shot one, with Rotman (UofToronto), Schulich (York), and Sauder (UBC) in Toronto and Vancouver. I got a scholarship to Rotman so the cost difference is negligible.
In terms of the individual school I think Rotman and Schulich are the best, and of those two, I generally prefer Rotman as I think it’s a slightly stronger program – yet I have a few issues which I think may mean I should really choose one of the others, and am wondering if anyone can provide insight and advice – either on the schools themselves, or just general career paths.
I’m interested in Strategy mainly, but also think I’d be interested in general management, operations, business development, csr, trade. At the same time, I am really focused on work-life balance, I’m not lazy, but I’m not shooting for big money and big hours, I’d rather have a balanced income with a balanced and flexible schedule. This sort of rules out big name consulting for me… as far as their reputation goes. I’m also not interested in finance (rotmans strength), or marketing (schulichs strength).
Reputation of School
As I mentioned, I think Rotman is the best school of the group, with Schulich a close second, and Sauder farther down. I think Rotman’s research, and some of their original programs (integrative thinking/business design – still not sold on these) are an advantage, and it seems like a rigorous and engaging program with strong recognition. Nevertheless, I’ve heard that it’s very focused on finance and quantitative work, and has an unsociable and cut-throat attitude.
Schulich ranks almost as good as Rotman very consistently, but for some reason has a pretty bad rep it sounds like. I can’t tell if it’s overrated on the rankings because of its diversity or for some other reason, or if it has an unfairly bad reputation because of YorkU as a whole, and maybe their grads don’t take/get the highest paying positions. Is it reasonable to assume you will truly get a worse education at Schulich than Rotman?
Rotman wins
Fit & Placement of Grads
As for fit, I like many aspects of Rotman, but their placement doesn’t seem to fit me at all. 50% of all their grads end up in Finance, with another 20% in consulting. This leaves a total of less than 30% doing anything I would likely be interested in doing. I think this implies there’s less industry recruiting on campus, and also that their will be way worse networking opportunities, internships, learning about different kinds of industries and functions, etc.
On the other hand, Schulich’s placement is actually pretty diverse. They do alright in Finance, okay in consulting, and have a lot of grads in industry and different sectors. This seems like a program that’s a lot more conducive to just learning about management and exploring your options. Also, one where you can meeting people, and build networks in a variety of areas. In particular I like the option of multiple majors and their focus on public and non-profit management. Yet despite this, there aren’t too many grads working in these areas. Are there no jobs, or are they just usually passed over because of lower salary? Is there even recruiting for non-finance/consulting positions, or is that usually something you have to search out?
Schulich wins (maybe)
Importance of Location
Along with this, I’d very much like to consider moving to Vancouver – it’s not for sure, but something I’d like to have the option to do (at least 50-50 change I’ll end up going to Van). I know Sauder may be as good as the other schools for Vancouver jobs, but I would imagine that a degree from one of the top 2/3 schools in the country should be seen as just as strong as the local school (do Canadians even care?). How important is location? Certainly I’ll loose on some connections for the sake of a slightly better school, but is it for-sure a mistake to go to a Toronto school if I’m going to move west? For Rotman’s placement, I can’t believe it, but only 2% of grads work in Canada outside of Toronto! That makes me think I may be screwed leaving the ‘typical’ markets for the school. Including Vancouver, I’d like to have the opportunity to work internationally if possible, which makes me lean towards Schulich for the network. Again Rotman grads seem to be Toronto, New York, Chicago for finance/consulting, or bust….
Sauder wins
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For anyone who has particular experience with any of these schools, could you provide any feedback?
Rotman
- If you’re not taking a finance specializations, did you find the rest of the course-work finance and quantitatively heavy (I have an econ degree so think I could handle it, but its still not my strong suit, and not my interest)
- Is there much in the way of recruiting, or networking opportunities outside of finance and consulting?
- What is the social atmosphere of the school? Is it cut-throat/arrogant in a manner people say?
- How did you find the career services and school administration?
Schulich
- How did you find the quality of the education, faculty and classmates? Any concerns about quality and students?
- How is the school socially? Since it’s such a bad location I’d imagine most people would commute, and that could take away from the experience.
- How did you find the career services and school administration?
- Does anyone have information on the regional allocation of Schulich grads (domestically and intn’l), I can’t find anything?
Sauder
- In the job market do you see many grads from out east?
I either have an admit, or have a good shot one, with Rotman (UofToronto), Schulich (York), and Sauder (UBC) in Toronto and Vancouver. I got a scholarship to Rotman so the cost difference is negligible.
In terms of the individual school I think Rotman and Schulich are the best, and of those two, I generally prefer Rotman as I think it’s a slightly stronger program – yet I have a few issues which I think may mean I should really choose one of the others, and am wondering if anyone can provide insight and advice – either on the schools themselves, or just general career paths.
I’m interested in Strategy mainly, but also think I’d be interested in general management, operations, business development, csr, trade. At the same time, I am really focused on work-life balance, I’m not lazy, but I’m not shooting for big money and big hours, I’d rather have a balanced income with a balanced and flexible schedule. This sort of rules out big name consulting for me… as far as their reputation goes. I’m also not interested in finance (rotmans strength), or marketing (schulichs strength).
Reputation of School
As I mentioned, I think Rotman is the best school of the group, with Schulich a close second, and Sauder farther down. I think Rotman’s research, and some of their original programs (integrative thinking/business design – still not sold on these) are an advantage, and it seems like a rigorous and engaging program with strong recognition. Nevertheless, I’ve heard that it’s very focused on finance and quantitative work, and has an unsociable and cut-throat attitude.
Schulich ranks almost as good as Rotman very consistently, but for some reason has a pretty bad rep it sounds like. I can’t tell if it’s overrated on the rankings because of its diversity or for some other reason, or if it has an unfairly bad reputation because of YorkU as a whole, and maybe their grads don’t take/get the highest paying positions. Is it reasonable to assume you will truly get a worse education at Schulich than Rotman?
Rotman wins
Fit & Placement of Grads
As for fit, I like many aspects of Rotman, but their placement doesn’t seem to fit me at all. 50% of all their grads end up in Finance, with another 20% in consulting. This leaves a total of less than 30% doing anything I would likely be interested in doing. I think this implies there’s less industry recruiting on campus, and also that their will be way worse networking opportunities, internships, learning about different kinds of industries and functions, etc.
On the other hand, Schulich’s placement is actually pretty diverse. They do alright in Finance, okay in consulting, and have a lot of grads in industry and different sectors. This seems like a program that’s a lot more conducive to just learning about management and exploring your options. Also, one where you can meeting people, and build networks in a variety of areas. In particular I like the option of multiple majors and their focus on public and non-profit management. Yet despite this, there aren’t too many grads working in these areas. Are there no jobs, or are they just usually passed over because of lower salary? Is there even recruiting for non-finance/consulting positions, or is that usually something you have to search out?
Schulich wins (maybe)
Importance of Location
Along with this, I’d very much like to consider moving to Vancouver – it’s not for sure, but something I’d like to have the option to do (at least 50-50 change I’ll end up going to Van). I know Sauder may be as good as the other schools for Vancouver jobs, but I would imagine that a degree from one of the top 2/3 schools in the country should be seen as just as strong as the local school (do Canadians even care?). How important is location? Certainly I’ll loose on some connections for the sake of a slightly better school, but is it for-sure a mistake to go to a Toronto school if I’m going to move west? For Rotman’s placement, I can’t believe it, but only 2% of grads work in Canada outside of Toronto! That makes me think I may be screwed leaving the ‘typical’ markets for the school. Including Vancouver, I’d like to have the opportunity to work internationally if possible, which makes me lean towards Schulich for the network. Again Rotman grads seem to be Toronto, New York, Chicago for finance/consulting, or bust….
Sauder wins
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For anyone who has particular experience with any of these schools, could you provide any feedback?
Rotman
- If you’re not taking a finance specializations, did you find the rest of the course-work finance and quantitatively heavy (I have an econ degree so think I could handle it, but its still not my strong suit, and not my interest)
- Is there much in the way of recruiting, or networking opportunities outside of finance and consulting?
- What is the social atmosphere of the school? Is it cut-throat/arrogant in a manner people say?
- How did you find the career services and school administration?
Schulich
- How did you find the quality of the education, faculty and classmates? Any concerns about quality and students?
- How is the school socially? Since it’s such a bad location I’d imagine most people would commute, and that could take away from the experience.
- How did you find the career services and school administration?
- Does anyone have information on the regional allocation of Schulich grads (domestically and intn’l), I can’t find anything?
Sauder
- In the job market do you see many grads from out east?
09 Apr 2011, 10:44
Kudos
Bookmarks
As a student I can tell you the main difference between Schulich and Rotman are the student bodies and the attitude of the school. Placement, career services, core coursework, and reputation are negligible. Both workloads are much more than UBC, so if work-life balance is a main concern - go there.
Rotman has terrible work-life balance because it is very competitive and not very collegial. Schulich is extremely collegial, but that often negates your ability to have any kind of life outside of the Schulich community. Schulich's commute is a *complain*, but they have a campus downtown if that is THAT important to you (you could get away with taking mostly classes downtown in the second year if you don't care about the courses you take). If you're looking for a CSR job, Schulich is the school for you.
One thing to consider if location of the school is important to you is to know that UBC is on the edge of town. Granted, it's on the edge with the ocean, there is no rapid transit that goes out there. There's a rocket bus that takes about 40 minutes, but Schulich's rocket is about 10 from the subway.
As far as comparing the reputation of the school with recruitment in Canada, just think of where you'd like to end up afterwards. Some big firms only come to the three Toronto schools to recruit, but that doesn't mean you can't still apply for a job with P&G or PwC. The school reputation doesn't mean as much in Canada as it does in the USA. I know folks who came out of Wilfrid Laurier & UVic who have better jobs than anyone from Rotman or Schulich. Plus, UBC is the most well-reputated school west of Toronto in Canada for MBAs and has excellent professional programs all around (Engineering, Law, and Medicine). Lots of great companies that recruit there, like Telus and Ubisoft, don't recruit from the Toronto schools.
Just go where you think you'll enjoy life most. In Toronto, I'm thinking you'd like Schulich better because at least the lifestyle is a little more relaxed (except for that damn commute and the amount of group work you do). However, if you are not concerned about the Toronto Vs. Vancouver, I'd almost say you should go to UBC over all.
Rotman has terrible work-life balance because it is very competitive and not very collegial. Schulich is extremely collegial, but that often negates your ability to have any kind of life outside of the Schulich community. Schulich's commute is a *complain*, but they have a campus downtown if that is THAT important to you (you could get away with taking mostly classes downtown in the second year if you don't care about the courses you take). If you're looking for a CSR job, Schulich is the school for you.
One thing to consider if location of the school is important to you is to know that UBC is on the edge of town. Granted, it's on the edge with the ocean, there is no rapid transit that goes out there. There's a rocket bus that takes about 40 minutes, but Schulich's rocket is about 10 from the subway.
As far as comparing the reputation of the school with recruitment in Canada, just think of where you'd like to end up afterwards. Some big firms only come to the three Toronto schools to recruit, but that doesn't mean you can't still apply for a job with P&G or PwC. The school reputation doesn't mean as much in Canada as it does in the USA. I know folks who came out of Wilfrid Laurier & UVic who have better jobs than anyone from Rotman or Schulich. Plus, UBC is the most well-reputated school west of Toronto in Canada for MBAs and has excellent professional programs all around (Engineering, Law, and Medicine). Lots of great companies that recruit there, like Telus and Ubisoft, don't recruit from the Toronto schools.
Just go where you think you'll enjoy life most. In Toronto, I'm thinking you'd like Schulich better because at least the lifestyle is a little more relaxed (except for that damn commute and the amount of group work you do). However, if you are not concerned about the Toronto Vs. Vancouver, I'd almost say you should go to UBC over all.
09 Apr 2011, 15:39
Kudos
Bookmarks
Thanks again for your insight! Can I ask you what makes you say that the workloads and culture are so different between the programs? Have you had the opportunity to talk to people in these programs? I'm a little surprised there, I thought given that as they're all comparable programs the work would be pretty similar. I just imagine that Rotman is more competitive amongst those fighting for top spots for IB and Consulting work, but that might make the whole program more competitive...
- Though Schulich may be more social, did you find that commuting made it difficult to participate fully (can't enjoy pub-night fully :p)??
- In terms of the opportunity to work overseas (possibly Europe), do you think Schulich has an advantage? I know both schools likely aren't well known, but with Schulichs 'international focus' I would imagine there's more people moving abroad, and might help with contacts, even though the IMBA class is segregated. Then again, UofT as a university is pretty widely respected. I can't seem to find alumni stats on Schulich, though I can for Rotman (one critique about Schulich is they seem to offer less info about their program).
I think I am leaning away from Sauder. Having never spent much time at all in Toronto I can't say how much I'll enjoy it, I would just prefer the access to outdoorsy activities that I think TO lacks. I am just always the type concerned with keeping my options open, but will still consider Sauder (man only 2 weeks to decide
)
I think now I am leaning slightly more towards York. The biggest things I can think about it are certain elements of the cirriculum don't seem as 'innovative' (business design and integrative thinking do sound like they could be worthwhile topics to learn about...but Im still skeptical about IT), and the location of campus...
- Though Schulich may be more social, did you find that commuting made it difficult to participate fully (can't enjoy pub-night fully :p)??
- In terms of the opportunity to work overseas (possibly Europe), do you think Schulich has an advantage? I know both schools likely aren't well known, but with Schulichs 'international focus' I would imagine there's more people moving abroad, and might help with contacts, even though the IMBA class is segregated. Then again, UofT as a university is pretty widely respected. I can't seem to find alumni stats on Schulich, though I can for Rotman (one critique about Schulich is they seem to offer less info about their program).
I think I am leaning away from Sauder. Having never spent much time at all in Toronto I can't say how much I'll enjoy it, I would just prefer the access to outdoorsy activities that I think TO lacks. I am just always the type concerned with keeping my options open, but will still consider Sauder (man only 2 weeks to decide
)I think now I am leaning slightly more towards York. The biggest things I can think about it are certain elements of the cirriculum don't seem as 'innovative' (business design and integrative thinking do sound like they could be worthwhile topics to learn about...but Im still skeptical about IT), and the location of campus...
