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Re: Is MBA really worth the $200K and 2 years? [#permalink]
BankerBro wrote:
Great article... Very much helps in clearing a lot of doubts of aspirants..
But it would have been better if you can share a few tips about how these people are repaying their $200,000 loans with their salaries in their home countries.
I can understand privacy concerns, but it can be shared in a generalised way as tips in bullet points without mentioning anyone's name. Or can also be shared as specific case studies.
Student Loans add to long term liabilities and remains a headache until repaid. A few tips can really help a lot of students in further clarification.

Posted from my mobile device



Hi, BankerBro. Thanks a lot for engaging and providing your feedback :D

Will definitely keep this in mind and try to dig deeper while working on my article!
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Anupamakashyap97 wrote:
Despite visa issues and sparse opportunities, are students defending their MBAs?


“As much as possible, avoid hiring MBAs. MBA programs don’t teach people how to create companies. MBA Graduates may be good at PowerPoint but they don’t know how things work!” (Elon Musk, Tesla)



Recently, Elon Musk, the entrepreneurial god, went on record to say that MBAs parachute their way in instead of working their way up, leading to complete unawareness of building companies.

Though this revelation adds to the already ongoing existential crisis of young professionals, “To MBA, or not to MBA”, the debate isn’t newfound.

And we know - MBAs aren’t easy! Even getting into an MBA program entails multiple GMAT mocks, attempts, and retakes, edits, and re-edits of essays, LORs, achievements, video essays…. the list goes on! Applicants truly put in their blood, sweat, and tears to finally secure an admit from one of their choice schools.

However, the gruesome journey seldom ends with getting an admit! One just gets promoted from a rat race to another and it all begins again with the start of the program: academics, post MBA career, networking, assignments, internships, projects, case competitions, exams! IT IS A LOT OF WORK…

Now, especially, with COVID taking over the world by a storm and changing the business landscape overnight, many have realized just how archaic business education is! The age-old case studies aren’t cutting it anymore! It’s all about adaptability, rigor, and learning on the job; in real-time!

And, with the rising takeover of online education, MBA graduates might be found battling it out with candidates who’ve been working & learning every day and not playing ice-breakers at mixers on ZOOM for two years!

In such times, is an MBA a squander of resources- Time, Money, and Opportunities? Or does an MBA offer much more than case studies and networking?

To find out, we spoke to MBA alums from schools across who are putting their degree to good use (or not) in their current roles.

Luis (name changed), UCLA Anderson Alum, is currently working at a freight company in operational excellence. Arya finished her MBA from NUS, Singapore, and is currently working with Loreal as a Brand Manager. Subhash pursued his MBA from Purdue University- Krannert School of Management and is now working as an engineering manager at Altimetrik.

Read on to know more about what they have to say!


1. Reasons

    Though a behemoth task to decide on pursuing an MBA, each applicant has strong reasons to back up their decision. We all aspire for a better future, better career, better pay! And getting an MBA from a top-notch school inches one closer to the dream!

    “I wanted to build my network with peers across the world and subsequently land a job in Microsoft or Google,” states Luis

    And sequentially, reasons tend to hover around our aspirations.
    Our interviewees too had similar reasons to pursue an MBA. They fall under three broad buckets:
    • Opportunities: Candidates seek out better job/life opportunities and believe that securing an MBA is one way to achieve that.
    • Network: Building a strong network can help not just in your prof life but also in your personal life. Many candidates have claimed that an MBA has given them a safe space to be vulnerable and grow. Often, you end up finding a place where you belong amongst those long hours of case competitions, exam prep, interview prep, etc
    • A shift in function/sector: Most candidates looking to shift from a technical role to a more strategic/business role prefer to do an MBA rather than starting again at the bottom. Thus, allowing students to gain the knowledge and skills required for their future careers.

    In addition to obtaining functional knowledge and upskilling myself, I wanted to gain a wholesome understanding of businesses in general and identify my niche”, says Arya.


2. Realizations

    We’ve established that it takes a lot of work to get into an MBA program. What warrants a thought is the expectations students go in with. An MBA is almost like one’s teenage relationship. A relationship, between the school and the student, in which you have your assumptions and then you realize the realities. The realities often tend to be harsh, in both scenarios.

    However, our interviewees had mixed opinions. While Arya found the MBA ticked all of her expectations, we saw that Luis and Subhash were disappointed initially. Digging deep, this discrepancy was found to have occurred because of one of two reasons:
    • Lack of clarity: If you aren’t aware of why you’re choosing to do an MBA and what you wish to gain at the end of the program, you will not be able to effectively make the best out of the opportunities. This may lead to feeling frustrated and left behind!
    • School selection: MBAs across help gain sectoral and functional knowledge. We all know that that’s not enough. You need to go deep and do a lot of self-learning as MBA provides super condensed knowledge in a very short time. So, if you are overwhelmed by the school and fail to make the best of the opportunities, MBA will just act as your stamp of quality, which might help you get a job, however, will not help you scale/grow! Hence, it’s crucial to understand your fit!

    Implications of having no clarity on expectations and school fit: We all know that getting opportunities as an international student is tedious and emotionally draining. The hustle has been normalized and glorified. But, it’s not always so bad. The experience itself might teach one a lot about handling high-pressure situations and dealing with ambiguity that is crucial for any leadership position! MBAs aren’t really just about case studies and networking. It also provides one with ample opportunities to explore and understand oneself! Hence, despite the discrepancy in expectations, candidates are on average satisfied with their MBA journey. [Source]

    “I expected big firms to recruit on-campus with multiple choices, however, the reality was nowhere near.” explains Luis, “ I had to go out there and hustle to even receive a callback. It is all the more stressful as an international student. But I’d have to say that wrestling it out for a callback, in hindsight, has proved to be a great learning experience. I gained a lot of time management & organizational skills, and a chance to dig deep & reflect on my journey to truly understand my core competencies and aspirations. This understanding equipped me to bag interviews with Amazon, Google, and Facebook!”


3. Repercussions

    MBAs have existed for a long time, a century-long! It’s not just because of its glam and fame. Our interviewees too agreed-- MBAs are helpful. Be it in getting that edge over other employees without an MBA or in communicating more structurally and effectively.

    So, what does an MBA truly help with other than the promised high-worth network and super intense knowledge about the biz world? Few answers based on our interviewees’ experience involves,
    • Upskilling: Sharpening and honing relevant life skills, not restricted to just communication, organization, and problem-solving, but also skills such as perspective thinking, building meaningful relationships, stress management, and psychological competency. This myriad of skills has proven to help students tackle their professional as well as personal challenges effectively.
    • Cross-functional understanding: An MBA doesn’t operate in silos of the subjects. Case-study competitions, in-house projects, and numerous on and off-campus discussions provide students with a zoomed-out lens of the working of businesses, aiding cross-functional thinking in current roles.
    • MBA ecosystem: If you’re an international student, especially, the MBA journey can prove to be enriching- one gets to experience different cultures and ethnicities, challenging their perceptions and aiding their growth.

    However, there is a caveat. it can be challenging to find opportunities, and once found, obtain the work visa (H-1B).

    “To some extent, MBA helped in my professional growth, but the problem is that my H1B didn’t get picked in the lottery in the US because of which I couldn’t land in better offers and thereby attain more growth. I had to relocate to India", says Subhash.

    The number of students who have had to relocate back to their country due to the non-availability of work visas seems to be on a rise.

    According to thepienews.com, almost 80% of the Chinese students have returned home due to multiple factors: Visa issues (major factor), cultural differences, and better job opportunities back home. We can observe a similar trend for international students across.

    Worst case scenario: You don’t obtain the work visa and are left with no choice but to relocate to your country. It’s definitely heart-breaking and stressful. But, even in such cases, students find that their MBAs provide them with an upper hand in scouting for and finalizing opportunities!

    “I am making 30% more than some of my colleagues because of my MBA and that’s what keeps me going and makes me want to stay in India”, says Subhash.

4. Way forward in the COVID era

    We can’t disregard the damage COVID has done over the past year. While considering pursuing an MBA, it is crucial to understand if the pandemic will alter the MBA experience. If yes, are you okay with the changes?

    To better understand your readiness, it’s important to have clear expectations from the program! Do you have clarity in the whats and whys of choosing an MBA? Answering these questions will decide if an MBA will prove to be useful or not.

    “If you are solely looking at an immediate industry or a function shift, then the effects of COVID don’t matter. However, if you are someone looking to interact with different people and have the whole MBA experience as is, then the Covid world’s opportunities might prove to be limited. ”, says Arya

However we see, MBA comes out as the winner. MBA isn’t just an allegory of every quixotic attempt we make to manage the crashes of our professional lives- It definitely offers a lot more. However, given that there’s a lot of investment involved, with the right research and understanding of fitment, you can make the most out of your MBAs:

  • Understand your whys and whats
  • Understand your target schools and what they offer
  • Understand if you can thrive in that particular school’s environment

“I also feel that a lot of what you get from your MBA depends on where you study.”, explains Luis, “For example, NYU Stern is extremely competitive and full of opportunities. UCLA Anderson, on the flip side, is laid back just like California. So, if one is very ambitious, one shouldn’t choose such a school or a lower-ranked school.”

To conclude, I firmly believe that MBAs are worthy. The only admonition is to be totally aware of the opportunities and possible hurdles beforehand. Without an iota of doubt, school selection (suiting one’s personality and asks) plays an important role in shaping the experience during and post-MBA.

Do let me know if this is something you’d want me to delve deeper into to understand who can thrive in a particular school and who might find it overwhelming!

Thanks for reading,
Anupama :heart


Fantastic article Anupamakashyap97!

This is a theme that applicants just don't think about enough. Sometimes, the challenges for internationals can be vastly different from those for other students. While the STEM OPTs (and the fact that most top MBA programs have rushed to get STEM certified) have helped, sometimes international students are still left wondering - 'Am I taking this major/concentration ONLY to get STEM certified?'. It can be a tough question to answer for many, as the stakes are high.

Will look forward to your further perspectives and articles (and those of others on this thread) on this topic.
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Re: Is MBA really worth the $200K and 2 years? [#permalink]
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BhaveshGMAT wrote:
Great insights! More so coming from the real experiences of present students from different MBA programs. There is still hope and optimism in all the gloom and doom scenario.

My specific question is - if Indian students in abroad programs have to come back to India for whatever reasons, is not it prudent to go for top Indian programs such ISB PGP, IIM-A PGPX etc. ?

Thanks!


Yes BhaveshGMAT, that is a very relevant question. Possibly, when they first set out, they planned to work in the US and gain some experience first before (or if) they returned to India. Not all students face the challenge of having to return home, though. Opting for Indian programs only right from the beginning may put paid to the global ambitions of many students.

Just our thoughts, would love to hear your opinions as well.
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BankerBro wrote:
Great article... Very much helps in clearing a lot of doubts of aspirants..
But it would have been better if you could share a few tips about how these people are repaying their $200,000 loans with their salaries in their home countries.
I can understand privacy concerns, but it can be shared in a generalised way as tips in bullet points without mentioning anyone's name. Or can also be shared as specific case studies.
Student Loans add to long term liabilities and remains a headache until repaid. A few tips can really help a lot of students in further clarification.

Posted from my mobile device


Very relevant point. Paying off that loan on emerging market salaries would be very challenging.
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Re: Is MBA really worth the $200K and 2 years? [#permalink]
GyanOne wrote:
Anupamakashyap97 wrote:
Despite visa issues and sparse opportunities, are students defending their MBAs?


“As much as possible, avoid hiring MBAs. MBA programs don’t teach people how to create companies. MBA Graduates may be good at PowerPoint but they don’t know how things work!” (Elon Musk, Tesla)



Recently, Elon Musk, the entrepreneurial god, went on record to say that MBAs parachute their way in instead of working their way up, leading to complete unawareness of building companies.

Though this revelation adds to the already ongoing existential crisis of young professionals, “To MBA, or not to MBA”, the debate isn’t newfound.

And we know - MBAs aren’t easy! Even getting into an MBA program entails multiple GMAT mocks, attempts, and retakes, edits, and re-edits of essays, LORs, achievements, video essays…. the list goes on! Applicants truly put in their blood, sweat, and tears to finally secure an admit from one of their choice schools.

However, the gruesome journey seldom ends with getting an admit! One just gets promoted from a rat race to another and it all begins again with the start of the program: academics, post MBA career, networking, assignments, internships, projects, case competitions, exams! IT IS A LOT OF WORK…

Now, especially, with COVID taking over the world by a storm and changing the business landscape overnight, many have realized just how archaic business education is! The age-old case studies aren’t cutting it anymore! It’s all about adaptability, rigor, and learning on the job; in real-time!

And, with the rising takeover of online education, MBA graduates might be found battling it out with candidates who’ve been working & learning every day and not playing ice-breakers at mixers on ZOOM for two years!

In such times, is an MBA a squander of resources- Time, Money, and Opportunities? Or does an MBA offer much more than case studies and networking?

To find out, we spoke to MBA alums from schools across who are putting their degree to good use (or not) in their current roles.

Luis (name changed), UCLA Anderson Alum, is currently working at a freight company in operational excellence. Arya finished her MBA from NUS, Singapore, and is currently working with Loreal as a Brand Manager. Subhash pursued his MBA from Purdue University- Krannert School of Management and is now working as an engineering manager at Altimetrik.

Read on to know more about what they have to say!


1. Reasons

    Though a behemoth task to decide on pursuing an MBA, each applicant has strong reasons to back up their decision. We all aspire for a better future, better career, better pay! And getting an MBA from a top-notch school inches one closer to the dream!

    “I wanted to build my network with peers across the world and subsequently land a job in Microsoft or Google,” states Luis

    And sequentially, reasons tend to hover around our aspirations.
    Our interviewees too had similar reasons to pursue an MBA. They fall under three broad buckets:
    • Opportunities: Candidates seek out better job/life opportunities and believe that securing an MBA is one way to achieve that.
    • Network: Building a strong network can help not just in your prof life but also in your personal life. Many candidates have claimed that an MBA has given them a safe space to be vulnerable and grow. Often, you end up finding a place where you belong amongst those long hours of case competitions, exam prep, interview prep, etc
    • A shift in function/sector: Most candidates looking to shift from a technical role to a more strategic/business role prefer to do an MBA rather than starting again at the bottom. Thus, allowing students to gain the knowledge and skills required for their future careers.

    In addition to obtaining functional knowledge and upskilling myself, I wanted to gain a wholesome understanding of businesses in general and identify my niche”, says Arya.


2. Realizations

    We’ve established that it takes a lot of work to get into an MBA program. What warrants a thought is the expectations students go in with. An MBA is almost like one’s teenage relationship. A relationship, between the school and the student, in which you have your assumptions and then you realize the realities. The realities often tend to be harsh, in both scenarios.

    However, our interviewees had mixed opinions. While Arya found the MBA ticked all of her expectations, we saw that Luis and Subhash were disappointed initially. Digging deep, this discrepancy was found to have occurred because of one of two reasons:
    • Lack of clarity: If you aren’t aware of why you’re choosing to do an MBA and what you wish to gain at the end of the program, you will not be able to effectively make the best out of the opportunities. This may lead to feeling frustrated and left behind!
    • School selection: MBAs across help gain sectoral and functional knowledge. We all know that that’s not enough. You need to go deep and do a lot of self-learning as MBA provides super condensed knowledge in a very short time. So, if you are overwhelmed by the school and fail to make the best of the opportunities, MBA will just act as your stamp of quality, which might help you get a job, however, will not help you scale/grow! Hence, it’s crucial to understand your fit!

    Implications of having no clarity on expectations and school fit: We all know that getting opportunities as an international student is tedious and emotionally draining. The hustle has been normalized and glorified. But, it’s not always so bad. The experience itself might teach one a lot about handling high-pressure situations and dealing with ambiguity that is crucial for any leadership position! MBAs aren’t really just about case studies and networking. It also provides one with ample opportunities to explore and understand oneself! Hence, despite the discrepancy in expectations, candidates are on average satisfied with their MBA journey. [Source]

    “I expected big firms to recruit on-campus with multiple choices, however, the reality was nowhere near.” explains Luis, “ I had to go out there and hustle to even receive a callback. It is all the more stressful as an international student. But I’d have to say that wrestling it out for a callback, in hindsight, has proved to be a great learning experience. I gained a lot of time management & organizational skills, and a chance to dig deep & reflect on my journey to truly understand my core competencies and aspirations. This understanding equipped me to bag interviews with Amazon, Google, and Facebook!”


3. Repercussions

    MBAs have existed for a long time, a century-long! It’s not just because of its glam and fame. Our interviewees too agreed-- MBAs are helpful. Be it in getting that edge over other employees without an MBA or in communicating more structurally and effectively.

    So, what does an MBA truly help with other than the promised high-worth network and super intense knowledge about the biz world? Few answers based on our interviewees’ experience involves,
    • Upskilling: Sharpening and honing relevant life skills, not restricted to just communication, organization, and problem-solving, but also skills such as perspective thinking, building meaningful relationships, stress management, and psychological competency. This myriad of skills has proven to help students tackle their professional as well as personal challenges effectively.
    • Cross-functional understanding: An MBA doesn’t operate in silos of the subjects. Case-study competitions, in-house projects, and numerous on and off-campus discussions provide students with a zoomed-out lens of the working of businesses, aiding cross-functional thinking in current roles.
    • MBA ecosystem: If you’re an international student, especially, the MBA journey can prove to be enriching- one gets to experience different cultures and ethnicities, challenging their perceptions and aiding their growth.

    However, there is a caveat. it can be challenging to find opportunities, and once found, obtain the work visa (H-1B).

    “To some extent, MBA helped in my professional growth, but the problem is that my H1B didn’t get picked in the lottery in the US because of which I couldn’t land in better offers and thereby attain more growth. I had to relocate to India", says Subhash.

    The number of students who have had to relocate back to their country due to the non-availability of work visas seems to be on a rise.

    According to thepienews.com, almost 80% of the Chinese students have returned home due to multiple factors: Visa issues (major factor), cultural differences, and better job opportunities back home. We can observe a similar trend for international students across.

    Worst case scenario: You don’t obtain the work visa and are left with no choice but to relocate to your country. It’s definitely heart-breaking and stressful. But, even in such cases, students find that their MBAs provide them with an upper hand in scouting for and finalizing opportunities!

    “I am making 30% more than some of my colleagues because of my MBA and that’s what keeps me going and makes me want to stay in India”, says Subhash.

4. Way forward in the COVID era

    We can’t disregard the damage COVID has done over the past year. While considering pursuing an MBA, it is crucial to understand if the pandemic will alter the MBA experience. If yes, are you okay with the changes?

    To better understand your readiness, it’s important to have clear expectations from the program! Do you have clarity in the whats and whys of choosing an MBA? Answering these questions will decide if an MBA will prove to be useful or not.

    “If you are solely looking at an immediate industry or a function shift, then the effects of COVID don’t matter. However, if you are someone looking to interact with different people and have the whole MBA experience as is, then the Covid world’s opportunities might prove to be limited. ”, says Arya

However we see, MBA comes out as the winner. MBA isn’t just an allegory of every quixotic attempt we make to manage the crashes of our professional lives- It definitely offers a lot more. However, given that there’s a lot of investment involved, with the right research and understanding of fitment, you can make the most out of your MBAs:

  • Understand your whys and whats
  • Understand your target schools and what they offer
  • Understand if you can thrive in that particular school’s environment

“I also feel that a lot of what you get from your MBA depends on where you study.”, explains Luis, “For example, NYU Stern is extremely competitive and full of opportunities. UCLA Anderson, on the flip side, is laid back just like California. So, if one is very ambitious, one shouldn’t choose such a school or a lower-ranked school.”

To conclude, I firmly believe that MBAs are worthy. The only admonition is to be totally aware of the opportunities and possible hurdles beforehand. Without an iota of doubt, school selection (suiting one’s personality and asks) plays an important role in shaping the experience during and post-MBA.

Do let me know if this is something you’d want me to delve deeper into to understand who can thrive in a particular school and who might find it overwhelming!

Thanks for reading,
Anupama :heart


Fantastic article Anupamakashyap97!

This is a theme that applicants just don't think about enough. Sometimes, the challenges for internationals can be vastly different from those for other students. While the STEM OPTs (and the fact that most top MBA programs have rushed to get STEM certified) have helped, sometimes international students are still left wondering - 'Am I taking this major/concentration ONLY to get STEM certified?'. It can be a tough question to answer for many, as the stakes are high.

Will look forward to your further perspectives and articles (and those of others on this thread) on this topic.



GyanOne, hi! Thanks for engaging with the article and providing your feedback. Appreciate it :)
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Is MBA really worth the $200K and 2 years? [#permalink]
QQ, is a STEM OPT extension applicable to any job? For example I'm interested in FLDP roles - will the STEM OPT extension apply in this case or only in specific jobs?
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Is MBA really worth the $200K and 2 years? [#permalink]
Anupamakashyap97, you've come up with a useful article. Thanks for it.

Quote:
However, our interviewees had mixed opinions. While Arya found the MBA ticked all of her expectations, we saw that Luis and Subhash were disappointed initially. Digging deep, this discrepancy was found to have occurred because of one of two reasons:

Lack of clarity: If you aren’t aware of why you’re choosing to do an MBA and what you wish to gain at the end of the program, you will not be able to effectively make the best out of the opportunities. This may lead to feeling frustrated and left behind!
School selection: MBAs across help gain sectoral and functional knowledge. We all know that that’s not enough. You need to go deep and do a lot of self-learning as MBA provides super condensed knowledge in a very short time. So, if you are overwhelmed by the school and fail to make the best of the opportunities, MBA will just act as your stamp of quality, which might help you get a job, however, will not help you scale/grow! Hence, it’s crucial to understand your fit!


While folks on this thread have raised some really important questions and have expressed their proposals for follow up articles related to them, I have one request of my own. With regards to the above quoted paragraph, I would like to know some of the difficult situations faced and realizations from them that these folks had because of lack of clarity about reasons for doing MBA and mistakes made in selecting the school on their part. I think those who are aspiring to get into business schools can learn a lot from the oversights of the current students on such matters.
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Re: Is MBA really worth the $200K and 2 years? [#permalink]
Hello from the GMAT Club MBAbot!

Thanks to another GMAT Club member, I have just discovered this valuable topic, yet it had no discussion for over a year. I am now bumping it up - doing my job. I think you may find it valuable (esp those replies with Kudos).

Want to see all other topics I dig out? Follow me (click follow button on profile). You will receive a summary of all topics I bump in your profile area as well as via email.
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Re: Is MBA really worth the $200K and 2 years? [#permalink]
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