Last visit was: 19 Nov 2025, 17:22 It is currently 19 Nov 2025, 17:22
Home
GMAT
Messages
Tests
Schools
Events
Rewards
Chat
My Profile
Close
GMAT Club Daily Prep
Thank you for using the timer - this advanced tool can estimate your performance and suggest more practice questions. We have subscribed you to Daily Prep Questions via email.

Customized
for You

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History

Track
Your Progress

every week, we’ll send you an estimated GMAT score based on your performance

Practice
Pays

we will pick new questions that match your level based on your Timer History
Not interested in getting valuable practice questions and articles delivered to your email? No problem, unsubscribe here.
Go to My Error Log Learn more
Close
Request Expert Reply
Confirm Cancel
User avatar
kwam
User avatar
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Last visit: 19 Oct 2013
Posts: 1,018
Own Kudos:
167
Given Kudos: 3
Location: New York, NY
Concentration: Analytic Finance, Economics and Strategic Management
Schools:Chicago Booth Class of 2010
Posts: 1,018
Kudos: 167
MBA worth it? 02 Aug 2007, 15:40
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
lepium


Yet the MBA degree is one of the less intellectually challenging (at least on the type of intellect I assume he is measuring). How many MBAs go into research? That's what PhDs are for!

MBAs learn some basics which they may need at some point, but most importantly, they refine the elusive art of working (and leading) effectively in complex global organizations.

L.
Show more


That's exactly why sometimes I do still question myself: "Wouldn't be better for me to do an MS in Finance as I want to stay in Sales/Trading business?"

And my answer is: no I want an MBA, because I can go through the "soft" path and still specialize within the topics on finance I want: Credit Derivatives, Fixed Income market, Economics, etc...

Off course this is something related to my aspirations, nevertheless, that's with everybody. I need to develop some skills that off course I can by myself but I do think it will take way much longer that way.


Regarding the piece of cake MBA stuff, I know that MIT, Wharton, Darden, Chicago and Columbia first terms are not easy by some friends who atented these schools, specially for international students and even more in those participative classes for those who still are not "like native" english speakers. I friend of mine from college told me: It was hard but not as hard as in college, but come on, we did Telecommunications engineering, what else could be harder? :lol:
User avatar
kryzak
User avatar
Major Poster
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Last visit: 10 Aug 2013
Posts: 5,452
Own Kudos:
744
Given Kudos: 14
Status:Um... what do you want to know?
Location: SF, CA, USA
Concentration: Technology, Entrepreneurship, Digital Media & Entertainment
Schools:UC Berkeley Haas School of Business MBA 2010
GPA: 3.9 - undergrad 3.6 - grad-EE
WE 1: Social Gaming
Posts: 5,452
Kudos: 744
MBA worth it? 02 Aug 2007, 16:02
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
haha, here here... telecomm theory just became theoretical math after a while...
User avatar
grad_mba
User avatar
Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Last visit: 24 May 2011
Posts: 350
Own Kudos:
579
Schools:MIT Sloan
Posts: 350
Kudos: 579
MBA worth it? 04 Aug 2007, 23:05
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
It is indeed a popular perception that certain attributes such as leadership / team orientation / business acumen et al cannot be 'taught' per say but they are the natural outcome of people blessed with such traits. Another parallel - not all CEOs / people running major business houses have MBAs - well no arguments against statistics and there is indeed some truth in the above statements.

Lets take a glimpse of the practical scenario - how many times have the empty claims in the line of "i have tremendous leadership abilities", "ah -my astute business acumen can turn tables of even the most dead beat corporations" have helped a lay man [lack of formal business education] break into any corporate management role ?

But then again, the same person, stamped with a MBA, can pretty much walk into any of managerial roles with the same corporations !

so it pretty much sums up that out in the wide world - irrespective of the perceptions - MBA still holds value - employers relate to it - it acts like a statement ratifying your abilities - irrespective of whether you were christened with those 'leadership' / 'managerial thinking' through the MBA program to begin with!

Maybe MBA will for sure lose its lusture when a time arises when an engineer with no formal management education is welcomed to don roles in corporate strategy just based on his sharp engineering intellect and anaytical skills !
User avatar
seanpatin
User avatar
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Last visit: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 96
Own Kudos:
3
Posts: 96
Kudos: 3
MBA worth it? 05 Aug 2007, 01:32
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
One trend that I think will continue is the number of MBA holders running S&P/Fortune or other large companies. Right now a lot of them are controlled by non-degree or at least non-grad degree holders, but I think in the modern era, the trend will turn towards MBA students by a large margin.

But, I also think that as has been said, the number of programs does take away some of the luster. Due to this, I think the school that you attend may become an even more important factor than it currently is!
User avatar
aurobindo
User avatar
Joined: 02 Dec 2006
Last visit: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 562
Own Kudos:
523
Given Kudos: 4
Affiliations: FRM Charter holder
Concentration: Finance, Entrepreneurship
Schools:Stanford, Chicago Booth, Babson College
GPA: 3.53
Posts: 562
Kudos: 523
MBA worth it? 05 Aug 2007, 03:41
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
seanpatin
I think the school that you attend may become an even more important factor than it currently is!
Show more


Agree with this point. I worked in an organization that pumps out at least 3,000 full-time MBAs and many more part-time MBAs every year. Unfortunately, this school is not an isolated example. Liberalization has its own drawbacks. Quality is a bas..d. No body cares.

The school collects huge fees, compared to the usual fees in the market, and provides a bit of flashy education. Hardly 10% of the total students come out of this school as well equipped MBAs. Remaining all have only stamp.

How does this matter to us? It matters because all these thousands of guys with just certificates dilute the quality of MBA value in general.

What would employers do to avoid getting half-baked MBAs? They would look for the source of the product. Reputation of the school can become much more important in future.
User avatar
johnnyx9
User avatar
Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Last visit: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 958
Own Kudos:
100
Posts: 958
Kudos: 100
MBA worth it? 05 Aug 2007, 08:31
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
When people point to the fact that non-MBA's are running Fortune 500 companies, this doesn't at all imply what people think it implies.

Think about how old the people who are running these companies are. If you're a 60 year old CEO running ACME Corp., what was the corporate climate like when you started working as a 21 year old fresh out of undergrad? Well 39 years ago just having a bachelor's degree meant a lot more than it does today when seemingly everyone has a bachelor's degree. So the fact that a non-MBA is the CEO of a huge company doesn't say anything about the MBA credential.

If I can continue to rant for a few minutes here, some other common arguments with faulty logic that need to be dispelled:

1. The fact that Bill Gates dropped out of college does NOT mean that everyone should drop out of college.

2. When people who work for themselves (i.e., own their own company) talk about how they can't believe people would choose to work for "the man" rather than just start their own business, they're ignoring the fact that most entrepreneurial ventures fail and they probably just got lucky.

3. The fact that someone with an MBA from Tuscaloosa State University is running a Fortune 500 company does not at all prove that it doesn't matter what business school you go to.
User avatar
mNeo
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Last visit: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 1,034
Own Kudos:
30
Posts: 1,034
Kudos: 30
MBA worth it? 05 Aug 2007, 10:03
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
johnnyx9

1. The fact that Bill Gates dropped out of college does NOT mean that everyone should drop out of college.

3. The fact that someone with an MBA from Tuscaloosa State University is running a Fortune 500 company does not at all prove that it doesn't matter what business school you go to.
Show more


Exactly !! Every time people give examples of Gates or some MBA from Tuscaloosa, they forget that these are one off (or two/ten/twenty off) cases. For every Gates, there are millions of Americans who dropped out of college and are now sitting on a major intersection with a "Will work for food" sign. For every CEO from Tuscaloosa, there are thousands who are fighting for just about any type of white-collar job.
User avatar
seanpatin
User avatar
Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Last visit: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 96
Own Kudos:
3
Posts: 96
Kudos: 3
MBA worth it? 05 Aug 2007, 10:40
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Quote:
When people point to the fact that non-MBA's are running Fortune 500 companies, this doesn't at all imply what people think it implies.

Think about how old the people who are running these companies are. If you're a 60 year old CEO running ACME Corp., what was the corporate climate like when you started working as a 21 year old fresh out of undergrad? Well 39 years ago just having a bachelor's degree meant a lot more than it does today when seemingly everyone has a bachelor's degree. So the fact that a non-MBA is the CEO of a huge company doesn't say anything about the MBA credential.

If I can continue to rant for a few minutes here, some other common arguments with faulty logic that need to be dispelled:

1. The fact that Bill Gates dropped out of college does NOT mean that everyone should drop out of college.
Show more


I should elaborate on what I was attempting to say. When the companies which are the leaders in the world today, were created and started, the world was very different as you said and an MBA was a very rare honor. That is what I had actually intended to specify, and what I think. But, this is also where I see the MBA making itself more prevalent in the corporate world today, because now it will almost be seen as a requirement in many cases, whereas before barely anyone felt the need to get one.
User avatar
johnnyx9
User avatar
Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Last visit: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 958
Own Kudos:
100
Posts: 958
Kudos: 100
MBA worth it? 06 Aug 2007, 19:01
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Seanpatin - I was actually agreeing with you, although I probably wasn't very articulate because I got all excited about my rant.
User avatar
rhyme
User avatar
Major Poster
Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Last visit: 02 Dec 2024
Posts: 5,909
Own Kudos:
3,172
Given Kudos: 7
Affiliations: HHonors Diamond, BGS Honor Society
Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2009
GMAT 1: 730 Q45 V45
WE:Business Development (Consumer Packaged Goods)
Schools: Chicago (Booth) - Class of 2009
GMAT 1: 730 Q45 V45
Posts: 5,909
Kudos: 3,172
MBA worth it? 06 Aug 2007, 19:13
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
09App
kryzak
Does Chicago have grade non-disclosure agreement?

Yes, and the students that wrote it did so in a way that's pretty much impossible to overturn.

Which begs the question -- if grades don't matter, what is Rhyme doing studying the syllabus for his fall stats class during his last few weeks of freedom?
Show more


Three reasons.

1) Grade non disclosure comes up for a vote every year. Though I doubt it will go away, theres always a chance.

2) There is a forced curve at the GSB. So, GND or not, you can still do badly and in order to have a class count towards a major you need a C or better I believe.

3) Seems like a way to help alleviate what I imagine will be a very hard first quarter
User avatar
mNeo
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Last visit: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 1,034
Own Kudos:
30
Posts: 1,034
Kudos: 30
MBA worth it? 06 Aug 2007, 20:08
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
welcome back, rhyme
avatar
09App
avatar
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Last visit: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 60
Posts: 60
Kudos: 0
MBA worth it? 08 Aug 2007, 23:22
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
piper41955
Rhyme is making his own life easier by getting some of the material out of the way early so he isn't quite as overloaded during fall semester. Beyond that, you are paying good money for a high end school, why waste it learning the basics when you could reap so much more from using the time to focus on advanced concepts.
Show more


Agree, I was being a bit sarcastic there. I respect the work ethic, and wish i could get in gear and do the same right now but it's not happening.
User avatar
mNeo
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Last visit: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 1,034
Own Kudos:
30
Posts: 1,034
Kudos: 30
MBA worth it? 12 Aug 2007, 15:48
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
The Columbia applicants might have read an article by Stanford's Jeffrey Pfeffer, "The End of Business Schools? Less Success Than Meets the Eye". It's a very interesting read that questions value of an MBA education - https://www.aomonline.org/Publications/A ... chools.asp

A quote:
Quote:
"I have never found benefits for the MBA degree--usually it just makes you a couple of years older than non-MBA peers" (Burt, personal communication, Nov. 26, 2001)
Show more


I think that this is a good food for thought that can help us further solidify our "Why MBA" points. ps. Wow, I am hoping to get something positive from arguable the most popular anti-MBA article. Aren't I optimistic ! :)
User avatar
ncp
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Last visit: 13 Feb 2023
Posts: 1,414
Own Kudos:
325
Given Kudos: 1
Location: Ann Arbor
Concentration: Health Care Marketing
Schools:Ross '10
Posts: 1,414
Kudos: 325
MBA worth it? 12 Aug 2007, 16:39
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Another book that criticizes MBA education, as prevalent in the US, is "Managers not MBAs" by Mintzberg.

It is a good read and has some valid arguments against MBA as taught in schools today.
User avatar
mNeo
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Last visit: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 1,034
Own Kudos:
30
Posts: 1,034
Kudos: 30
MBA worth it? 12 Aug 2007, 17:00
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Mintzberg and his approach were mentioned in both, Jeffrey Pfeffer's and Glenn Hubbard's articles too.
User avatar
kryzak
User avatar
Major Poster
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Last visit: 10 Aug 2013
Posts: 5,452
Own Kudos:
744
Given Kudos: 14
Status:Um... what do you want to know?
Location: SF, CA, USA
Concentration: Technology, Entrepreneurship, Digital Media & Entertainment
Schools:UC Berkeley Haas School of Business MBA 2010
GPA: 3.9 - undergrad 3.6 - grad-EE
WE 1: Social Gaming
Posts: 5,452
Kudos: 744
MBA worth it? 12 Aug 2007, 18:59
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
hrm... that's not too encouraging for people like us who are applying right now...
User avatar
jamesrwrightiii
User avatar
Joined: 02 May 2004
Last visit: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 268
Own Kudos:
17
Posts: 268
Kudos: 17
MBA worth it? 12 Aug 2007, 21:54
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Or to those that are admitted and spending the money..wow
User avatar
kryzak
User avatar
Major Poster
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Last visit: 10 Aug 2013
Posts: 5,452
Own Kudos:
744
Given Kudos: 14
Status:Um... what do you want to know?
Location: SF, CA, USA
Concentration: Technology, Entrepreneurship, Digital Media & Entertainment
Schools:UC Berkeley Haas School of Business MBA 2010
GPA: 3.9 - undergrad 3.6 - grad-EE
WE 1: Social Gaming
Posts: 5,452
Kudos: 744
MBA worth it? 12 Aug 2007, 22:12
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
actually, I read through the entire thing, and the points it brings up are pretty valid. It's trying to show that just learning the technical skills (finance, marketing, accounting, etc...) and required classes do not a CEO make. If you're going to a b-school just for those skills, you're probably better off doing the 3-week in house consulting training, your company's leadership development program, or taking some classes at a local school/university.

The article does mention that at the elite schools, the degree still brings lots of salary, career, and promotion possibilities, but mainly because the people who get in are already very top notch, and you make very good connections with your class and the alumni of that school. In the end, I think the technical skills are great to learn, but to really get the most out of b-school, one should focus on the networking, learning the "soft skills" of being a leader (communications, people skills, resolving conflicts, etc...), and gaining as much "real life" experience as possible through competitions, projects, internships, and programs like that.

I believe campuses like Stanford and Haas are adding classes that simulate the "real world" better these days (the article was written in 2002 if I am not mistaken), and I did read an article in 2005 or 2006 in Business Week about B-schools trying to change their curriculum to avoid being "irrelevant". From the infosessions I've seen so far, I think they are doing a much better job at creating real managers than before.

Thus, I've re-confirmed my desire to go for an MBA, as I believe I'm going for pretty good reasons... :)
User avatar
mNeo
User avatar
Current Student
Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Last visit: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 1,034
Own Kudos:
30
Posts: 1,034
Kudos: 30
MBA worth it? 12 Aug 2007, 22:35
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
Yeah, it is an interesting article, with some very valid points (You may also want to read an article in the Business+Strategy magazine, "What Business needs from Business Schools" written by some people from Booz Allen Hamilton). But we need to keep in mind that Jeffrey is an educator. Perhaps his interests lie in trying to provide us the best possible education only.

Our interests lie in getting the best possible education, getting a great network for future, getting exposure, showing our possible employers that we're top notch (That's why top B schools chose us), and / or gaining confidence for and learning other aspects of entrepreneurship. So, read this article, not to get discouraged, but to create a more informed and realistic expectation from your future MBA program.

ps. Most of the criticism seems to be on B school's lack of focus on building soft-skills of the students (Specially leadership and collaboration). But that doesn't mean that we can't try a little harder and build those skills ourselves while at school.
User avatar
kryzak
User avatar
Major Poster
Joined: 04 Jun 2007
Last visit: 10 Aug 2013
Posts: 5,452
Own Kudos:
744
Given Kudos: 14
Status:Um... what do you want to know?
Location: SF, CA, USA
Concentration: Technology, Entrepreneurship, Digital Media & Entertainment
Schools:UC Berkeley Haas School of Business MBA 2010
GPA: 3.9 - undergrad 3.6 - grad-EE
WE 1: Social Gaming
Posts: 5,452
Kudos: 744
MBA worth it? 12 Aug 2007, 22:43
Kudos
Add Kudos
Bookmarks
Bookmark this Post
here here, mNeo! Actually Stanford's program is huge on soft-skills according to the alumnus I talked to. He said it was the key reason for his success after b-school.

I'm definitely not discouraged after reading the entire article. In fact, like you said, I understand the reason why I'm applying even more now. =)
   1   2   3