Is age an issue?

Question

I am getting started on forming my "story" for the application and I am interested in your opinion on how my age could affect my chances to get into the M7 schools.

To outline my situation, I am 31 year old this year and will be 32 by the time the 2016 semester starts. I am a China-born New Zealand citizen who has been living in New Zealand for 14 years. I came to New Zealand from China when I was 17, finished my Bachelor degree in engineering (1st class honours - equivalent of a GPA of about 3.6 ) in a top New Zealand university and have a GMAT 750 (Q50/V40)

I have been working for about 7 years mainly as a project manager for infrastructure projects, including 4.5 years in the public sector in central government and 2 years in the private sector. When I worked in the public sector, I became the youngest project manager to manage a $100 million dollar project (one of the roads of national significance) from procurement stage to construction stage. I won the emerging project manager of the year award from PMI (New Zealand Chapter) in 2013. Then I decided to switch to the private sector and was promoted twice in the last 2 years, and delivered $10 million revenue as the project manager for a branch that has an annual turnover of 30 million. I am also involved in the business development space for major project tenders. During this time, I was shortlisted for the finalists for the emerging leader award by New Zealand Contractors Federation.

So why MBA so late? Coming to New Zealand took me extra time to learn English and transition into a different education system. So I started to work at an older age than the majority of kiwis do. Then I wanted to experience both the public sector and private sector before knowing what to do next. Also I could have applied 1 year ago but I have been waiting for my girlfriend to finish her undergraduate (this year) so she can come with me and do a graduate degree at the same time. After 14 years in NZ, I feel it is now or never to go to a bigger place to do something different. In my mind, this will be the stage 3 of my life (obviously stage 1 being the time in China and stage 2 being the time in NZ). And to be honest, being so far away from the US and UK for so long, I didn't even think I would have a chance to get into a top business school until someone I know in class got into Stanford and the commercial manager that I am working with got a MBA too.

Currently my target schools in US are Harvard, Wharton, Booth and Columbia with no particularly obvious reasons. Also I am planning to apply for LBS and Insead just because I feel a little more comfortable with the British and european settings because of my time in NZ and also because of slightly older recruit they have. My aspiration is to get into consulting after MBA, with some focus on infrastructure investment and government. However it is early stage and my thoughts on this change on the weekly basis.

Now my biggest worry is that I am too old for American business schools where the average age is between 26-28. I don't know how much the age thing really matters and how much more I will have to stand out in order to offset the disadvantage.

Sorry for the long winded question... This forum is awesome and I feel like I can get some honest and valuable answers here.

fxMBAconsulting · Answer

Long winded is good. At least we have a good idea of your story here. I like your story - it's very unique. I won't paraphrase everything you've done here since people can just read your post - but from a to z I like it. The international experience, GMAT, and quality of work experience/#promotions is excellent.

Yes you are at the upper end of the scale age-wise for a traditional 2-year US MBA BUT you don't have 9/10 years of experience like some candidates do. One reason that b-schools don't want candidates that are too old is because the employers who recruit at their schools don't want candidates who are too old. The age trends at schools are really employer, not admissions committee, driven. If you apply this year and start next year, you'll have 8 years of work experience. That is still on the upper edge of the work experience spectrum - this is the last year when you could realistically apply for a 2-year MBA in the US (I wish you had applied last year though).

Because you are going to be considered a NZ citizen - it's a huge advantage for you. Schools don't get a huge number of applicants from NZ. Harvard and Stanford are trending younger though - I had a really strong applicant last year (similar to you in many ways) insist on applying to HBS and Stanford...to no avail. She was just too old for them. What did your friend's profile look like - the one who got into Stanford? You said he was in your class - was he your same age?

You didn't mention what your plan was post-MBA. This is actual a big factor in not only choosing schools but in helping consultants evaluate your application.

I'd focus my time and money applying to Booth, MIT Sloan, LBS & INSEAD (for the reasons you mention). Why Wharton and Columbia? Columbia is going to want to know why you want to be in NYC....Wharton will love your GMAT but does Wharton have the recruiting opportunities you are looking for? Haas might be another school to look at as would MIT Sloan's LGO program.

I have an article on my site called 'How old is too old?' Some of the info there might be of interest to you.
https://fxmbaconsulting.com/too-old-full ... r-kellogg/

Feel free to contact me if you'd like to chat sometime. Best of luck! Leah

xzha117 · Answer

Hi Leah, thank you very much for your thorough and honest response. To answer you questions, in terms of my post MBA goal, I want to get into management consulting as I feel my previous experience and skill sets will suit consulting, particularly focusing on infrastructure, government, and strategy. Otherwise, I would be keen to go back to corporate sector and concentrate on business development.

As for my target schools, I haven't finished my research yet and currently I am just going off the highest ranking schools. I stroke out Stanford straightaway because I don't feel like the style of the school (entrepreneurial, high tech and too young for me) would suit me. Other than that, I am pretty much targeting what is on the top 5 list.I have read that each school has its strength, e.g. Wharton with finance, MIT with supply chain management etc. But I am not sure if I should follow a particular strength of the school or its overall brand value.

Also, I have been back and forth between 1 year MBA and 2 year MBA, now I am leaning towards 2 year MBA because I feel having the opportunity to do an internship and extra time to network will increase my chance to switch industry. But given my age, 2 year MBA will mean even one year later to get back to work. I am OK with the opportunity cost, but as you said, if the age becomes increasingly a negative for me, should I consider doing a 1 year MBA (Insead, even Oxibridge) or 15 month MBA (Columbia, LBS) rather than a full 2 year programme?

Finally, in terms of the choice of country, I have read that a MBA in a top US is still more valued than in other parts of the world and it is easier to find a job in another country with a US MBA than it is to find a job in the US with a non-US MBA. Considering these, I am targeting the US schools ahead of other choices. But like you said and I agreed, I may have a better chance if apply for LBS and Insead, but how good are they really comparing to the top US schools such as Wharton, Columbia.

Full of dilemmas and questions, hope I can find some direction in the next few months...

fxMBAconsulting · Answer

Lots of things to think about here. There is no definitive answer as to whether an MBA from the UK or the US is better IN ABSOLUTE.....and in fact that question is irrelevant...the question I'm always asking myself is: Is this school/program length/brand/program/etc. better FOR THIS INDIVIDUAL. Whether something is right for an individual depends on his goals.

You said you wanted to work in MC but you didn't mention whether you would stay in the US for a couple years, stay permanently, go home to China immediately....etc. I always have a lengthy conversation with clients about short and long term plans and alternative scenarios (life doesn't always work out as planned) - then we weigh the brand value of a school or program within that context. I'm assuming you want to work for a few years in the US - in that case a US MBA is really the only option because after completing your MBA you have a working visa in the US for 1 year I believe (and the employer can help you renew afterwards). It's going to be pretty hard (but not impossible) to land a job + employer willing to sponsor your US visa if you're coming from EU. Since you also feel that a US MBA has more cache internationally it would seem that a US MBA is the right choice.

The other option is doing LBS or INSEAD - then you might work in the EU/UK post-MBA instead of the US.

Can you get into a M7 school is the question.

You're too old for Stanford (I'm glad you also recognize that). Wasting time applying there is just going to suck your energy away from more promising applications. HBS, like Stanford, is trending towards younger applicants - you're technically too old for HBS as well but if you had to apply to either Stanford or HBS, I'd say apply to HBS.

You could do a shorter program - Kellogg has a 1 year MBA and I had an international student from McKinsey choose that over a 2-year at LBS this year because he thought it had a better brand value in the US and in his home country. With a one-year MBA I feel pretty confident that you could get back into the corporate world/development - without an internship it might be difficult to land an associate role at a top MC firm BUT I think that will depend on how aggressively they are looking for people with infrastructure backgrounds (you should reach out to some people who went from infrastructure to MC and ask for their opinion).

I have read that each school has its strength, e.g. Wharton with finance, MIT with supply chain management etc. But I am not sure if I should follow a particular strength of the school or its overall brand value.
In my class at MIT there were not many people specifically interested in supply chain - there is the LGO program for that. Likewise not everyone at Wharton does finance - there are also people who do MC, marketing, start-ups etc. I wouldn't be too drawn in by the stereotypes of each school - you'll limit yourself if you do. Each school has a mix of students - but it is true that some schools have better recruiting opportunities in certain areas. MC you'll find at all top 15 schools.

So what do we have now? 1 year Kellogg or 15 mo Columbia, 2-year Wharton (they place a lot of MCs), Chicago Booth, MIT? or INSEAD, Oxbridge, LBS.

I offer free school selection services (as well as ding reports) so feel free to reach out and we can set up a call. I say that because I think this is a complex story and I'm going to end up writing a book here on the forums before I'm really able to hash everything out.

leah@fxmbaconsulting.com
Best,
Leah

Is age an issue?

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