Kryzak's Battle Royale 2: Haas vs Kellogg vs Anderson

LOL, rhyme has spoken, therefore I shall follow.

But aceman, kudos for the Asian insight. That's the kind of stuff that I only have a feel for (living in Asia in the past and having my Chinese and Taiwanese friends tell me which school's they've heard of there) until you and gary and toga chimed in. BCC, good info on SEA, I might end up there some day (I do love Thailand, and my friend who's there right now says Bangkok is as modern as Tokyo now, in the five years since I went last! )

Pre-wedding jitters? That's a good way to put it I guess. Just wanted to make sure my head not screwed on incorrectly and that I have thought every aspect through. You guys are wonderful, and I could not have gotten this far at all without all your help!!! (especially rhymes!)

So there are a lot of people still on the fence at Anderson. You should turn down your acceptance so that someone either on the wait list or in round 3 has a shot at getting in. Best of luck. Hopefully you can help the Haas team do a better job at their own case competition this coming year =)

Haha, yeah, I plan to do that.

Thanks for the good wishes, but I'm not sure I'll be doing any case competitions. Maybe business plan competitions.

I'm sure I'll be interacting with UCLA a lot in any of the competitions since Haas and Anderson participate in many of the same competitions out there.

Kry stop wasting our time and just go to Haas haha. I may need a cali network in a few years and there are enough clubbers at Kellogg already we wont really miss you there at all.

https://www.playconference.org/case.html is the competition I am talking about. Business plan competitions are fun, not sure how many Haas and Anderson actually compete against each other in. There is always C4C weekend but Haas is not that good at sports =)

ouch, I'm hurt.

Ahh, the play conference, I just might participate then. Maybe win one for Haas, haha.

Yeah, Berkeley and sports don't really go that well together, other than our rugby team...

So is it a done deal? Are you official? Can you take this oath:

I, Kryzak, solemnly commit to the end the b-school application. I will release my places at other schools, thereby more quickly ending my fellow applicants' stay in waitlist purgatory. I know my true place is the b-school life forum, and I am ready to move on. Therefore, I, Kryzak, now make known my matriculation to UC Berkeley. Amen.

Well, Anderson is a done deal. I will release my spot next week. Unfortunately, Haas vs Kellogg is not a done deal yet. I cannot honestly pick a school and be ok with it until I've been to both admit weekends (I've already been to the Anderson admit weekend). I'm ready to move on, no, I'm *dying* to move on, but cannot.

I will take that oath the last week of April, you wait for it, Aau.

I voted Kellogg. Similar reasons to what most of the Kellogg proponents have written down -

1) M7
2) Change of scenery
3) Better worldwide brand name (certainly in India)
4) Bigger class => more potential things to do
5) Big and prestigious scholarship
6) Kellogg is not all soft and fluffy. I have been told my many current students and alumni that its finance program is highly underrated. Finance classes (high rigor) are better than marketing (need to talk to more people about this)
7) I just got into Kellogg
8) Too many votes for Haas. I hope there is no gmatclub 'pressure' for you to go to Haas:)

I hope Kellogg has a great DAK2 and makes it easy for you...

Hey ujjib,

I LOVED the two reasons. For #6, I actually *like* Kellogg because it's soft and fluffy. Same reason I like Stanford and in some part, Haas. I want to learn the interpersonal stuff, since the academics can be learned pretty straightforward-ly. Maybe that's just the engineer in me speaking, but I like schools that focus on the soft skills. Too many leaders these days do not have those necessary skills to get people to follow you, willingly.

I've already assumed you were my fellow conspirator at Haas. I think we should meet over beer instead of coffee this Sunday...it will be easier to convince you

yes, I would love to hear your thoughts on this over coffee (can't drink alcohol - see other thread )

i voted kellogg. i like cal (like you, i went there for my undergrad) but like it or not, there is a difference between state schools and private schools.

i'm generalizing here and it's a little difficult to explain but the people who graduate from a private school definitely walk around with the attitude that they are part of a special members-only club and the only way in is if you graduated from their school. state school people are generally pretty grounded and down to earth. being grounded and down to earth is a good thing usually but not really when it comes to networking, building up connections, etc.

if you graduate from haas, chances are maybe 50/50 that you will work your next job because of a classmate or alumni. if you graduate from kellogg, i would say that it's more like 80%+ that you will be working every job through an alumni connection or a classmate connection. the alumni network is just tighter in the state schools. state school people are used to fending for themselves and not seeking help because when you go to Cal as an undergrad, no professor cares about you and no one in any office (e.g. financial aid) cares about you. you have to become independent and learn to take care of yourself among a huge student body. private schools let you "shop" for classes, talk to professors about your special situations, etc.

i know grad school is different from undergrad, but i have never even come close to having the opportunity to help a fellow Cal grad nor have i ever received help from a Cal grad. my friends who graduated undergrad from Harvard, Stanfurd, and MIT all reap the benefits of their alumni networks and those are just from undergrad. when they have job openings, they seek to fill them with their own graduates first. as a Cal grad, i just seek to find the best person for the job regardless of whether the candidate went to Cal or not. it's just the way Cal grads were brought up.

you already have Cal on your resume, i'd say go for a top private school like Kellogg. even if you stay in northern california, i think your Kellogg MBA and Cal undergrad will take you further than a Haas MBA and Cal undergrad.

just my 2 cents...go bears!

RVD.

RVD, I agree with your assessment of Cal Undergrad, but grad school is QUITE different, especially the professional schools like Business and Law. At Cal undergrad, there is definitely a "survival" instinct that you need to have, and you never have that sense of "entitlement" that people from private schools have (which I actually don't like at all). Just because cal grads are "down to earth and grounded" does not equal "not good at networking and building connections." I understand that you may not have found any jobs through Cal grads or have helped any Cal grads find jobs, but everyone's situation is different. I've helped numerous cal engineering grads find jobs at my company, and pretty much formed a professional link between the company and the student org that I belonged to. Maybe it's different for engineering folks, who has a slightly more 'personalized' education than L&S (which I agree, has sh*tty support and you're left to fend for yourself. I had many L&S friends who had the same experience), but I can definitely see Cal grads I know helping each other out with jobs in the Silicon Valley and startups. Like you said, you are probably on one side of the coin and I'm on the other (50/50).

Now to business school, where the "public school" mentality is even more removed. I am quite certain that Haas, Anderson, Ross, and Darden did not get to their "top schools" status by providing services like a public school. Each school has their own endowment (Darden and Ross actually has *quite* a bit of money, rivaling some private schools), allowing them to do their own thing in terms of fellowships, grants, scholarships, hiring top staff and professors, etc... Just look at Ross, who's providing a lot of very good scholarships to their students and supporting them left and right in their job searches. At Haas, the staff is dedicated to helping students find the jobs of their dreams and build the skills they need to get those jobs. Just from talking to a few career center people and students, I already feel the support that they provide. I can only imagine what it's like when I'm a student there. Now with Haas and Anderson being able to charge more tuition to help with their endowment and program funds, I will only expect the support to increase.

Granted, most private schools will have programs such as KWEST, partner benefits, and other "perks" due to a larger endowment, but those are "fluff" reasons for choosing business schools and should not be seriously considered. I am well aware of the pitfalls of public schools (being a Cal grad myself) and would never pick a school if the support is equivalent of what the undergraduates receive. But fortunately for me, Haas (and other public b-schools) is not like that. The Haas alumni connection is VERY strong, if not stronger than most UEs (except for maybe Kellogg and Stanford). Every Haas alum I've spoken with (and the students who contacted them told me) have been super responsive and will help the current students out at the drop of a pin. Even CEO level Haas alums will respond to a Haas students' inquiry and plan a meeting with the student (happened to a couple students already). If that doesn't sound like the "private school" treatment to me, I don't know what will.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I understand what you're saying about public vs private and I thank you for your 2 cents, but I don't think you fully understand the support that Public business schools alums provide to the students (maybe because you were looking into EMBA programs, which is a different beast altogether and I know nothing about). It's not even comparable to the undergrad experience.

Though I have heard that the BC EMBA program people are treated like royalty (since EMBAs are the cash cows of b-schools) just like the Wharton West program. Oh yeah, and BTW, I have a friend currently in Wharton West (just got in last year), so you may bump into him sometime if the different classes mingle.

One more thing, I don't have just Haas grad and Cal Undergrad on my resume, I do have that "other" private school's network to leverage from too.

GO BEARS!

Alright, after spending almost 2 hours working on the Anderson declining admission letter, I finally hit submit this morning. It was as tough as clicking the submit button when applying to schools. Hopefully they'll find my comments and constructive criticisms useful and know that my "love" for Anderson has not been diminished. In the end, when you have to pick between three great schools that all provide you with great opportunities, the very minor things start to matter.

In a way, this is a slight relief from the stresses of making my final decision, and hopefully it'll open up a door (and $$) for some other qualified applicant in R3 or on the W/L (Avi, I'm rooting for you).

I'll still be involved with Anderson stuff here on GMATClub, so consider me an unofficial "ambassador" if you like.

Cheers!
K.

hm...Cal undergrad alum network is definitely not comparible to Harvard, Princeton, MIT, etc. Altho I have to point out a few things:

1) The majority of Cal undergrad alums tend to stay in Cali, hence there are TONS of Cal people there. When there are so many, its hard for people to hook eachother up. I mean why hook up Cal grad 1 as opposed to Cal grad 2 or 1000 other Cal grads? Most Cal grads end up competing against one another anyway (and maybe Stanford). So at the end of the day its the best person who gets the job, and Cal grads generally do fine in that aspect.

2) The Haas school is run like a private institution within the public university. I know that Haas people think of themselves as "elite" and have their own network. This is even more pronounced in the MBA program. From what i heard the MBA network is pretty strong.

3) I know that in places where there are less Cal folks but still a significant presence, such as east coast, international, etc, the alum clubs are pretty active.

4) Out of the public schools, Berkeley has a relatively strong network. The administration is also working hard to develop this aspect as well.

so in conslusion i would say that with Kellogg you get a smaller, stronger network but in consulting/marketing. whereas with Haas you get a broader, slighlty weaker network but probably still has the edge in sheer numbers in relevent industries and locations.